Good "fit" + everything else... but mediocre grades.

Parents Forum
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<p>I’m a soon-to-be high school senior at a top public school in the Northeast, and my top schools choices are Bowdoin, Williams, and Carleton.</p>

<p>Obviously, I like the small college feel. However, another big thing for me is access to opportunities in the outdoors. I’m the founder of my school’s outdoors club, I’ve done some outdoor adventure leadership trips over my freshman/junior summers, and I help out with my local nature conservancy group. It’s evident by these things - and by my interviews I’ve had, in which I’ve discussed my love of the wilderness - that I am immensely passionate about all things nature.</p>

<p>At the schools I mentioned above, I feel as though I’d fit in absolutely perfectly. The student bodies of these institutions are intelligent, active/athletic (I wouldn’t consider myself a jock but I love sports and being active), and when I visited each of these schools, the kids I saw reminded me of myself - I liked that.</p>

<p>My test scores are good (34 ACT, SAT IIs all above 760), my ECs show focus and depth, my essays will be excellent (writing is by far my strongest suit), and my recommendations are also going to be very good (I know for certain that one of my teachers is going to be writing “best in career” sort of stuff)… But my grades aren’t too hot. I’ve taken the most difficult courseload possible, I’m in the top 10% at my school, I have a relatively high weighted GPA, but my unweighted GPA is something like a 3.50, being held down by two C+ grades during freshman year and a few B’s since then. </p>

<p>Here’s my dilemma: I don’t even know if it’s worth it to apply to the three schools I mentioned. I look at the stats of kids who get into these schools and their GPAs are almost always close to a 4.0 . Basically, I’m worried that the most important part of my application (my transcript) is going to hold me back from getting into top schools at which I think I’d fit in perfectly. </p>

<p>Do colleges like the ones I mentioned take “fit” into account? As in, would I (an outdoorsy, athletic, reasonably intelligent kid applying to outdoorsy, active LACs), get in over someone with better grades but none of the outdoorsy activities that I did?</p>

<p>I’m sorry for this being so long, so really, any sort of replies are welcome on the Parents Forum (on the “My Chances” forum there are just too many ignorant posters…)</p>

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<p>These grades sound fine for the schools to which you are applying. 3.5 unweighted GPA is a good GPA.</p>

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<p>Much as I’d like to be able to feel that what you say is completely true, I can’t help but think that my GPA isn’t good enough for these schools… I’ve looked at numerous previous threads that show stats of Williams/Carleton/Bowdoin applicants - both accepted and rejected - and I have yet to see anyone get into these schools with a GPA as low as mine…</p>

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<p>Certainly apply. Those two C+ as a freshman won’t count against you as much as you’ve shown improvement. Just don’t get any this year. Could depend on if the few B’s match up or don’t match up with your intended majors. Rigor of coursework counts a lot. And sell your fit without going overboard.</p>

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<p>If you’re in the top 10%, you should be fine. If the top 10% at your school goes down to 3.5, your school’s teachers are hard graders. Adcoms will know this.</p>

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<p>There are also other schools with excellent outdoor rec opportunities
[The</a> Best Colleges For Outdoor Recreation | Outside Online](<a href=“http://outside.away.com/outside/features/200309/200309_college_towns_1.html]The”>http://outside.away.com/outside/features/200309/200309_college_towns_1.html)</p>

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<p>Your grades and class percentile are competitive for these schools.</p>

<p>The bigger issue for you may be what schools you’re considering for match and safety.</p>

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<p>My two C+ grades came in math and science courses. I’m intending to major in either history, English, or poly sci. It’s extremely evident by my transcript that my strengths lie in the humanities - my only B’s (and those C+ grades) have come from science/math classes.</p>

<p>EDIT: As for matches and safeties, I’m not sure about these either. Would Whitman and Macalester be considered matches? And would UVM be an appropriate safety?</p>

<p>Also, if anyone else has any recommendations for me for matches/safeties, I’m all ears (or eyes, I guess I should say…)</p>

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<p>All of those colleges are popular and tough to get into, but nothing in your presentation screams that you shouldn’t bother trying.</p>

<p>I think UVM would be a complete admissions safety for you, but it doesn’t quite have that small-college feel. Macalaster is probably a match, don’t know about Whitman. Macalaster is one of the few urban LACs around, so I’m not certain what it’s doing on your list.</p>

<p>Obviously, you should consider Colby, too, since it’s more outdoorsy than Bowdoin and a little easier to get into. I would think that would be a solid match.</p>

<p>Other match-to-safety possibilities in the middle of nowhere: Vassar (the Hudson Valley has great rock climbing and other stuff, guys don’t get in free but they are absolutely willing to take a risk for a guy), Hamilton (lots of hiker / camper types, very green), Connecticut College (ditto), Bennington, St. John’s (either one). And if you like Northfield a lot, how about St. Olaf?</p>

<p>I thnk any of these schools would appreciate your outdoorsy interests, but (a) they attract a lot of people like that, so it hardly makes you unique, (b) they probably want a mix of types, including nerds and eggheads, too, as well as kids who may not have had a whole lot of access to things like camping, and (c) they know that college is when a lot of people discover the things you are already into, so that people who don’t have that profile when they apply are going to be officers in their Wilderness Club two years later.</p>

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<p>So that makes these 3 schools your reaches?</p>

<p>Nice . . . great job!!! If you need to check to see if your chances are better than that ask your college counselor to use his/her data or a program like Naviance to explore how your grades compare with others that were accepted there form your or similar high schools.</p>

<p>Then . . what are your safeties?</p>

<p>Kei
“Love Thy Safeties”</p>

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<p>Rigor of school and curriculum count for a lot and if your high school is a top public school in the Northeast, then its profile will be known by the admissions committees at the schools you’ve mentioned. Being in the top 10% at such a school, especially supported by stellar standardized test scores, and having your lower grades earlier in your high school career, is far from the kiss of death for your application. I would certainly apply to these schools because you do have a chance of being admitted.</p>

<p>The other question you raised is an interesting one: Applicants pick colleges based on fit, but do colleges also choose applicants based on whether they will fit in? I think that LACs have the ability to do that holistic hocus-pocus and do make a determination as to whether a person will fit in, be happy at their school and take advantage of what that school has to offer. As to whether that “fit” will be a “hook” to vault you over another candidate, who’s to say? </p>

<p>In the case of split personality applications (GPA and test scores aren’t the same level), it can be difficult to predict where you’ll get in. That’s why it’ll make sense to apply widely and especially to lock in the safety layer. </p>

<p>I’d definitely look at St. Olaf–since you are willing to go to Northfield. One of the most brilliant people I know graduated from there!</p>

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<p>Although Macalester is certainly somewhat of an outlier on my list (as you - JHS - mentioned), I liked it because the proximity to the Twin Cities is nice - though having a city nearby isn’t a necessity for me - and I really liked the neighborhood in which it’s located. Plus, the Boundary Waters aren’t too far away…</p>

<p>I considered Colby as well but I didn’t like the town of Waterville - it was much too industrial-ish for me and I just didn’t like the whole “feel” of it, although I’m still considering the college as what you said about the outdoors there is very true.</p>

<p>Hamilton is another one I’m definitely considering; the others you listed I will have to look into further. Thanks for the suggestions.</p>

<p>EDIT: I’m somewhat afraid to admit it, but another reason why I want to go to a prestigious school (as in, hopefully Williams/Bowdoin/Carleton) is because it’s generally what is expected of me by my parents and family in general. My mom and dad both went to different HYP schools, my aunt went to Columbia, my grandfather went to Yale and was on the faculty there, my grandmother and grandfather on the other side both went to Cornell, one of my cousins attends Cornell now… as you can see, my family is steeped in ‘Ivy League tradition’ I guess you could say, and so if I were to not attend one of the top, top LACs (top 10, say), I’d almost feel like a failure, relatively speaking. Gosh I hate saying that…</p>

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<p>My logic tells me that if you are picked over somebody with 4.0 or close, that person would bring up this to admission. Does admission wants to deal with this obvious unfairness, depends on admission of particular school. Just ask them directly.</p>

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<p>Whitman would definitely be good for you. Have you looked at Colorado College?</p>

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<p>You should check out Whitman College, because it’s likely a match (not a safety) and it offers all the things you say you’re looking for.</p>

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<p>You should definitely apply to your reach schools, but if you are looking for a safety, you might try Earlham College in Indiana. It has that small liberal arts feel you’re looking for, plus an outdoor education minor, a wilderness program and several hundred acres of adjacent forest and meadowland.</p>

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<p>Rubbish, but not an uncommon situation. Using outside metrics to determine self-worth is a recipe for unhappiness. Work on getting over it, starting now! (From someone who didn’t get over it till she turned 28)</p>

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<p>Your grades are good. You came from a tough high school, took the most difficult classes you could, that will count for a lot.</p>

<p>It seems like you want us to tell you whether you will get into your three schools or not and no one can tell you that. We all think you have a chance and that is the most anyone on this forum can tell you. You should apply because if you don’t you’ll always wonder what would have happened.</p>

<p>One thing you didn’t mention is if you need financial aid or not. I mention this because Williams fills up 50% of its freshman class with early decision. The percent of students accepted via early decision to Williams is 40%, from regular decision it is less than 20%. But you can’t go early decision if you need financial aid because if you need financial aid you need to be able to compare packages between schools.</p>

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<p>Yeah, I’m definitely considering Whitman.</p>

<p>Pea - I guess I am looking to know what my chances are, and you are right: I won’t know until I apply. I was really just wondering about how much of an impact on admission one’s “fit” at a particular college has, but that can’t really be answered concretely either.</p>

<p>As for financial aid, I won’t be needing any.</p>

<p>Oh and yet another comment/question of sorts (I hope these aren’t becoming annoying…): I looked at Lewis and Clark as a safety, but wasn’t at all impressed with it. The problem with me - and, undoubtedly, many other kids - is that I can’t really see myself attending any of my safety schools (Lewis and Clark and UVM, for example) because I just didn’t really like them much. On the other hand, I know that I need safeties. I was thinking of Whitman as somewhat of a safety, but, looking by its accepted students’ stats, it’s more of a match for me…</p>

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<p>I have a feeling you’re gonna make it. :)</p>