<p>I can offer this approach, which seems to be working here. When I was young, families worked together - adults and kids - to wash grandma’s windows, mow lawns, etc. I’ve tried to remember this when I want my kid to do something. Sometimes there is no substitute for rolling up one’s sleeves and joining them in the effort. The other day she became frustrated with math because she knew she wasn’t getting the homework problems right. She was ready to quit. I opened the text to the appropriate section and handed it to her. She did the rest while I sat across the table. I am ever hopeful that I won’t have to make this sort of effort much longer, but for now it seems to be the best way to make sure a certain level of effort is maintained. Schools seem to be satisfied with ‘good enough’ so this task falls upon us.</p>
<p>moewb, we have visited a college of interest to d, and so far it does not seem to have inspired her enough to change her behavior. College is just not real enough to her yet.</p>
<p>Treetopleaf, my husband does sit with my daughter to go over math. She isn’t very happy about this, as she is kind of like the stubborn two year old who wants to do it herself, even if it is clear she could use help.</p>
<p>Part of our children’s personalities is the motivation they feel to perform and succeed. I don’t think we can change their personalities.</p>
<p>I myself have a very good job that pays me very well. However, I’ve realized over the past decade that, if i wanted an even better job and better pay, I’d have to work a hell of a lot harder – and I don’t choose to do so. What I’ve got is good enough for me.</p>
<p>That said, I have been cranky with my S when his interim report card (yeah, we get 'em halfway through the marking period) indicated he was getting a C in a subject he is totally capable of acing. I told him I expected him to do better and that for him, a C was not acceptable. Of course he pulled it up to a B+ by the time the real grade came out.</p>
<p>But there are many many things for our children to focus on at this stage. And for many of them, getting great grades – when it’s easy enough to get good grades – isn’t something they care about.</p>
<p>If she does not respond well to something as seemingly straightforward as her dad helping her with math, it seems unlikely that she will respond well to “more forceful means”.</p>
<p>I don’t think you can “make” your child have motivation, anymore than you can make your child eat or toilet train as a toddler. Motivation is an area over which they exercise the most control.</p>
<p>I have seen threats and punishments over grades (and these are “bad” grades, not B’s, as your D is getting), and these usually backfire. Sometimes, parents will bribe, and that can work in the short term, but rarely in the long term.</p>
<p>I also am of the mindset that happy and well adjusted kids are what we should all be seeking…not those that are the most stressed out with the highest GPA.</p>
<p>I have 2 S’s. S1, a very good student, spent very little time at home on schoolwork and was always doing projects at the last minute (will never forget him frantically gluing a brain model together because he was gonna be late for the Hoobastank concert if he didn’t hurry). He usually came out with A’s anyhow but got some B’s (in AP’s). I knew those B’s prob. could have been A’s but he was happy and satisfied so we were too. He also refused any prep for the SAT, took it, got 1400 and said that was fine with him, so it was fine with us too. </p>
<p>After he graduated #6 in his class, I jokingly asked him if he wouldn’t have had a higher rank if he had cracked a book once in awhile. His reply was “Yeah, maybe but I wanted to have a life and have fun in high school”. He is a dean’s list student at our state u on a full scholarship. I’m glad I didn’t push and just let him handle it. </p>
<p>S2 is a very average student who is lazy. I can say that because I’m his Mom! He is a h.s junior and has been this way his whole school career. We have poked and prodded and pleaded and grounded and restricted and praised and rewarded based on his grades for the last 10 years. </p>
<p>I can honestly say that none of it has worked with him. We know he could do better but he just won’t. At this point (age 17) we have told him that it’s all on him. We cannot do it for him. We will encourage him but it’s ultimately his boat to row. He is a happy personable kid (and a good football player) who is well liked and has held down the same part-time job for well over a year, so not totally irresponsible. What he does with his life will be up to him. I give up on pushing.</p>
<p>I know three boys very similar to your D. All three are gifted but not willing to put time or effort into their schoolwork, otherwise all three are very good kids with some ECs, all attended very good public schools (all different). In all cases, parents did not want to interfere in order to protect their good relationships.</p>
<p>The first one is current HS senior. His turning point happened at the end of his junior year after receiving a disappointing SAT score. He had enough time to significantly boost his SAT score, started working much harder and managed to improve his senior grades. Unfortunately, it was too late to significantly improve his GPA or to earn good GC recommendation. The outcome: he was rejected from his first choice college (ED) and ended up choosing between two marginally good OOS public schools. Since one of colleges is close to home and the campus is not very safe, he’ll live at home while attending this college, at least during his freshman year.</p>
<p>The second one is also a senior in HS. He will attend a CC since his parents refused paying for a third or fourth tier college. He hopes to pull up his grades and transfer into a better college in 1-2 years.</p>
<p>The third one is a freshman in a competitive private college with ~60% acceptance rate. His stats (high SAT, low GPA) were good enough to get admitted ED (most likely would have been rejected RD), however all of his friends ended up in significantly higher ranked colleges. He worked extremely hard and ended up in honors program and on dean list. He tried frantically to transfer into other colleges, however in spite of his stellar grades, essays and recommendation, he was rejected from all. He tries to stay optimistic, however I feel that he does not find his current college environment challenging enough for him or meeting his ambitions.</p>
<p>Needless to say, all parents are disappointed. It’s very difficult to say what could’ve been done differently and whether it would help. However, I am convinced that all bright kids that do not fully realize their potential will eventually rich a turning point and try improving the situation. Of course, they’ll find their way to success if they work hard enough, but it would be so much better to avoid all stress from the beginning. Regardless, motivation to excel must come from within.</p>
<p>bookiemom, this rang true to me:</p>
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<p>Veryhappy, I agree with you that this is in large part a personality issue. D is not competitive by nature, nor is she inclined to intellectual pursuits. In such a case, it makes perfect sense that it is not worthwhile to her to put the time in for the best possible grade – I also appreciated your own story.</p>
<p>btm, it is true that it would be better to avoid the stress at the beginning. The problem is that it is difficult, if not impossible, to convince someone of this if the motivation must come from within. But I do believe it is the case that parents should be proud of kids who end up working hard, even if they might be in a different place if that hard work had commenced earlier.</p>
<p>HP, my D is your D’s twin. The biggest problem is that there is nothing about schoolwork that she enjoys. No teachers, no subjects, no reading, nada. (Sports and social life are great, tho). So getting her to make the necessary effort to even get B’s is a battle. Yet when I suggest a gap year might be in order, she goes ballistic. “I need to go to college to get a job”. When I point out the college will require more schoolwork, she is speechless.</p>
<p>drb, my S2 is like that. Has never enjoyed anything about school (except sports and social life) and unlike his brother to whom it all came easily, S2 is just not inclined to work hard on something he’s not interested in. Now football is a whole different story but he is really good at that and so the hard work is a guaranteed payoff for him.<br>
He has signed up to take a class at the Community College next year (Sr). I keep telling him that it will be work and not just “I get to leave school early for this class” thing which is the part I think he is most excited about…sigh.</p>
<p>One of the most important lessons I have learned on CC is this: “Love the child you have, not the one you wish you had.” </p>
<p>I joke that my D is the queen of the B+. Just a little more preparation here and there, and she too would have one of those stellar GPAs so ubiqitous here on CC. (As it is, her GPA is still perfectly respectable for most sane people.) Unfortunately, I am not always sane when it comes to her grades, so I have wasted a lot of time - time she and I will never get back - on nagging. I regret that now, and I have gotten better now that she’s a junior, but I do regret that wasted time.</p>
<p>Success is more than grades, especially high school grades. I myself was valedictorian of my hs class, a National Merit scholar, and a Phi Beta Kappa graduate of a well-respected LAC. I hated most of high school and much of college because I always felt I was missing out on something (probably fun.) That’s one of the reasons why I’ve eased up on my own D; I don’t want her to go through life regretting the chances she didn’t take, and I don’t want her to think of her mother as some kind of neurotic shrew.</p>
<p>I want her to be independent, resilient, self-deprecating, and empathetic. And if she makes good grades while she’s in school - well, that should be a bonus, not a foundation.</p>
<p>Good post, Scout59. One other thought is that if parents (not necessarily the OP) push a kid to achieve more than they would do on their own, what happens in college? Kid who are comfortable with B’s in a typical high school curriculum can have a great college experience. But I think if they somehow end up in a school where they are “overplaced,” college could be very stressful and the student might be very unhappy. That’s why we talk about fit so much on CC. The uber-student who gets the stratospheric SATs and GPA will probably be very comfortable at a competitive, selective college. The kid who is pushed, manipulated, tutored to the nth degree might just feel like a failure, which is silly since there are wonderful colleges for every student.</p>
<p>
However, success usually requires effort. That is why, while I hate the nagging and the resentment it elicits, I am not willing to accept indifference and lack of effort. If the work were too difficult, that would be different, but this is not the case. And we are not talking about getting to A’s from an A-, but rather to B’s from C’s. In my value system it is important to care about what you are doing, and I feel I have to communicate that, even at the risk of a strained relationship.</p>
<p>drb - oh, I agree that my post addresses something different than that to which you spoke. I also agree that indifference is not an option, and my D would tell you that lack of motivation is what infuriates me the most.</p>
<p>I’m only sayng that it’s really hard to walk that line between motivation (nagging) and obsession. (I know this personally, because I’m really bad at maintaining that balance.) I also know that I’ve strained my relationship with D unneccesarily at times - we can laugh about it now, a little. And I have known others who were even worse at keeping the balance, and they now have estranged children… something I really don’t want to contemplate.</p>
<p>It’s just a difficult situation with no really great solutions!</p>
<p>I deal with a variant of this with my son. Since my daughter went through high school getting As like they were lying on the ground, when my son started showing A-s and even a B+ on his midsemester directional report (yes we get those too), I was very unhappy. In son’s case, he absolutely has the capacity to do better. And I KNOW an A vs. an A- is not a big deal in some schema but in our house where top schools are part of the culture it was a big deal.</p>
<p>I could get over the grade for the grade’s sake. I could get over the “he won’t get into Princeton” part. And for the most part I have. But I didn’t stop letting him know that I expect him to work harder. Because he watches TV, he plays Pokemon, etc. He estimates he spends 30% as much time on homework as D used to. </p>
<p>So I haven’t let up altogether because of two things. One, value of hard work and trying your best. Two, disdain and superiority. I don’t like to see my son feel disdain towards other students or teachers, or the endeavour of school altogether. I want him to have the experience of trying, even if he fails, even if he thinks the teachers aren’t brilliant or the other kids aren’t geniuses some times.</p>
<p>He far sweeter than I make him sound. </p>
<p>I guess what I am trying to say is that I believe there is room in the world for parents to nag their kids, if it is done in such a way that the kids understand we still love them unconditionally. And if it’s not just about the grades, but a set of values we are working hard to instill in them.</p>
<p>That said, I have had to back off. I have had to say OK to A-s. I may this year have to say OK to a B+;). But I would have felt worse if I hadn’t at least made my stand.</p>
<p>There are no punishments associated with any of this. I have never seen that work amongst my peer parents and usually it backfires. But clear statements of expectations set against a backdrop of deep and expressed love have to be OK or how the heck do we parent?</p>
<p>Long way to say that drb I concur.</p>
<p>“He is far sweeter than I make him sound.”</p>
<p>I know what you mean, Alumother. Whenever I gripe about those B+'s, I remind myself how really great my D is - witty, quirky, determined, and a really great friend to a bunch of quirky, witty teens. Too bad they don’t give grades for that!</p>
<p>My daughter and your daughter must be best friends! She is oh so capable, but lacks the motivation to achieve academically. And there is not a darn thing I can do about it! So I try hard to reduce the distractions in her life (limits on TV watching, text-messaging, computer gaming). I insist that she do all her assignments and turn them in on time. And I encourage her in her ECs (art and crew) and to read as much as possible. And that has worked. She and her friend (who is also an academic under-achiever) sit around on weekends and read everything and anything.</p>
<p>One thing that has worked with our kids is to focus on the learning, not the grades. When I felt that one of them isn’t working hard enough, I talked about the value of the subject area in future endeavors. S2 is hard enough on himself, so one other thing I’ve done is tell him that we don’t care about French, English, History or Religion. (We do, to a certain extent, but want him to focus on what’s important.) We care about Calculus, Physics and AP Bio since he wants to be a science major in college. This actually has worked out really well for us. By taking the pressure off of the “busy” work kinds of classes, he’s really doing great in all classes. But for some kids, more pressure has a negative effect – that’s the case with him.</p>
<p>I have a high achiever 21-year-old daughter at Carleton and what I would dub a 15-year old underachiever. Same parents, same environment, same opportunities…very different outcomes so far. </p>
<p>In addition, I have several friends whose children are the same ages and they relate similar observations when the topic comes up. These shared anecdotes have led me to wonder if some type of generational shift isn’t occurring before our eyes, albeit one that is still in its early stages. One trait my older daughter displayed (as did her school peers) was the ability to manage her time well and stick painstakingly to a schedule. She never used instant messaging or text messaging and, as far as I can tell, still doesn’t. </p>
<p>Her sister, on the other hand, never talks on the phone but rather simultaneously communicates online with six or more friends most evenings, while, at the same time, she regularly answers text messages. She seems perfectly comfortable jump-shifting from person to person, topic to topic. Yet this daughter is “so not interested” in creating a schedule and sticking to it. She prides herself on her spontaneity which certainly doesn’t include sustained effort on homework and long-term projects. </p>
<p>Who will be most successful in the adult workplace? Until recently, I assumed daughter #1. Yet I am starting to reconsider. A growing body of evidence indicates that increasing numbers of people spend most of their workdays manipulating information, often merely moving it from one place to another. Gee, maybe there’s hope for all of our “youngests” after all.</p>
<p>sjmom - I certainly agree that my daughter would not be happy in an environment geared to superachievers.</p>
<p>But, when you look at something like Princeton Review, it seems the "average " GPA for accepted sudents just about everywhere is well over 3.0.</p>
<p>Of course, I tell myself that an average is made up of highs and lows, but still… where is she gonna go? – </p>
<p>drb, you are right, we do need to set the expectation that halfhearted efforts are not okay. That is the crux of our frustration. But when just broaching the subject gets an angry glare, it is hard to know how to successfully communicate about this.</p>
<p>Given our home environment, I’m sure our expectations are clear, just not appreciated.</p>