<p>Jeez, Toombs.</p>
<p>I always look for upbeat news in the US economy, believe it or not. I rarely find any, however. All I see are such things as a $14 trillion debt ($18 to 19 trillion if you count the Freddie and Fannie debt); $70 to $100 trillion debt in unfunded mandates ( Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security); $200 and $300 trillion exposure in credit default swaps; 17 to 24% real unemployment; lowest number of US employees in manufacturing since 1941; stagnant, if not collapsing, middle class since the '70s; largest debtor nation in the history of the world; etc. Hence, the gloom and doom. Sorry.</p>
<p>Parlabane, got any good major financial news? If so, share. If not, I suggest we save our eggs and prepare for the worst.</p>
<p>Toombs61, These are sobering stats. Any optimist parents out there especially if you have a better/different outlook (stats)?</p>
<p>Radically off topic, I know:</p>
<p>I believe in a rocky road to economic recovery, a painful de-leveraging. These bad stats can be corrected relatively quickly with decreases in defense and entitlement spending, decreases in absolute dollars, not just decreases in the rate of spending increases. I believe in tightly regulated financial markets to reduce further risk to our nation. We cannot gamble with money we no longer have. We also need to close the ever-widening gap between the rich and the poor. That is a recipe for social upheaval and political paralysis. Finally, what dollars we do spend should be focused on energy independence (green preferably) and education, two critical building blocks. </p>
<p>We’re in this together - no sacred cows, no entitlement that we can’t cut, no ultra wealthy person who gets off scot-free, no more unrestrained military industrial complex, no more costly meddling in the affairs of other nations. The hardest part: finding a leader who can make this happen. One thing for sure: we will never achieve success by pushing the suicidal, warmed-over agendas being trotted out by both parties. </p>
<p>American Exceptionalism is a joke, a canard.</p>
<p>All Empires fail, and for the same reasons (Redick):</p>
<ol>
<li>Expense of military abroad, and subsidies at home, </li>
<li>Decline in domestic productivity (spoiled, parasitic citizens), and </li>
<li>Corruption (illegal conduct) and decadence (unethical and immoral conduct) by leaders and citizens.</li>
</ol>
<p>It’s the invisible hand smacking us upside the head. But I mean this in a very optimistic, upbeat way :)</p>
<p>Edit: sorry OP for not staying in the lane.</p>
<p>Well stated Parlabane. I especially agree with the “no more costly meddling in the affairs of other nations”. Our own citizens are struggling and in many cases unemployed, and yet we continue to commit extraordinary resources abroad. Further, we continue to carry those who just “wander in” at the expense of our own. Who is helping us in our time of need?</p>
<p>[Fareed</a> Zakaria on How to Restore the American Dream - TIME](<a href=“http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2026776,00.html]Fareed”>http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2026776,00.html)</p>
<p>There are good ideas out there. It just takes strong leadership and great sense of urgency from all the politicians to make them happen. The so-called American dreams are slipping away ever so quickly. Sadly politicians seem unaware of the dreadful prospect we are facing and are still playing their games business as usual…</p>
<p>Not just citizens; corporations are people too, ya know? Hug a Fortune 500 today!</p>
<p>The constant problem here is that the US electorate has been voting for decades in support of the both the welfare state and the warfare state. The US is nearly broke, if not busted already. The party is over. The bills are coming due. Still, one political party wants the welfare state to keep on rolling while the other political party wants the warfare state to keep on pumping. Curse on both their houses. Until the American people realize they can’t pay now for much of either, the US economy will continue to collapse. Because I fear, based upon our awful spendthrift past, we will not elect many, might as well a majority, of pols who will stop the massive welfare AND warfare spending madness, we will soon be dead flat bankrupt. I hope that I’m wrong here, of course. Our past behavior gives me little hope, however, that I am wrong. </p>
<p>So till your own garden, take care of your young, and hope that the hard rains end soon.</p>
<p>toombs and parla,</p>
<p>Well said obervations on a very disturbing reality. What worries me most is that we may have gone beyond the point of no return. Why is history such an important lesson? – think of the Roman Empire. By the time they figured out that there were major problems far and wide it was too late. </p>
<p>Short of some all-powerful being stepping in to seize control of just about everything – yet doing so with a benevolent hand – we are apt to suffer the same fate as the Romans, only our empire has lasted only 50 or so years. Dare we put our dim-looking future in the hands of a dictator, hoping he or she actually will be good?!</p>
<p>Too much meddling in other countries’ business; too many enemies made; too much ‘in your face’ boorishness towards the world; too much break down of our moral code; too much societal sloth; too much sending good jobs overseas; too much hoarding of wealth; too much frivolity; etc, etc, etc!</p>
<p>Vico, who was one of the great historians of the modern world, noted in the early 1700’s that all nations go from base tribes and cultures to high civilizations back to barbarism. Most disturbingly, Vico found that the second stage of barbarity was worse than the tribal days because this later epoch holds none of the virtues of a more primitive society: modesty, duty, courage, religion, honor. For the modern barbarians, money is the measure of all things, and they live by lies, according to Vico.</p>
<p>Look at Wall Street. Look at Washington. Looks like the barbarians are here.</p>
<p>OMG - how true, Toombs.</p>
<p>One of my favorite movies is still “Barbarians At The Gates” which tells of the fall of RJR Nabisco (starring James Garner). </p>
<p>It does appear to be more brutal in Washington and Wall Street than usual. Or maybe the greed is just coming to light with more clarity. With fewer people able to navigate. I’ve heard that the majority of wealth used to be concentrated among 10% of the populations and it’s now concentrated in the top 1%.</p>
<p>Worse: The money is now in the hands of the top .01%. I saw a chart recently showing the recent increase in wealth/income of Americans. All groups in the US, except one, shown on that chart “enjoyed” an increase in income for the past 10 years or so on average 1% or less. That one exception, the top .01% of Americans, had an 18% increase in income/wealth. </p>
<p>The middle class has been losing financial standing for the past 30 years. Now the upper middle class is stalling or falling. </p>
<p>When does the American Republic start looking like a Banana Republic?</p>
<p>If you’re looking for a revolution, don’t hold your breath. The US has enjoyed a very high standard of living for a long time. The many in the middle class would have to sink a lot lower before they would seriously think about revolution. The wealthy know it and if they are smart (which looks highly doubtful given recent events) they will keep the middle class ‘just content enough’ to not cause too much trouble…</p>
<p>I recall living in Iran back in the 60’s and how shocking it was to know that 5 percent of the population controlled 95 percent of the wealth under the shah. And, a revolution did happen there, part of the reason being that very inequity of wealth distribution. Of course, Iran has long been a country of extreme wealth and poverty, in more or less those same proportions…</p>
<p>“Vico, who was one of the great historians of the modern world, noted in the early 1700’s that all nations go from base tribes and cultures to high civilizations back to barbarism.”</p>
<p>Can that be said of the Greeks; the Romans; the British?</p>
<p>I am not loking for an armed revolution; I’m anticipating, however, a revolution in the sense of a turning of a wheel. Here, I believe that the turning, at least economically for most Americans, will be for the worse. How can it be for the better at this stage of the game? And if the economy continues to fall, our political system, our social behavior and our civil laws will change in time. How? Don’t know, of course, other than there will be a major change or turning of the wheel here too.</p>
<p>As for Vico’s broad statements and insights about the rise and fall of nations and people, they applied to the Greeks and the Romans. If fact, he drew his conclusions on the cycle of history based upon his study of the ancient Greeks and Romans. As for the British, I think that Vico would argue, if he were here, that they are and have been exhibiting the rise and fall pattern he discerned centuries ago.</p>
<p>Of course, as we all know, when we speak of any “high civilization” we are referring to only those “movers and shakers” (generally, the ruling elite) whose actions, mannerisms and way of life determine the character of their age, hence what history records. We are not speaking of the great masses of people living at, shall we say, BELOW those high standards.</p>
<p>Does everyone really think that the eighteenth century, or The Age of Reason, was peopled mostly by perfumed and peruked dandys prancing about quoting Adam Smith and listening to Mozart while having their portraits done by Benjamin West?!</p>
<p>Yes, I think that Vico would concede that a nation’s high point of civilization was embodied by an aristocratic class, whether natural, inherited or contrived. But then every age, whether great or small, rich or poor, has some class of people wielding ultimate power, setting fashion standards and carrying the banner of the times.</p>
<p>Yes, but, unfortunately, ‘aristocratic’, has become tainted by those of its class who have indulged their every whim for their own selfish ends, rather than live by its nobler meaning of “rule by the best” with regards to common man.</p>
<p>In the immortal words of Lord Acton, “Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely.”</p>