<p>“Wow, talk about self-referential nerdfests. It’s like Big Bang Theory come to life. Do these people realize that no one other than themselves care about any of this stuff, that we just want our computers to turn on and work for us? Or do they actually think they come across as cool?”</p>
<p>Actually, I don’t think they care one bit what we think. They care about the other nerds in the nerdfests. You and I, and the other know-nothing muggles are irrelevant.</p>
<p>cobrat,</p>
<p>To add more nerdy stuff to your list, since you have mentioned SGI, you may as well mention the company MIPS like their R2000, R3000, R4000, etc., and how John L, Hennessy at Stanford started the heated discussions/shout of pros and cons of RISC vs CISC architectures, and how the compiler for their computer had been developed before their processor hardware came to exist. A half generation of computer engineering students were learning this somewhat overhyped RISC architecture back then.</p>
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<p>No. They feel the mentality is proof positive one aren’t nearly as intelligent as “geniuses” like themselves…ROTFLOL!</p>
<p>The hardcore among the engineering/CS folks I knew or hungout/worked with believed anyone who wasn’t bowing down/proficient to the mighty command-line interface of Unix/Linux type of operating systems were “too dumb to use a computer.” Hence, their contempt for folks who used Apple OS before 2001, Microsoft Windows,…or even folks using more user-friendly versions of linux like Redhat(Fedora)/Mint/Ubuntu. Only difference were whether the “muggles” per Busdriver11 were artsy/creative types or “pointy-haired” MBAs/corporate “drones”. </p>
<p>In short…it’s a form of extreme self-referential elitism taken to ridiculous extremes. </p>
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<p>Yep…she’s got it! </p>
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<p>Here’s an old '90s era video which IMO…has only gotten more hilarious over time…especially after 2006:</p>
<p>[i</a> think were a clone now - YouTube](<a href=“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pY2kWyqdxOI]i”>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pY2kWyqdxOI)</p>
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When you reach a certain age, your eyesight is no longer what it used to be. The use of command-line interface really could give your aged eyes some break. The younger generation do not understand why the old generation sometimes prefer the command-line interface; one reason is that their eyesight can never be as good as that of a younger engineer. If they use the command-line interface, in the worst case scenario, they can make the window as large as the full screen. They can then see very clearly what they type.</p>
<p>One older engineer once had a presentation using some special application. The GUI on that application must be designed for younger engineers. Most buttons or dropped-down menu are tiny. At one time, he could not find the cursor on the projected screen. He apologized and asked the audience to wait a little bit before he could pull out another pair of glasses from his suitcase. That solved the problem!</p>
<p>The command-line interface does not discriminate againt the old people. There are well too many GUI applications which do not use the “screen estate” efficiently which make some older user’s life miserable.</p>
<p>At one time, I had a chance to work with another company which is arguable the most famous company which makes the GUI interface popular. Guess what, over there, all the test programs were run by typing command lines.</p>
<p>If Harvard wants to change what is occurring at HBS, why doesn’t it change whom it admits? Everything discussed in this article is directly under Harvard’s control. HBS could decrease the admission of finance types and increase the admission of people who have experience working in industry and aim to lead a company that makes a product. What do finance types contribute to society anyway?</p>
<p>HBS isn’t going to change their way. I doubt they want to lose a single seat in “Masters of Universe” club. I wouldn’t at all be surprised HBS created masters of universe mentality. It runs on connection, know-how attitude. People go there hoping they will be a part of that crowd. There’s so much money to make and you get to play God. If I didn’t know better, I maight be tempted myslef.</p>
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<p>Excellent point. I used to keep data on the grand projects of our new superiors and see if their contributions have a permanent impact on the betterment of the organization. None that I can tell. What I saw was a succession of folks undoing what the previous administration did in order to put their own stamp on history, wasting time and money in the process. I guess we all have to justify our salary somehow.</p>
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<p>That is why we need to quantify things and reward the producers, and not the rent seekers. I think Beliavsky has a point.</p>
<p>On a slightly different note, I am very surprised that nobody has suggested that if they dont like it, dont apply there, a message heard so often in CC. Maybe what affinity group you belong to does matter?</p>
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<p>I think a large part of that is because the browbeating hazing by finance guys alleged in the article is behavior which IMO is so beyond the pale that it shouldn’t be acceptable in any educational or professional environment. </p>
<p>As I said before, during my stint as subbing for a friend’s community college course for 2 sections of 50-70 students each, the department head told me I had the right to order students being disruptive to the detriment of the classroom environment to leave…and to call in security to escort him/her out if he/she doesn’t leave when asked to do so*. </p>
<p>I know for a fact many undergrad Profs/instructors at many other universities have this option as there’s a minimal expectation of in-classroom behavior and unlike K-12 teachers…having to put up with disruptive, bullying, or sometimes even violent behaviors is not something they’ve signed up for…or something most college branches are willing to tolerate from their students.</p>
<p>I was shocked when I read that these HBS students…mind you STUDENTS were browbeating/yelling/hazing junior faculty…especially women. Since when the hell was that acceptable?!! </p>
<p>If they did that in many other university/college classrooms…they’d be ordered to leave. They’d also be pointedly warned that repeats of such behavior will result in a possible academic suspension or even expulsion.</p>
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<li>Fortunately, students who had the potential to be disruptive by reading newspapers in a manner which blocked the view of those behind them complied when I gave them the choice of putting them away, going to the back of the class, or leave. Other than that the students were great and a few from each section even came up to shake my hand afterwards.</li>
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<p>I am a woman who went to HBS quite a few years back. A few thoughts on this. First, the article really didn’t read like an environment I remember. I don’t remember feeling it was so sexist, I don’t remember a big have/have not money divide or sexist pig classmates. I wonder if the average age attending has gone up - most worked 2-3 years first so even the people who made a lot of money didn’t yet make crazy money. I’m guessing the wealthy foreign student population is higher than in my day and might be part of the wealth thing - or just society is so fixated on that right now. Now I was already in a relationship and not looking to date as were many of my friends. So perhaps there was another segment of the population with more of these issues. I do remember a lot of humor and jokes – we used to laugh and joke more but society is so politically correct that probably all the fun would now offend someone.</p>
<p>On the HAND RAISING – as someone else mentioned it is NOT that the woman are afraid to raise their hands but it would be more that they are not raising them AS assertively and don’t speak without being called on as much as men and therefore get missed by a professor looking for hands in a sea students. BACKGROUND here and I don’t know if any of this changed since my time – but we are talking 50% of your grade is class participation in a class of NINETY people. This isn’t speaking up in a small discussion class which NONE of the woman there would have a problem with (and they would speak plenty in real world business meetings). But this is 90 people and it is half your grade – figure it out not a lot of opportunity and you need to nail it when you do speak up. This is also choosing the moment to interject your words of wisdom - but if the professor doesn’t call on you when what you have to say is still relevant to the conversation the moment passes (and chances for class participation points pass). Men might be more inclined to circle back just to make their point with women more aware that the right time for that comment passed. </p>
<p>I always thought it was ridiculous to have so much of your grade class participation in such a big class. But that is how the Case Study Method works – the Professor COLD CALLS (usually some take volunteers) someone to start “open the case” present their analysis and action plan. Then the discussion begins - people critique, ask questions, give other analysis with different conclusions the professor adds a side lesson in something when the time is right. The professor should have a plan and try to guide the conversation but it is a pretty organic process. The IB guys did tend to have confidence and speak a lot but honestly most had 2 years as an analyst Pre-HBS and really didn’t know much about really running businesses (my opinion – they knew finance multiples and P/E ratios etc - not much Management experience how companies run). A good professor would then, if they hadn’t spoke up yet as the discussion evolved, call on the real experts in the class for each case. They knew our backgrounds – the marketing case would end up with the P&G Product Manager saying “well actually this is how we did it” or the Army person would speak up on logistics/management of personal etc, the Engineer/Operations person on cases involving factories, production, bottleneck issues, the techies on the techie cases, consultant had background in some industries if they worked with clients in them and would be expert on that (sometimes the IB crew knew their clients businesses too), the scientist when science was part, then the regional experts from all the different countries represented in the section. The group KNEW who the experts were depending on the topic (first year all classes are with the same 90 people) and the experts were both Male and Female. Perhaps a bit skewed in my time more marketing experts were female and operations/engineering male – IB and consultants were fairly even M/F. There were some who spoke up a lot – but they weren’t necessarily the most respected. Second year classes were sometimes smaller (all electives and with different people in different classes) but the first year 90 in one room is unique.</p>
<p>It seems like for years they are trying to make it more gentle - in my day your seat day 1 was your seat for the year. There was some crazy early arrivals by some to secure the best seat (how ever each person defined that - back row went early lots of “cool guy” types got up at 6AM to get Sky Deck seats for the year!). But years ago they went to assigned seats and rotating half way thru the year. Now the article mentioned Assigned Study Groups which I think is ridiculous. Sometimes I think we are getting pretty coddling as a society – these are adults let them make a group (or not some choose not to) of people they want to work with, who want to meet at a similar time. You cannot force a study group. That is not a group project it is a group to meet with and review the cases before class. The same turning to the experts happened there – the engineering heavy case the others wanted to learn from the engineer in the group etc… My good friends were in my study group - but those relationships cannot just be assigned so it is happy and fair for all.</p>
<p>Overall I’d hope HBS has progressed not regressed since my time. I tend to think it has - and that the article was a bit sensationalist.</p>
<p>On the women’s salaries – many women even coming out of HBS make career choices to fit their lifestyle. I turned down higher paid opportunities for one that fit my life.</p>
<p>I thought of this thread this week as ds2’s gf was having a group interview and wondered whether she’d know to be more forceful than she might usually be in a one-on-one. Just found out she didn’t get asked back for the second round.</p>
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<p>But the authors did not control for salaries/experience prior to entering MBA programs…since females get a boost for b-school admissions, perhaps they are on average younger with a year or two of less experience?</p>
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<p>What does your second point mean? I understand your first point (and, of course, no one is forced to apply to HBS).</p>
<p>^I expect people to put their self-interest first and foremost through affinity groups. The fact that nobody suggested if they dont like it, dont apply there tells me that the participants in the thread must be majority women.</p>
<p>It is also important to remember that psychopaths find finance highly attractive. Robert Hare once said that if he could not use the prison population for his research for some reason, he would be headed straight to the Vancouver Stock Exchange.</p>
<p>I will say “If you don’t like it, go to Wharton or Tuck or Kellogg.” No, it’s not Haaavard, but it’s a top-notch b-school education with excellent opportunities. Alternatively, decide that two years of hell is wirth a lifetime of being an HBS alumna. Then again, both of my alma maters have reputations or being welcoming, nurturing academic boot camps; I don’t believe in paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to institutions that would be hostile to me or my well-being. </p>
<p>“But the authors did not control for salaries/experience prior to entering MBA programs…since females get a boost for b-school admissions, perhaps they are on average younger with a year or two of less experience?”</p>
<p>Why about quantitative skills? I found it fascinating that the only woman to get funding help was an engineer.</p>
<p>From what I hear, Wharton may not have HBS culture but succes at all cost is very much there. At Wharton, they resorts to cheating. In exams and homework. You can’t leave your work out to go the bathroom. They and HBS probably produce the majority of Wall Street leaders. I am curious to learn of their famous alumini. The only one I know is Jeff Skilling from HBS.</p>
<p>I think the gap between male/female performance is more of a gap between over-confident private equity/finance guys who participate in class more than everyone else.
My d works in one of these consulting firms and has been asked out on dates by some of these guys who are so full of themselves. When she realizes how arrogant he is and loves to hear his own voice, and understands that this is not the nice, caring guy she is looking for, she stops answering their text messages and phone calls. If more young ladies did that, then these guys will hopefully learn their lesson.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t worry consider than men do worse in female dominated education systems but nobody seems to care. It is no surprise that men don’t like working with women in general because they are raised by women and schooled by women, and when they grow up and get married they’re controlled by women in the domestic sphere as work horses. Historically men go through great pains to free themselves from a women’s input in just one area of their life. That’s where old philosophical theories of women not understanding philosophical or religious concepts come from. It’s completely self centered and lacks social conscience but natural means of escape. Just like feminists are completely self centered and do every thing they can to advantage women and disadvantage men in some kind of bizarre reparation for this.</p>
<p>Just because they are rich does not mean they have high morals or values above this behavior, it usually means the opposite. Rich people are known for taking moral liberties.</p>
<p>^^^ is it too early in the day to pull out the popcorn???</p>
<p>Probably just better off to not feed the ■■■■■.</p>
<p>Yeah, perhaps a little too obvious. There’s no fun in that.</p>