Golden Doodles Anyone?

Princedog · June 27, 2007, 11:38pm

The problem with these conversations is that the truth can be obscured by our emotional connections. I understand where you are coming from. First, let me make it clear that I do not really “support” per se, or encourage, any breeding. I do however, see the benefits and reasons for continued responsible breeding (as I have laid out earlier). Knowing what I know now, what I learned after I got a dog at 13, I will never, not ever once again, buy a dog from a breeder. And yet I have an absolutely gorgeous dog who ia could not adore more, from a breeder (albeit a show breeder who actually meets my criteria). But this was not necessarily the case. My parents did not know all that we know now when they went out to get a dog, and it is extremely terrible that we almost bought from a pet store, etc. But the information isn’t readily out there and even when you see it, it is sometimes hard to accept because it is tied up in your past decisions. It is actually terrible IMO that we bought at all, because there ARE shelties in rescue, they AREN’T that hard to find, and we had the breed experience to really help one. But I am always careful now, this has taught me a lesson, that I can’t allow past decisions and emotional connections to color my perception of the truth when more information is presented to me.

I have had my dog for five years. My interest in homeless animals started as a natural extension of my intense love for our own “Canine American.” It was partly coincidence and partly pursuit, that my passion for homeless animals would go beyond “oh well that’s sad”. Partly coincidence because I found a good group of people who could point me in the right direction. And partly pursuit, because, maybe since I was so young, I was able to check my emotional history at the door. But not at first, not really. I still tried to justify it all “well they (insert pet store puppy, backyard breeder puppy) need homes too.” True, but you cannot perpetuate these cycles. We are drowning in homeless animals because we are allowing emotion to trump reason, and we are allowing ourselves to perpetuate dangerous cycles maybe because that’s just easier than admitting the truth, that we’ve been wrong and need to change some things.

In fact, one of my criteria in my previous post for acceptable breeding is a lifetime guarantee to take back the dog. Our breeder was very clear: if anything happened, we were NEVER to take our dog to a shelter or rescue, we were to bring it back to her. We are under contract for that. Most (literally, all, actually) of the purebred dogs we get in rescue (and also in shelters) are from what we typically call “backyard breeders” - people who are again, usually well intentioned, but are not breeding responsibility. They typically have a nice pet and buy into the “I should make more nice pets”. The other source is dogs bought from pet stores, which get dogs from “puppy mills” that basically bred female litter after litter until they die (sorry if that is too graphic hope not). These are not show bred dogs in either case. Also, the vast, vast majority of dogs we get in rescue, and the vast vast majority euthanized yearly, ARE essentially perfect. There is nothing wrong with them. They are only the victims of human misfortune, at best, irresponsibility, in the middle, and abuse, at worst.

Also, the biggest problem with these two sources of pets is that they tend to perpetuate a cyclical sort of breeding that is seen as harmless but is a big contributor to the surplus animal population. This is because these sources do not require pet quality dogs to be spayed and neutered. Perhaps the greatest contributor to the unwanted pet population is accidental litters. But litters of dogs that were intentionally bred and not homed well also contribute. Either way “responsible” show breeders are not really contributing to this because they require “pet quality” dogs to be spayed or neutered - if the dog isn’t deemed as furthering the line then they don’t want more litters of pet quality dogs when we already have soooo many and are not in danger of running out any time soon :)

Again, I cannot expect you to accept the truth as I see it. I am just trying to show where I am coming from. I see a lot of what I consider misinformation being perpetrated. This doesn’t help humans or the dogs they get. Unfortunately, although the dogs are lovely, I simply cannot endorse the casual breeding of mixes. This may seem heartless or cruel but I consider the situation as we have now in the US exceptionally heartless and cruel. But we all have to call the stops the way we see them. Like I said I do not want to misrepresent myself, and I do not have material interests per se on one side or the other. I am only sharing my opinion here.

weenie · June 28, 2007, 7:45am

Our city pound (which is not the largest animal shelter in the area) euthanizes over 100 dogs per month. It’s unbelievable really.

alwaysamom · June 28, 2007, 8:44am

princedog, I do understand where you’re coming from, trust me. You’re preaching to the choir here, and in a perfect world, no dog would be without a loving home, no dog would be euthanized or rehomed, no dog would be left tied up and abandoned in front of a vet’s office (can’t tell you the number of times this has happened over the decades that my mother has been a vet). The reality is far different, as you well know, and I’m not convinced it will ever change. How could it?

You do seem to be focussing on “the casual breeding of mixes” to make your point when in the first paragraph you state that you don’t support any breeding. I admire your passion for the cause, I truly do, but changing human behavior on this scale is virtually impossible. The real problem, in my opinion, is irresponsible pet ownership. Too many people, as you well know, get a pet without fully investigating or understanding the ramifications of their decision. Too many do not have their pets neutered, even when they have the opportunity at free, or reduced cost, clinics. Too many decide a month or a year or seven years in (just helped with a rehome in this situation recently! unbelievable!) that they don’t really want the responsibility of a dog, or a cat, or a rabbit, etc. I wish I knew a solution.

We have never purchased a dog from a pet store. I can’t even LOOK at the pups at a pet store because I know I’ll want to bring them all home! We’ve purchased fish at a special fish store, many times, and my H bought one of my Ds a bunny once years ago at a pet store (in a weak moment). Our other bunnies, and cats, and even a couple of hamsters (years ago) were all rescues. Our two current non-doodles (both pure bred dogs) were rescue dogs. We have a family friend in NY who trains dogs for Broadway shows (two currently in Legally Blonde -2 bulldogs and 3 chihuahuas-3 are understudies!). He’s been doing this for probably 30 years and is one of the most amazing individuals I know. ALL of the dogs he works with are ‘pound dogs’, as he lovingly calls them. When they ‘retire’, he keeps them! I think he and his wife currently have about 15 former ‘stars’ living with them on their farm in Connecticut. This is way off the original topic, and I apologize for that, but like you, I also wanted to share my opinions and, I guess, also attempt to make it clear that I am not an uncaring individual on this issue, even though I do own two doodles. :)

Princedog · June 28, 2007, 4:35pm

I totally understand. I don’t think you are uncaring. We do have slightly different views because the rescue community (I’m not as involved as a lot of people I know, I do have to state that) does a lot of proactive work to change human behavior on a larger scale. It is slow work, I do understand this, and in no way do anything of us believe this is, say, happening tomorrow, you know? But the headway that’s already been made, and that’s made every single day, is fairly encouraging once you get steeped in it and start seeing the day to day improvement. Without the people who are working, somewhat idealistically, to change things, the low cost or free spay/neuter programs you mention wouldn’t exist. So this is what keeps “the fight” going. There’s also a sense of hopelessness that many people feel. They see 100 dogs euthanized monthly. They don’t know what to do. They know they can’t take 100 dogs, so they just feel helpless and don’t really do anything at all. I understand this feeling, but I have also learned it is not really something we need to accept. It can also lead us to justify behavior we know isn’t the best thing to be doing, by saying, well it’s all happening anyway and “one more” won’t matter. But the problem is, a couple million of us get to that mindset, and “one more” is a couple million more.

So even if you can’t change human behavior, the goal of most rescue work is to help dogs. One dog, maybe. If you help one dog, it’s better than helping no dogs. That doesn’t even mean they get “saved” but I know people who work shelter jobs that break their heart just so they can give a dog a last few days of love before they have to be put down. Sadly these people can be maligned by general society as “animal killers” even though they’re far from the ones perpetuating the problem, as you know.

This is of course, a BIG problem, not only because of the obvious ramifications, but because of the cultural attitude it sets. But owner relinquishment isn’t necessarily the main source of overpopulation, in a general sense. The US actually does euthanize a lot of young puppies, under 10 weeks, accidental litters. And accidental litters are the biggest source of overpopulation once you trace it back. It’s kind of a ripple effect: even when they do all get placed in homes, it’s generally a little haphazardly. Whenever people get a dog like that, it tends to be rather opportunistic, a friend had it so they took it. These dogs are often given up, or they don’t get S/N and have accidental litters of their own. The problems with backyard breeders and pet stores is they also don’t require the S/N of pet quality dogs, even though they shouldn’t be bred. So these dogs do contribute a lot of accidental litters. These kinds of breeders are also the most vocal opponents of legislation that tightens S/N programs, because they don’t like the terms (most show breeders already follow a lot of the terms that are proposed).

The solution to irresponsible pet ownership is to eliminate the sources of opportunistic pet purchasing. Rescues work very hard to make sure homes are ready for the kinds of dogs they’re getting. A pet store will sell you anything, and as you note, they are often impulse purchases. Backyard breeders also often inspire friends to buy or acquire a dog they wouldn’t otherwise look for, even though they are more well intentioned than mills. That doesn’t mean that ALL pets acquired from these sources are given up, but many are. Reinforcing the idea that acquiring a companion is something that should only be done after doing a lot of research and a lot of thought of how the dog can fit in the home, what type, etc, goes a long way towards securing lifetime homes for animals. So I applaud the family in the OP for taking the time to ask around, and consider what would be best, instead of rushing into a VERY large decision. I often think, people wouldn’t buy a car on the spot, or after one day of thinking about it. And getting an animal is adding a living, breathing, family member that you will likely spend more time with than your car! This is a huge, huge decision and commitment that should not be taken lightly.

Rosco_sMom · July 13, 2007, 11:09am

This thread has evolved away from the discussion of the goldendoodle, in case anyone is interested there are a number of excellent resources for those interested in finding a reputable breeder as well as information on this mix.

<a href=“http://www.idog.biz%5B/url%5D”>www.idog.biz</a> - The International Doodle Owners Group is a non-profit educational resource and involved in rescue/rehome of labradoodles and goldendoodles in need of a home. There are also articles written to aid a person in finding a reputable breeder of “doodles.” I am the community liason for Washington state. There are liasons in many parts of the USA and Canada that can help direct you to other resources.

<a href=“http://www.poomixrescue.com%5B/url%5D”>www.poomixrescue.com</a> lists poodle mix dogs across the country. Somebody put this together to help people find labradoodles or goldendoodles in shelters, those needing to be rehomed, and other poodle mix dogs.

<a href=“http://www.thedoodlezoo.com%5B/url%5D”>www.thedoodlezoo.com</a> – a discussion forum for owners of labradoodles and goldendoodles (or any poodle mix for that matter, but mostly the aforementioned kind).

I have two labradoodles and yes I can attest to the vast differences in coats. However, on the whole a first cross labradoodle has probably the easiest coat…no guarantees on shedding, but since the first cross labradoodles rarely get THAT poodley, the matting is minimal. One of my labradoodles is flat coated and terrier like, the other is curly and thicker coated. Both shed some, but far less than a lab. Thule is more energetic and Rosco (a full year younger) is quite mellow.

I got Rosco from a reputable breeder. I realize reputable breeders in the pure breed community consider a mixed breed breeder disreputable by default of mixing breeds but I don’t believe that in itself proves anything.

What do I consider reputable?

1) All breeding dogs are tested and have passed the main health clearances: Good or Excellent OFA hip scores (or equivalent PennHip score, though rated differently), eyes cleared by CERF, heart checked, and Vwd cleared by parentage or test (for the poodles), as well as general blood panel taken regularly to check for diabetes, thyroid, etc.

2) Dogs are part of family and not kept in kennels as a general rule

3) Puppies raised in home and exposed to various home stimuli, sounds, sights, smells, socialized as appropriate for their developmental level.

4) Minimum 2 year health guarantee against genetic defects with a contract that will reimburse the new owner should a genetic defect occur rather than require the puppy to be returned. My Rosco had entropian eye, breeder fully reimbursed me for the surgery. No other pups in her litters have had it thus far.

5) Lifetime support and a contract with family that pup MUST be returned to them if/when family can not keep the puppy for any reason so the breeder can rehome. This is very important in preventing dumping of pups at the shelter.

6) Owners are carefully screened and puppies are sold very selectively – i.e. not just anyone with cash/check/paypal can buy a puppy.

7) Puppies are selected for family based on temperament, being careful to match family/individual’s needs with the right puppy…as much as possible.

8) Breeding dogs are selected for health and temperament first and foremost.

9) Pet puppies go home either spayed/neutered OR with a spay/neuter agreement in contract. Though the contract is difficult to enforce…

These breeders DO EXIST. Besides the IDOG listings, another listing that at least takes care of the health testing/health guarantee aspect is:

<a href=“goldendoodle-labradoodle.org”>goldendoodle-labradoodle.org;

Oh one more note on coats…from my vicarious experience, talking with owners of goldendoodles (vs. my labradoodles) I get the impression that MORE goldendoodles end up being low shed (vs. first cross labradoodles), but they also end up requiring more coat maintenance/grooming. You usually have to pick one: do you want minimal shedding and hair that keeps growing and requires a lot of maintenance to prevent matts? Or do you want a dog with fewer grooming needs but can stand some shedding? In the end all dogs “shed” to some degree…it just depends on your definition. I shed if you look at the hair that my brush catches or that ends up in the drain of my shower after I wash my hair. But I don’t leave hair allover others’ clothing ;-)

Rosco_sMom · July 13, 2007, 11:15am

Hi UCgradmary…I posted at least a week after the discussion got started…don’t know if you’ll get my post so I hit “reply” to yours. If you go to the last page you’ll see some resources I’ve listed for you to research this mix further as well as how to find a reputable breeder. I happen to be involved in the doodle “community” and wanted to be sure good sources were represented.

acinva · July 13, 2007, 12:12pm

According to the Humane Society of the United States, between 25%-30% of all dogs in shelters are purebred – I’m sure most of them came from what people thought were “reputable” breeders.

The only reputable breeders are the ones that are trying to improve the breed. Those that are breeding “designer” dogs are no more reputable than a backyard breeder. They’re just adding to the overpopulation – especially because they are not requiring their dogs to fixed.

younghoss · July 13, 2007, 12:38pm

marytn hit it on the nose calling it a cutesy breeding trend. Sellers of these dogs refer to it as a designer breed. Most of the rest of the dog world consider them mutts. Mutt here, not interpreted as a bad dog, but rather the real meaning of the word, a mixture of more than one breed. Certainly a mutt can be a good, loving pet.
Many feel the best way to advance a breed is to mate dogs that exhibit the better traits of the breed. Others may feel to make a dog more sellable, they may crossbreed dogs in hopes of getting the characteristics combined.
Locally, a bichon frise is becoming popular, and many like the cuteness of one on the small side. Some breeders choose to mate smaller ones, hoping for smaller offspring. Others breed bichon to chihuahua to obtain smaller size but hope they still look more like bichon.
Our bichon, from 8 yrs ago, was an absolutely wonderful pet. My wife even thought that particular dogs’ arrival in our family was Divinely inspired, as she gave us comfort through some unusually difficult times. In any case, our dog had an underbite, and the breeder only sold her to us if we would have her spayed. We complied of course, and had a great pet. As a youngster, I remember the family dog was a dalmation(deaf), obtained with the same condition.
Personally, my choice is not to buy a deliberately bred mutt, particularly when pricing is near that of a purebred. I feel better traits can be passed on through more conscientious owners and breeders. I would not try to obligate others to follow my example, I ask only that others consider my opinion.

Rosco_sMom · July 13, 2007, 12:41pm

acinva,

actually as I said 2 posts earlier, there are many breeding designer dogs (and probably more so in the goldendoodle or labradoodle areas, at least from my experience) that DO fit your requirement of requiring their dogs to be fixed…MANY who do early spay/neuter precisely to prevent this problem and keep an uneducated buyer from thinking he/she can just go out and breed his/her new doodle for more money. If you go to the last post on page 3 you will see resources where you can find doodle breeders that fit your definition of reputable and then some!

I think there is a false assumption in “improve the breed” that all breeds must and should exist and need to be continued because it would be immoral somehow not to. Most breeds we have today were “created” or “designed” by humans to fit a certain purpose or appearance or temperament. Most of these breeds were created for a specific job…jobs most dog owners don’t give their dogs. What does “improving the breed” mean for dogs such as French bulldogs…who can’t even breed on their own because a C-section is required for the dame to give birth? Why is a pure breed somehow elevated to this high status? A pure breed is not more worthy or noble than another dog simply because of a pedigree full of the same dogs!

The problem, IMHO, when discussion the goodness/badness of mixing breeds becomes philosophical at its core. It’s not about whether “designer dog” breeders CAN BE or ARE ethical…but whether there a pure breed dog is of higher value than a mixed breed dog. I don’t think there is any qualitative difference aside from personal preference and the actual health/temperament of the dog in question. Labs are not better or worse than beagles. Labs are no better or worse than labradoodles. Labradoodles are not better or worse than labs or poodles. It’s a matter of preference and any of those dogs can be bred with great care or with complete ignorance. Either of those dogs can be bred for the purpose of “easy” and quick cash or because the breeder actually LIKES that breed/mix and enjoys the process of doing a job well done.

churchmusicmom · July 13, 2007, 1:31pm

I have not read all of the posts on this thread, but I have to say that it raises my ire just a bit when dogs that are anything other than “pure bred” and sold by “reputable breeders” are denegrated.

Of course it’s an awful situation when so many animals are euthanized each year…that is why I adopted my beloved dog from the shelter five years ago. She is “mostly” an Australian Shepherd and is absolutely a joy. We would probably have spent less $$ had we gotten a pup from a breeder as my dog was quite ill from being in the shelter. We did spend the money to get her well and of course have her spayed. She is worth every single bit of it and more.

I just think people should try not to sound so arrogant when talking about breeders and their “pure bred” dogs verses those animals who lack that pedigree.

acinva · July 13, 2007, 4:15pm

CMM - sorry I came off as so judgemental. I have volunteered with animal rescue for the past 7 years and I have seen things that would turn your stomach. The average well-meaning person doesn’t know the first things about finding a “reputable” breeder. That’s the sad part. Unfortunately, just this past year, 2 of my daughter’s friends purchased animals from “reputable” breeders. The first one, a cat, has been so ill and brought to the ER numerous times to the tune of $1,000 (that’ doesn’t include her $700 purchase price). The other just purchased a doodle pup that has been sick and cost the friend $400 (not including the $600 purchase price). These girls are educated and animal lovers and felt they were getting what they paid for. There is no where in the contract where there’s a guarantee of health nor a requirement that the animal be spayed. There was no home visit made and the cat was shipped.

Breeders advertise on Craigslist and in newspapers and really, the average person has no idea what to look for in terms of reputable and that’s why backyard breeders continue to stay in business. A good breeder advertises by word of mouth. They do not have litters and then advertise them for sale. … most of their litters, if not all, have already be spoken for before they’re even born.

Like I said in a previous post, 25%-30% of dogs in shelters are purebred who came from unscrupulous breeders purchased by the “average” , well meaning family.

Rosco_sMom · July 13, 2007, 4:48pm

Perhaps nobody has read my post…but there ARE reputable doodle breeders. I posted two websites (several posts ago…page 3) that contain lists of such breeders WITH health guarantees and excellent contracts.

I know I am just ONE person, but my labradoodle breeder DID/DOES have a health guarantee and DID honor it when my dog was diagnosed with entropian eye. The $400 surgery was completely reimbursed by the breeder. If something were to happen to me and couldn’t care for my dog, my breeder would take it back if necessary and help in rehoming. But I KNOW from talking with other owners of these dogs that my dog’s breeder is NOT the only doodle breeder with high standards.

YES there are those who have no health guarantee…do NO testing on their breeding stock, do NO research on the background of their breeding stock, and have no contract like mine did…but those things are easy to discover if one simply ASKS the right questions of the breeder…same question one would need to ask of a pure breed breeder.

I made sure my breeder met certain criteria (this was my first dog and I wanted to be sure I did everything right) and asked for evidence/copies of health certificates, etc. I also drove to pick up my puppy on the premises and saw where he was raised.

I can’t help that other people don’t do their homework and don’t ask for evidence of health standards…but that doesn’t make all doodle breeders somehow unethical money hungry slimeballs. There are dozens of these breeders that have high ethics, standards, TURN DOWN buyers who aren’t qualified puppy raisers, and screen and do their best to breed really healthy puppies.

I’m just surprised that the conversation keeps coming back to the same arguments when I’ve offered solid leads/resources/information to counter those arguments. I am not a breeder, nor do I get paid by breeders to say one thing or another…I am simply a doodle owner who has researched these dogs and breeders extensively.

acinva · July 13, 2007, 5:23pm

Rosco’s Mom - the links you gave were for rescues and shelters looking to place the doodles. They were not links for breeders. The doodles these organizations are trying to place have been dumped there by the irresponsible people who purchased them from irresponsible breeders.

snowball · July 13, 2007, 5:23pm

Rosco’s Mom- I am with you; my breeder for my goldendoodle was more than wonderful. She is a golden retrieve breeder and if I am ever in the market for a golden again, I would buy from her. I also had to give a family history and picked up my doodle in person. We are having a reunion in my city as my breeder has several dogs within a few hour drive. She wants to see all her babies and we want to see our dog’s siblings. It is going to be so much fun!

alwaysamom · July 13, 2007, 5:43pm

acinva, there was a link to a list of breeders given in post # 45. Have a look before you’re so quick to jump on her.

Rosco’sMom, thanks for your posts. Some people just aren’t interested in having a rational discussion on this matter.

acinva · July 13, 2007, 5:56pm

alwaysmom, just because I don’t agree with some of the statements made on this thread doesn’t mean I don’t want to have a rational discussion. Where was I being irrational? I may be guilty of an oversight, but I would hardly describe myself as being irrational. Geesh…

alwaysamom · July 13, 2007, 6:17pm

acinva,

Quotes such as this are not indicative, in my opinion, of a desire for a rational discussion:

“The only reputable breeders are the ones that are trying to improve the breed. Those that are breeding “designer” dogs are no more reputable than a backyard breeder. They’re just adding to the overpopulation – especially because they are not requiring their dogs to fixed.”

Especially when the the information contained therein is not true! You conveniently ignored any of the valid arguments and information which were posted by Rosco’sMom and continued in the arrogant tone that was evident in your previous post.

dmd77 · July 13, 2007, 6:48pm

Rosco’s Mom posted an excellent description of what makes a good breeder. Note that I said a GOOD breeder, not an excellent one. An excellent breeder, IMHO, actively shows her dogs in competition, not just conformation, but obedience or agility or hunting… whatever is appropriate to ensure that her dogs meet the breed standard in performance, not just looks. An excellent breeder keeps her dogs past their retirement from breeder or competition, and doesn’t rehome them just because they have outlived their usefulness.

As for “doodle” breeders, until there is a recognized breed standard that is consistent, you can’t be sure what you’re getting. That’s my problem with that concept. If you meet the dog–not the puppy–you have a better chance. That’s not saying there aren’t wonderful mutts out there.

acinva · July 13, 2007, 7:07pm

alwaysmom, perhaps it is valid to characterize my comments as being arrogant, but I still don’t see me as being irrational.

Rosco_sMom · July 13, 2007, 8:03pm

acinva,

we all make oversights. The IDOG website is primarily involved with rescue/rehome, but if you look through the site carefully you’ll find “owner endorsed breeders” which do have to meet certain criteria. On that website is a listing of doodles who have done therapy work as well as a survey conducted on 700 doodles to collect data regarding where they came from, breeder stuff, etc.

The other website I listed that has “goldendoodle” in its url does indeed list reputable breeders–that one is a good one to peruse. You’ll find breeders of first cross goldendoodles, backcross goldendoodles, first cross labradoodles, backcross labradoodles, multigenerational labradoodles and Australian labradoodles in standard, medium, and mini sizes.

I think it is great for a breeder to show or do work like obedience with their dogs… However I know that many of the doodle breeders have no interest in a breed standard. And that doesn’t bother me for several reasons:

1) Breed standards have ruined some dogs when it comes to breeding for a certain look or body shape and creates a false notion that creating a VERY rigid appearance equates with a superior dog.

2) I LIKE the variations in the first cross doodles. While there is the Australian Labradoodle that sort of has a breed standard…I prefer the wide variety of F1 labradoodles that range between the lab build/coat and the poodle build/coat. I really really do. Different families have different needs and not everyone needs low shed/high grooming…so most of the reputable doodle breeders I speak of can match the various dogs in a litter just fine to families. MOST of the good breeders I speak of usually DO have reservations on a litter before they are born…some have “sold” them all prior to whelping.

3) The major selling point and breeding goal of the labradoodle is a good family pet. Where are there trials in good-family-pet-competition? Yes, a dog that can easily be trained can lead to a good family pet, but MOST of the average pet owner doesn’t have time or desire to do hard core training or compete in obedience…so the argument that a breeder isn’t “excellent” until they compete or show their dogs, while it has a point, isn’t that helpful or convincing to me. It’s okay in my eyes for breeding to be a “business” as long as that business is conducted ethically and the breeder does not get himself/herself into more than he/she can realistically deal with. When a breeder has too many litters to adequately care for or socialize, etc…then it gets questionable. But I know several breeders for whom BREEDING is their life…they immerse themselves in the task and give it their all. Some have day jobs and only have 2-3 litters a year. But I don’t think it should matter HOW many litters they create AS LONG AS it is done with utmost care. For example…multiple litters at a time is questionable to me…such overlapping of litters is immensely difficult to manage for one person…even a family. Cleaning up after pooping puppies, taking care of the momma dog, vetting, etc is not easy work. I admire those who do it well.

anyway, I don’t want to stir things up, but did want to provide information from a doodle-educated perspective and resources to examine to fully research this issue from both sides.

Golden Doodles Anyone?

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