girl feeling a little drained, looking for a little help

Parents Forum
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<p>This thread also caught my eye though I had nothing valuable to add to the insightful comments from the other posters. I, too, congratulate the OP for a job well done! I truly do not believe that the parents who are so happy for her are so congratulatory just because she got into Harvard. To successfully transfer into any of the selective schools on her list would have brought the same messages, and the very mention of Harvard on the original list would have been forgotten. </p>

<p>It has been my observation that the parents on CC are not the ones who have such tunnel vison that they only see the HPY & co with H being the ultimate prize. The kids seem to be the ones with this view. Perhaps their parents are giving them the push, but if they are they are not the folks who are on this site. One of the most valuable information on CC is the detailed discussion on colleges that do not tend to get that kind of write up. You can find thousands of descriptions, evaluations, discussions of Harvard. Little Mcdaniel or York or Coe are a whole different story. Though Loren Pope put a number of fine schools on the map that have eluded the college guides, there is not much info on many of the regional schools where the USN&WR rankings really are not able to distinguish them from other like schools. </p>

<p>Also, it is so very difficult to get into Harvard, and so highly regarded by many people, that I don’t see why it isn’t a reason to be celebratory. It is a great achievement. It is something many people want. To deny that would be a lie.</p>

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<p>I must say, I’ve been a little put-off by the HYP obsession on CC and I think it is the kids, not the parents.</p>

<p>My son, a rising senior, is attracted to small LACs with small class sizes and discussion based classes with real professors. I totally agree with and support his choices, but it is dis-heartening when I’m talking with others about his favorites and almost nobody has ever heard of any of them. It makes me wonder, even though I know it’s not true, whether he is making a mistake by not applying to any Ivies or to the 3 or 4 LACs that anyone recognizes, because he’s a great student and tester and has as good a shot as anyone to get in anywhere (a crap-shoot, in other words).</p>

<p>The daughter of a friend was accepted to Harvard and Oberlin for the Fall and had a difficult time choosing which to attend. She chose Harvard, but only after being ridiculed by numerous incredulous people. I hope that’s not why she made the choice she did. And of course, I celebrated her acheivement in getting accepted, because it is that, and I hope Harvard will be everything that is best for her.</p>

<p>But I know it wouldn’t be the best place for everyone, and I feel that USNWR’s rating system is doing a big disservice to our students, who seem to be narrowing their acceptable options to a tiny fraction of schools, based more on name-recognition than anything else.</p>

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<p>Bethievt, actually, if you really read through the CC parents forum you’ll find a great deal of information about school of all sorts, and you’ll find that the children of parents who post here go to various schools - from Harvard to State U. HYP etc attract a lot of attention because of what they are. But our kids go all over the place.</p>

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<p>I’m pleased as punch for the OP because she’s just so darned “lovable”. I mean, really, I could just hug her and pinch her cheeks. :stuck_out_tongue: What a beautiful heart she has, what passion, and such optimism! You gotta love that. And her intellect is non-too-shabby to boot! So she took a while to find her way. But now that she has----wow----look out world! Even though her politics lean to the far left, and I’m a dedicated centrist, she embodies that which I think is “pure” about the left, and which I believe only the very young can sustain—namely, untainted idealism. I wish her all the continued luck in the world, if indeed luck had anything to do with her getting into Harvard. May she never become jaded or disillusioned by the fetid realities of partisan politics. It would be a shame for such a bright light to dim.</p>

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<p>I think most parents on CC do indeed help their kids look for the best fit. I have two kids going to college in September, one to Harvard and one to a top notch LAC, who chose not to apply to HYP. They are totally equal in my eyes (the schools and the kids!)</p>

<p>My Harvard student would have been happy at all of the schools she applied to. Is she thrilled to have been admitted to Harvard? Absolutely. My LAC student is thrilled about his school too.</p>

<p>As an aside, going to Harvard was not a lifelong goal for my child. In fact, it was a late entry onto her college list, and when we toured schools (and we toured A LOT with two kids in one year) … we spent the least amount of time at Harvard, never thinking that she would possibly be admitted!</p>

<p>“I love 2 things about Harvard:
The funny way people say the name of the school when you ask them where they went. It’s always with this huge, learned sense of humility. Sometimes they’ll kinda mumble it, looking away from you. Other times, they’ll say “Cambridge.” And often they’ll try to look very casual about it: who me? bragging about Harvard?”</p>

<p>That is so true. My daughter and I have realized that the reason Harvard students (and alumni) do that is because of the reaction they get. People come up to my kids all the time and ask where they are going to school. When one says, “LAC” … the reaction is, “Oh, very nice” or “Where is that?” When the other quietly says Harvard (feeling the need to downplay the excitement of any kid going to college for the first time anywhere) the reaction is usually amazement, dumbfoundment (is that a word?) or a string of questions that doesn’t stop. When our family went out to dinner after HS graduation, we encountered this with our waitress. She went as far as to ask my daughter what her SAT scores were. “I don’t remember,” my daughter mumbled. “Were they perfect?” “No. Actually, I’d really like the baked ziti.” </p>

<p>It reminds me of the old saying about how everyone owns a pregnant woman and feels free to touch her stomach and give advice!</p>

<p>My daughter is just as excited about shopping for dorm stuff, her future roommate, picking classes, meeting new friends, putting a decal on her car, and thinking about her future as the next kid. She had to make a really difficult choice about whether to choose Harvard or another school that she really loved (not YP). It was her pre-frosh weekend at Harvard that clinched it for her. Really, kids are kids.</p>

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<p>I wish we could have more discussion of ethics on CC, because I truly think posts like the poetheart’s are harming the kids reading this, especially if they’ve followed shag’s transfer posts on the other thread. The trouble with CC is that you leave a “paper” trail.</p>

<p>A beautiful heart? Maybe. Optimism? More like cynicism. Passion, I grant you; passion to get into an elite school.</p>

<p>Quote: "I would love to send you a copy of that essay of mine which I’m pretty sure is what got me into Harvard instead of some highfalutin non-existent “connection.”</p>

<p>Quote: “My mother is on the admissions committee for WUSTL’s med school, she’s read all my essays.”</p>

<p>Quote: “I had no connections whatsoever, although during the admissions cycle, I certainly wished I did.”</p>

<p>Quote: “I’ve got the connections down.”</p>

<p>There is another post in which she dreams about a “cushy” (I think was the word) job in D.C. Idealism, indeed.</p>

<p>Many of the kids, and at least one poster on this thread, helped shag with her essay, in addition to her mother. Call me old fashioned (or jealous, or having sour grapes, or mean-spirited, or worse), but I can’t find it in me to find this all “lovable.”</p>

<p>We all want to “believe,” and I admire people who want to believe, but I prefer to hold out for the real deal.</p>

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<p>I won’t try to track all the quotes, but someone who is on the admissions committee for WUSTL med school has NO connections with the admissions committee of Harvard College by virtue of that position at WUSTL.</p>

<p>When my older S applied to colleges in his senior year, the AP-English teacher assigned application essays as homework. I’d never encountered that practice before and was quite taken aback; but I gather it’s a common practice. It is just as common for parents to cast their eye over what their children have written. That Shaganov got some help is not at all out of the ordinary. I, myself, have helped quite a few students on CC.</p>

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<p>Oh, Hereshoping, give it a rest for gosh sakes. A while back, someone in another thread wrote with dismay about the “mining” of a poster’s past threads in order to cherry pick a case against them. It’s offensive, mean-spirited, and yes, does smack of sour grapes.</p>

<p>You irrationally don’t like the kid (even finding a way to make a derisive nickname out of her screenname.) Fine, we all feel that way some time. Most of us know when to keep it to ourselves.</p>

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<p>Of course I knew I would be accused of that, garland. I used the nickname b/c that’s what others have called her, and we all use shortened names here–I did not intend it to be demeaning. I knew going in you would all ignore the larger point–after all, what is cc about if not getting into elite schools, by hook or crook, apparently. I “mined” other posts to see if my gut feeling was off, since I was called so many names by you and others. I am not happy to see my instinct was correct. In fact, I find it QUITE depressing. I had no intention of sharing what I learned, until I read poetheart’s gushing post. I know I am hopelessly naive in the eyes of all here (and my poor son has no hope, if he ever cares to, of getting into one of those schools with my hopelessly archaic values!). I wish the girl the best (as I have in a pm); if anything she’s just a victim of the current elite college frenzy among some in our society. My points made, I’ll now “give it a rest” for you all.</p>

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<p>Naive is not the word I would have used…</p>

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<p>What word would you have used, garland? I take it you don’t believe that I would not condone (even if they wanted to, which, I’m confident they would not) my kids getting help on their essays for any school. In fact, they’ve always done all their own work, so to them it would seem very strange to be told they should have help on a college essay. I understand that for some people that is hard to believe. If you and others want to continue to think I’m discouraged by the shaganov scenario because of envy and jealousy or sour grapes, there’s nothing I can say to convince you otherwise, obviously.</p>

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<p>Marite already answered about the “getting help” issue. Most college applicants are urged to have someone read over their essays. That’s not the same thing as someone else doing them. You don’t like this kid, and you can’t admit the problem might be yours.</p>

<p>I’d use the word “disingenuous.”</p>

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<p>Gahl-lee! I thought this would be a thread to encourage folks.</p>

<p>I don’t care about all this essay stuff. This young lady obviously has the goods to write her own essays, unless we want to say she got help in posting here. Shoot. Had she just taken the stuff she’s posted here and cleaned it up, it would have been good enough to get her pretty much wherever she wanted. So this essay stuff is just crazy, in my opinion.</p>

<p>And where this kid’s parents work just doesn’t concern me at all. Its not like her mom picked up the phone and said “Hey! Accept my kid or else!” and the folks at Harvard suddenly got all shaky about it. C’mon man. This is just not the sort of conversation we should be having here. It is just too uncharitable.</p>

<p>And the last time I checked, the only folks who didn’t want a cushy job were folks who already had one.</p>

<p>Also, you know, once a young person gets out of the pit, they often exult and may even temporarily lose touch with how awful they used to feel. There is no harm in this. In fact, this is as it should be. If anyone wants to see this kid with her head bowed, I’ll let yall in on a little secret: Don’t worry. She will be back in the pit soon enough.</p>

<p>What would anger me is that this young lady should encounter someone who is in the pit themselves, and then fail to show them kindness and empathy. But that ain’t happening. I am sure the instant she encounters someone who is losing hope, she will flash back to her former days and begin to show much greater empathy than usual. (She had better do this or I’ll make sure Harvard never wins another football game again– ever. In fact, I think I’ll just go ahead and do this anyway. I have spoken hehehe).</p>

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<p>I just do not get the ill will toward this young woman. Is it because she got into Harvard? Would you have been saying this back when she was admitted to UVM? </p>

<p>Essays do not get you into college in themselves. WHAT her essay showed about herself is more the thing. Writing it well is important but it is more about what it reveals about the person. This girl did have something to write about. I haven’t seen her essays. But the “content” is about who she is as a person was in the first post and that is what was a big plus. If she wrote about it well, all the better, but it’s the “it” that is more the key. </p>

<p>As far as help with essays, that is not the same as writing someone’s essay and colleges ENCOURAGE students to have someone look over their essays. All good writers get a second reader. My kids wrote many college essays on their own but we did discuss the topics ahead of time and I did read the essays over and make suggestions of things they may want to change or add, etc. Example, if I thought it needed a better opening, I’d say so. If they were trying to cut 100 words, I’d give opinions of where they may wish to cut without losing the essence of the essay. One of my kids, after she got to the final drafts, showed them to an English teacher to see if that person had any input or caught any mistakes, etc. The essays were hers. Having others read them or make a suggestion is VERY common and I suggest ALL students consider doing so. Colleges often encourage that as well. My kids’ teachers did not assign college app essays in school but I have heard stories of others who have had that happen. </p>

<p>As far as posters on CC being obsessed with getting into Ivies or elites…I am sure there are SOME who have this bent…I see some student posters on CC who seem overly concerned or passionate about getting into an elite and very into rankings and prestige, etc. But I don’t think ALL are like this! I know when I first found CC and showed it to my oldest D, she was taken back by that way of thinking as it is foreign from hers. Prestige and rankings are not on her mind. In fact, she was totally unaware of the rankings and still is to this day. Though her college list had reach, match and safety schools on it, she also grouped her colleges into most favored, favored and like a bunch and enough to attend but less favored. And those groupings did not correlate with the way these schools are ranked. After she had all her acceptances in hand, she narrowed them down to three to go back and visit yet again as she could not decide. At that point, she dismissed her acceptance to Penn (as a Ben Franklin Scholar) and was considering Tufts and Smith over Penn by far and returned to see them. While she did end up at Brown, she liked Tufts and Smith just about as much and it could have gone either way but some things on her last Brown visit clicked and she chose it and it is a great fit and she is happy. I know if she ever posted here (which she did not) on the student forums and said she was going to choose Tufts or Smith over Penn, SOME kids on this forum would think she was nuts (and now on some thread, I read that supposedly, unofficially Penn may be ranked number three this year by USNews, which we never looked out when choosing colleges but some kids on here really are into that stuff and would call my D nuts). So, not ALL kids care about prestige but care about finding the college environment that suits their desires and needs. With the OP, I can tell that she wanted a learning environment that was different from UVM. I believe this girl would have been just as thrilled to go to Georgetown or wherever else she was applying to, as much as Harvard, because it was a change from where she was attending that didn’t feel like the right match for her. </p>

<p>Also, the fact that her mom works in admissions at a med school in the midwest has NO bearing on any connections or admissions to Harvard. That is completely false. This girl got in on her own merits and I have no idea why anyone would go to any lengths to shed doubt on that. </p>

<p>I counsel applicants and many of their parents ask about using this or that PERCEIVED “connection” and none of these are true connections that would make ANY difference. I’m talking things like how an alum is their god parent, and stuff like that. </p>

<p>I also think there are some who see a kid or an adult achieve something that is considered a pretty good achievement and ASSUME that some connection was involved or something like that. If this girl’s mom had donated several million dollars and built a building at Harvard, you might then have a case!</p>

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<p>Hmmm… yes… wherever I wrote that I had “connections down” I am A. ashamed of that lazy display of slang and B. sure I was talking about WUSTL, where I did have connections by virtue of my high school alone, in which of a graduating class of 100, 25 students applied to WUSTL and 24 were admitted, and through my family, many of whom taught at and attended the Med school. Any other “connections” I made for myself. My history professor at UVM is friends with a professor in the SFS at Georgetown, and when I visited Georgetown, this professor and I talked about the Vietnam War for almost two hours. If he contacted the admissions committee after I left, fine. This is college admissions and that is how it works.
As far as my essay goes, I actually find it funny that I’m being accused of having lots of help on that. While I agree that there isn’t anything wrong with having a lot of help on that, I started writing that essay at midnight one night over winter break, and finished it at five thirty in the morning. Ninty five percent of the content is the same. My mother edited grammar. Posters on CC told me it was passionate, but if they offered suggestions, I don’t even remember it. For anyone who wants a basic overview of my two main essays, this should dispel the notion that someone else constructed them for me: My ‘Why Harvard’ essay talked about the pivotal moment of my life, having been lazy and apathetic until one night in New Mexico driving to my grandparents house in Santa Fe, listening to John Kerry accept the Democratic nomination for President and crying in the backseat of my family’s car as a world that was bigger than me began to make sense. I say that the reason I want to transfer to Harvard is because the values I claimed that night as mine are the values I’ve found at Harvard, and the rest of the essay is structured telling a story of my four visits to Harvard the past year, framed by quotes from Kerry’s speech. When I talked about the other students and the spirit of wanting to impact the world at Harvard, I used “Their gift of open eyes, open mind and endless world are bigger than any words… We are here for something bigger than ourselves.” When I talked about the government concentration, I used “In these dangerous days, there is a right way and a wrong way to be strong… We’re the optimists. For us, this is a country of the future.” When I talked about the Insitute of Politics, I used, “and so tonight, we are here to ask, where is the conscience of our country?” When I talked about a history concentration and the backbone of American and Bostonian history I feel on campus, I used, “I learned what it meant to be America at our best… I know the reach of our power, and I know the power of our ideals.” The essay ends with me standing in the snow in Harvard Yard at the end of my last visit: “As I stepped out of Weld into the swirling snow and the Yard, I realized that I was standing in the middle of America at its best, at that very moment, and that I very much did not want to be a visitor at Harvard anymore. I was jealous of every single student traipsing by me simply because they didn’t have to leave. I felt a fierce admiration for Harvard as a school, as an indelible ingredient of the American story, as a champion of the values of open eyes, open mind, and open heart. Snow flakes flew at my face, I fell into step with a parka clad crush of students clutching coffee mugs, laughing and lobbing snowballs at each other, and I felt a resolute surge of peace and belonging well up inside of me.
As I approached the gate to Cambridge, I realized that it was the same gate whose inscription on the opposite side—Enter to grow in wisdom—I’d been so struck by in October. The side I was facing read simply: Depart to serve better thy country and thy kind. I caught my breath and turned back to look at Harvard Yard. I felt as at home and comforted as I had that night in the back of the car in New Mexico, and the same infrequent tears that sprung up listening to Kerry lend a voice to my conscience threatened to spill out of my eyes right on the streets of Cambridge. And as simply as I had known along a New Mexican highway one night that I wanted to spend my life fighting for good governance, I knew that I wanted to spend the next three years of my life growing in wisdom and learning to serve my country and my kind at Harvard College.”</p>

<p>And finally, in response to the cushy job quote, that was in a thread wondering if Harvard students were as altruistic as they appeared since a lot of them go on to do jobs like i-banking. I said that although someday I may and would like to have a cushy DC job, that doesn’t mean that I won’t be working to make the world a better place. No matter your interpretation of a Washington consultant, it is up to me, and I do take the responsibility on myself, to take what that job has and to impart good on the world. Traveling to Davos or Kyoto to testify before an international panel on climate change, not leaving war rooms until 2AM writing counterattacks for candidates who won’t write bigotry into the constitution, is a lot less glamorous than working at a non profit or nourishing children in Ethiopia, but I don’t find it less heroic, Gucci bag whilst doing it or no.</p>

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<p>oh, and my other essay was about the a book that has impacted me, and I wrote about the Bhagavad Gita (the Hindu version of the Bible) and an inscription above the wall in Memorial Church at Harvard. And the real reason I’m still posting here (other than to say THANK YOU to everyone for all the encouragment) is for other people who might feel as hopeless as I did, and I’d like to post this for them.</p>

<p>I was accepted to: Harvard, Georgetown, Barnard, Wellesley, WUSTL
Waitlisted: Boston College
Denied: Tufts, NYU.</p>

<p>Go figure, but go for it.</p>

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<p>what a lovely writer you are! and a perceptive thinker. i am encouraged that genuine passion and intellect are recognized at these elite institution. watching at my kids’ high schools and seeing the amount of grooming and boosting and polishing that so many of their peers have gotten to gain access to the top schools, i had been feeling disheartened by the whole admissions process. this is restoring some of my faith.</p>

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<p>For Shaganov: The passages you quoted from your Harvard essay are wonderful writing. Please keep writing during your years at Harvard. </p>

<p>I attended a one-week seminar at Harvard seven summers ago and it was complete bliss. I too wanted to blend into the group there and never leave.</p>