Good "fit" + everything else... but mediocre grades.

Parents Forum
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<p>To answer your question about fit, yes, fit is important to the admissions committee. The problem is that the schools you mentioned have way more applicants who would be a fit than they have room for. They also have way more qualified applicants than they have room for.</p>

<p>I also think Whitman is a match for you, so in my mind you will be accepted there. I agree with you about Lewis and Clark. It isn’t the same kind of school that the others you have mentioned are. Whitman has a very different feel than Lewis and Clark, it’s feels more like the other small LACs you have mentioned. Keep looking for schools that are safeties and matches for you that you are excited about. They are out there, you just haven’t found them yet.</p>

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<p>It’s NOT a safety if you wouldn’t be happy to attend. By definition a true safety is a school that you would like to attend, you can be sure to get into, and your parents can afford. If a school is missing any one of the above criteria, it is not a safety for you.</p>

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<p>lol, had I asked this question/posed my problem of sorts in another subforum - “My Chances” is the one that comes to mind - I probably would’ve gotten replies like “tl;dr” and “your GPA sucks”.</p>

<p>So thank you everyone who posted replies of any sort; y’all have been most helpful and reassuring. It seems that the advice I’ve heard about taking more complex questions to the Parents Forum is very good advice after all…</p>

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<p>I know the dynamic of having all Ivied-up relatives and feeling that you are a failure if you don’t match them. That is to say, my kids and their cousins really, really know it.</p>

<p>You should NOT feel like a failure, regardless of what happens with college admissions. First off, you are obviously a good student, a good writer, and you will have the opportunity to attend a really good college (especially if you don’t have to worry about getting enough aid). Second, your relatives know, or they’ll soon figure out, that they mainly got into the colleges they did in much less competitive times (even if it was only 6-7 years ago).</p>

<p>Third – and trust me on this, I know whereof I speak – your relatives know you and tend to look favorably on you. If you don’t get into Yale, Williams, Carleton, whatever, they are not going to blame you. They will be pretty miffed at Yale, Williams & Carleton. They will swiftly adjust their opinions and loyalties to match your experience. If you wind up choosing, say, Whitman, that will elevate Whitman enormously in their eyes, and they will start going around bragging about Whitman.</p>

<p>My extended family has learned to love a LOT of colleges this way. </p>

<p>Including UVM, as it happens. A whole bunch of my younger cousins have gone there, and about half of them wound up settling in Burlington, they loved it so much. Like, really loved it. Phish, the Canadiens, the whole nine yards. Don’t be too quick to assume you wouldn’t be happy there.</p>

<p>But . . . I assure you when I made my suggestions above I was taking account of your un-CC-PC subtext. Most of those names have enough cachet to make certain that you don’t have to sit at the kids’ table at family reunions. (Colorado College is a good choice, too, a lot like Carleton, but with mountains. See if you can find Gregg Easterbrook’s essay about it somewhere on the web. You can copy it for your family.)</p>

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<p>TG – You mention that financial aid is not an issue for your family. Have you considered whittling your three top choices down to one and applying ED? That could help your chances considerably, especially as a male.</p>

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<p>I’d like to amend my first reply. Amherst would be a reach but you could still include it in your list. Bowdoin and Clark would be reach/match schools in my opinion…especially if you keep up your grades this senior year.</p>

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<p>wjb, the thought of applying to one of my top schools ED definitely crossed my mind and now your bringing it up again made me realize I have another (!) question.</p>

<p>Should I apply ED somewhere without my first semester grades? Or should I wait for my first semester grades to come out (I’m confident I can do really well this year) in an attempt to demonstrate my academic capabilities further?</p>

<p>I’m only hesitant to apply ED because I think that getting straight A’s my first semester is definitely a possibility if my upward trend continues, and I’d like for colleges to be able to see what I’m capable of if I put my mind to it.</p>

<p>Also, your comment “especially as a male” makes me think that being a male will be a big help when applying to primarily, if slightly, female-dominated LACs… is this the case, or is “big help” an exaggeration on my part?</p>

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<p>You are right, TG. ED is not an optimal choice for students who need to fortify their GPAs with first semester senior grades. What about ED II? It looks like Bowdoin and Carleton have ED II. But do first semester grades reach them in time to factor into the admissions decision? Thinking out loud here; I don’t have the answer.</p>

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<p>I know that both Bowdoin and Carleton do have EDII. However, I’d say that my first choice is Williams… but it doesn’t have EDII. </p>

<p>I’m thinking that having my first semester grades in would be beneficial for me, so applying ED1 is something I’m probably not going to do. I’m not sure if my first semester grades will be in by the EDII deadline for these schools; I’ll have to look into that.</p>

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<p>If you did apply ED, I suppose if the college really liked you but were concerned with your GPA, it could always defer you and put you into the RD round where your first semester grades could be taken into consideration.</p>

<p>But if it rejects you outright on the ED round, you’ve lost your chance at that school.</p>

<p>I think I would rather have stellar first semester grades to show colleges on the RD round, even if it meant that I’d be giving up a perceived ED boost.</p>

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<p>Re the male question: How helpful the Y chromosome will be will depend on how hungry the college is for males. I just checked the numbers for your top three choices . Bowdoin and Carleton are both 52% women and 48% men. Williams is an even 50/50. So you’ll get a small tip at B and C, none at W. Compare Vassar, where the ratio of females to males is 60/40. Big tip there.</p>

<p>[U-CAN:University&lt;/a&gt; and College Accountability Network - Free. Easy.](<a href=“ucan-network.org”>http://www.ucan-network.org/)</p>

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<p>^Just as a note, Whitman also has ED II. As others have said, Whitman meets your stated criteria and is more of a match than a reach.</p>

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<p>“I think I would rather have stellar first semester grades to show colleges on the RD round, even if it meant that I’d be giving up a perceived ED boost.”</p>

<p>^ My thoughts exactly. Now to actually get those stellar grades that I think I’m completely capable of…</p>

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<p>Just another vote for applying to Carleton, Williams, and Bowdoin! Your qualifications are fine. Have a few good backups—and there are so many nice LACs that are similar to those three—but with the possible exception of Williams, you are very much in the “qualified” range!!! (And you’re not by any measure “unqualified” for Williams. You’re just more toward the middle of the pack, rather than being a shoo-in.)</p>

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<p>OP said: “The problem with me - and, undoubtedly, many other kids - is that I can’t really see myself attending any of my safety schools.”</p>

<p>(sigh) . . . a safety school is not a consolation award; it’s a school that if you went there you’d like it AND that you stand a better than 75% chance of getting in </p>

<p>So . . .

  1. if you don’t want to go there, take it off your list
  2. only apply to schools that you would be fine with attending </p>

<p>You have been sucked into “there’s only 3 schools that are right for me” trap.</p>

<p>In reality there are probably dozens of schools (out of ~ 3,000 in the US) where you would be happy and would flourish. But you only find that out if you get past the “names” and into the attributes of the schools (e.g., no breadth requirements or core curriculum; close to a Town or out in the boonies; commitment to research opportunities in humanities, strong music program, small class size, athletic opportunities . . whatever your criteria are.) </p>

<p>The P****** Re*** has information about schools that are similar to your Big 3. That’s a good first step toward locating those safeties. </p>

<p>My advice: be at peace with trying to get into your top 3 . . . and read CTCL or similar books that highlight lesser known but stellar schools that share attributes that are important to you.</p>

<p>Good hunting!!</p>

<p>Kei</p>

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<p>^^ The OP has NOT been sucked into the “only 3 schools are right for me” trap. His list also includes a number of matches. He is focusing on his chances at three reaches – choices that certainly don’t sound like pie in the sky. He has improving grades in a tough course load, excellent scores, and he sounds like an interesting kid who will write good essays. </p>

<p>Of course everyone needs safeties. And no, it’s not a safety if you’re unwilling to go there. But to expect kids to “love” their safeties is, IMO, unreasonable.</p>

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<p>Good luck to the OP - I think he will do very well at the admissions game.<br>
I have a question about the ED advice given to OP. It seems OP is a strong candidate, and I would doubt he will be rejected ED - most likely just deferred if he does not make it. In that case, his first semester senior year grades will still help him and he may just get lucky and get in ED. Are my assumptions wrong and deferral/rejection? Are there other factors I am not considering? Also, OP, why not Middlebury? I think you could apply to a few more reaches just in case. Another possible match is Colorado College (perhaps someone mentioned it, I read the thread very fast).</p>

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<ol>
<li><p>The fact that Williams is 50-50 doesn’t mean there isn’t some advantage to being male. Applications seems to run about 54-46 female, but yield is higher among men. That may just be a function of more men being admitted ED as football recruits, but it may also indicate that the men Williams admits have slightly fewer attractive options than the women do.</p></li>
<li><p>As long as you aren’t applying somewhere else ED I, it may make sense to apply to Williams ED I – to signal that it’s your first choice. If you are deferred, that could make a difference in the RD round. If you are rejected ED, you can rest assured that you would have been rejected RD, too, even with great fall grades.</p></li>
<li><p>I don’t think that a student with the OP’s profile needs to dig long and hard, study CTCL, etc., to find appropriate matches and safeties. He’s an ambitious, good student, with passion and nice test scores. His big “problem” is two Cs in 9th grade, which most colleges won’t care about at all. The only reason he has to worry at all is because, well, everyone has to worry about Williams and its ilk (which includes Carleton and probably Bowdoin). But you really don’t have to go all that deep into the usual suspects’ list to find LACs that will want him and his high-scoring Y.</p></li>
</ol>

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<p>It sounds like your school doesn’t have much grade inflation, but if you are in the top 10% that will be clear to colleges. There will also likely be some forgiveness for the lower grades freshman year. My son got into Harvard with a few B’s on his transcript.</p>

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<p>I think there are kids who do love their safety schools. They are the lucky ones.</p>

<p>If you wouldn’t love your safety school, you have to have a likeability index higher than “I can’t really see myself attending there” or “I can see myself attending there but I really wouldn’t be happy.”</p>

<p>It may not be love, but I think you have to at least come to the level of “I can see myself attending there and like it.”</p>