<p>People have some control over their Who’s Who listing and certainly could correct errors. Also it does not contain heavy personal content such as your politics or social views unless they are really important to who you are–like a politician. OTOH the net scoops together anything you or somebody else may have written about you some of which coud be completely wrong and most of which is really nobody’s business IMHO.</p>
<p>Perhaps it’s not a matter of “creepy” but rather a question of tact? decorum? I’m at a loss for the word - it’s not a matter of privacy expectation, it’s something else. It’s the same feeling I get when I call someone (I’m thinking of a particular someone I call all the time, at a business), and the receptionist always answers my call from the caller ID read: “Hello Latetoschool” is how she’ll answer the phone, instead of the “good morning, ABC Company” etc. how she would answer all other callers. There’s something - well - creepy, icky, yucky, classless (cannot find the right word here) about hearing the phone answered that way. Of course, I totally get that nearly everyone has caller ID - I do too of course - but - even when I know who the caller is, and I’m expecting the call, and I can see it on caller ID, I still answer the phone straight…</p>
<p>Bethievt, I think the difference is that the other information is filtered, edited, selected…google and other search engines make no distinction between legitimate information, and emails or other issues that get caught in their spyders. Example: whether he likes it or not, the gentleman I nominated for that award is now stuck with the information out there for everyone who has a computer or an internet connection to see. I don’t think he’d care - but that’s not the point, rather, the point is that he had absolutely no voice and no control over the matter, and, he’s stuck with my choice, and the choice of the nominating committee. </p>
<p>I once declined a job interview because I googled the person who was the head of the department I’d be working in if offered the job, and, he was at one point replacing the roof on his home, and he posted a question in a home improvement forum, and I didn’t care for the way he talked about his hired labor in that forum. I found his post by googling purely his email address. Today, I would google the company, but not the person, and, I would use professional sources such as associations, legitimate public records, etc. I would ask the person for permission to google them, IF a first meeting was productive and if there was anything I cared to know.</p>
<p>You could be right barrons, but there are no errors in any of my entries, my husband’s or my son’s. They are just from our awards, activities, boards, etc. An accurate picture in our experience.</p>
<p>But, Bethievt, they’re YOUR accomplishments, awards, boards, etc. A footprint of your lives to be proud of, for sure, but, YOURS. The sorts of things to be shared happily, willingly, even proudly, with friends, professional contacts, etc. in polite conversation. In my view, googling the stuff up before even an introduction has taken place is jumping way ahead of the natural progression of social contact. The googler is assuming an intimacy to a space where he or she has not been invited, and may not even be welcome. </p>
<p>Now, if you don’t care, no loss. I don’t really care either, however, I do think it crosses a line to be looking up information on people who are about to be in primary relationships with one’s son or daughter…</p>
<p>In another example, last year, I had a business question that required some mathematical expertise. A poster here responded in PM, and, long story short, her son, a college student, assisted me by providing me with a mathematical response, allowing me to save a contract, and there was significant revenue associated with saving that contract. The poster gave me her son’s full name and mailing address, because I wanted to compensate him for his time. I sent him money. Never once did I even consider googling him. Never once did I even consider googling her. All the information I could have wanted and that answered my business question was contained in the PM exchange. I didn’t need to go looking him up on the internet, or her. Did they google me? Hmmm…maybe, but my tummy says no…</p>
<p>Thanks to this thread, which reminded me to Google my S again (just in case his roommates parents will do that), I just found a nice story and video that a local TV station ran last week about a program my son directed. We had been so busy with the program that we had forgotten to watch it on TV. </p>
<p>It’s fine with me if his prospective roommates or their parents find that story. ;)</p>
<p>" I would ask the person for permission to google them, IF a first meeting was productive and if there was anything I cared to know."</p>
<p>Would a person’s saying, “no” raise any red flags for you?</p>
<p>Personally, I can’t imagine anyone saying “no” unless they had something to hide.</p>
<p>I have never found e-mails or similar things when Googling my name, my H’s name or my S’s name. What you can find are at least one video that features younger S prominently, some newspaper articles that we’ve written, newspaper articles that were about us or included info about us, some awards we’ve won, and some info about H and me related to our work with our alma maters.</p>
<p>If someone asked me for permission to Google me I’d wonder why they thought they needed my permission to get public information.</p>
<p>"But, Bethievt, they’re YOUR accomplishments, awards, boards, etc. A footprint of your lives to be proud of, for sure, but, YOURS. The sorts of things to be shared happily, willingly, even proudly, with friends, professional contacts, etc. in polite conversation. "</p>
<p>The point, however, is that for those things to be on Google, in virtually all cases (except apparently for people whose ancient e-mails got on Google), they have to be public information. Lists of board members, for instance, are public. When awards are handed out, those, too, are public. Typically board members are listed on company or organizations’ web pages. Awards are also on organizations’ web pages and are listed in newspaper articles. Whether or not one chooses to tell one’s friends such info, they easily can find it out even if they aren’t doing a Google search on you.</p>
<p>Unless one lives a very unusual life, a Google search won’t reveal info about privatethings like your sex life or drinking habits. Of course, if you’re a movie star or rock star, that “private” info may be readily available.</p>
<p>Northstarmom, perhaps it’s a matter of decorum, and courtesy. For example, when in a business meeting, if a corporate officer is giving me information that is going to help me help with whatever it is they called me to do for them, I’ll ask “may I take notes?” or perhaps “with your permission I’d like to take some notes” and of course they always say YES. It would be really, really weird if they said NO - after all, they called me to solve some problem. I have to take the notes in order to figure out what it is they need. But it would seem weird - and intrusive - and assumptive - to just whip out a legal pad and begin writing down their business information without seeking their permission to do so, even if we already have NDA in place. </p>
<p>It’s sort of like if you’re a guest in someone’s home for the first few times - do you ASK to use the bathroom - or - do you just go bumbling around helping yourself to it, knowing that’s it’s perfectly logical that your host will of course accept the fact that at some point during your visit you may need to use the bathroom? Obviously, it would be really, really weird if your host said “no, you may not use the bathroom, try the gas station down the street”, but, you would still ASK, wouldn’t you?</p>
<p>"For example, when in a business meeting, if a corporate officer is giving me information that is going to help me help with whatever it is they called me to do for them, I’ll ask “may I take notes?” </p>
<p>I wonder if what we’re discussing are regional differences. I have never asked to take notes in the situation that you describe. I think it’s normal and expected to take notes. In fact, I would view someone who asked as being passive. I have worked for a while in the corporate office of a Fortune 500 company, and also have been an executive at a company affiliated wtih it.</p>
<p>Our different perspectives reminds me of a recent experience. “Bob,” who is in a leadership organization with me, also is an alum of one of my alma maters. I had given him info about a rather exclusive alma mater-related listerv that he was qualified to join by saying he was referred by another alum.</p>
<p>A year later, Bob called me and asked me to contact the listerv head (another alum) to ask him if Bob could call him to talk about a project.</p>
<p>Although I repeatedly told Bob that such a call wasn’t necessary since he already was on the exclusive listerv, he kept asking me to call the listserv head, whom I happened to have gone to school with more than 30 years ago, and haven’t seen since. I knew that all Bob had to do was pick up the phone to call his fellow alum, which is what he finally did, and got a warm reception. </p>
<p>Anyway, Bob’s requests irritated me. I would be equally irritated if someone asked permission to Google me or to take notes when I was giving them info at a meeting.</p>
<p>Well, I belong to another online discussion list, connected with the work I do, a list where people actually use their real names. The posts on that list are archived, so anything you post will forever be saved on Google. You’d think that would make posters nicer and carefully edit what they say, before they say it, but–oddly enough-- that seems to have no effect.</p>
<p>Also, I took a course once from someone fairly well known (in his field). I subsequently wrote a letter to the person. It was nice, but I sure don’t remember it as being very meaningful. Many years later, purely by accident, I ran across the person’s name in connection with the donation of all his personal papers to his alma mater. I was stunned when I happened to run across my name included in this permanent collection (all on Google). I looked up the information to see what possible connection I had with this, and it turned out to be the letter I had written-- years ago. He had included it in his personal papers. I assumed he’d died and someone had simply gathered up all his papers and made the donation, but turns out he’s stlll very much alive, so it was a conscious decision. I did find that a little scary.</p>
<p>I am forever amazed by the amount of personal information that’s really out there on the internet-- absolutely mind-boggling the amount of trivia, too, and I guess it just stays there forever. ??</p>
<p>Northstarmom, I am a ceo of a successful operation, there is no danger anyone will ever perceive me as passive, however, in your example, I find Bob’s approach somewhat appropriate, but also somewhat off. I would have asked you for an introduction, and, had you responded that I should reach out to the person directly, I would have said something like “may I use your name” or “may I say that you referred me”. Again, the assumption is of course I can, but, I would ask. I wouldn’t ask repeatedly though, I would ask exactly once. In your example, Bob does come across as passive, timid even, considering that you told him the appropriate approach and he kept asking. </p>
<p>By the way, the most recent person to ask permission to google me - just a few weeks ago - has a Ph.D., is an officer in the military, and holds a reasonably high position. The venue where he asked the question was at a meeting in the Pentagon. He has access (I assume) to some of the most sensitive information in the world, but, still, he asked permission. Whether or not I really believe he hadn’t already done the googling (or perhaps even far more intrusive checks) and the asking was just posturing on his part is beside the point - the point is that he had the courtesy to ask me. Oh, and I don’t think anyone would ever consider him passive, either! </p>
<p>Jack, the stuff is out there forever and ever, amen. But as a matter of course, when I am doing a search, I don’t use google, instead I use jux2.com. It grabs everything and ranks it in order…you get google along with ranked results from other search engines.</p>
<p>latetoschool: Oh, thanks for the jux2.com information. I’ll definitely check that out. ;)</p>
<p>" would have said something like “may I use your name” or “may I say that you referred me”. Again, the assumption is of course I can, but, I would ask" </p>
<p>Yes, that would have been fine even though he already had used my name to get on the listsev.</p>
<p>What was over the top was wanting me to contact the other guy and ask if Bob could call him. That’s what seemed silly to me. </p>
<p>Adding to what I think was silly was Bob asking me to meet him for breakfast to discuss his project, which, he said, had something to do with housing. I am not a morning person. There was no indication that Bob planned to pay. The breakfast would have been located close to Bob, but far from me. I know nothing about housing, and told Bob that, but Bob insisted that he wanted my opinion. Then, Bob e-mailed me to change the time to a completely different time and day, and had someone else contact me when I didn’t show (because I’d never seen the e-mail).</p>
<p>The problem here is that, thanks to swiftly-evolving on-line technology, the horse has already long since left the barn. Agonizing over closing the barn door isn’t going to change anything. You folks with all the disapproval, doubts, and anguish are struggling to hang on to a degree of privacy that no longer exists and a sense of decorum or etiquette that never did exist. They’ve both been trumped by the technology.</p>
<p>Some people will always misuse reference tools. Some people will use the college admissions process unfairly. All things considered, I have trouble believing I’m one of those people.</p>
<p>Cross-posted with corueur</p>
<p>I’m afraid he’s right. We’re not going to turn back the clock and we’re not going to make things all fair and tidy. It’s worth the good fight, though, to try to improve what we can.</p>
<p>I have Googled various people at times, for example - a specialist my mother was referred to by her doctor and a former coworker to see where she was now working - and have found both of them on lists of donors to various political causes. I guess this is published information. I was not trying to learn their political views, but I inadvertently found out this information.</p>
<p>It’s not googling anyone in your own life - social, business or political - that concerns me. It’s googling someone in your practically-an-adult child’s life that makes me pause. </p>
<p>“Now, if you don’t care, no loss. I don’t really care either, however, I do think it crosses a line to be looking up information on people who are about to be in primary relationships with one’s son or daughter…”</p>
<p>BINGO!!</p>
<p>Does anyone else hear the whirring of parental helicopter blades??</p>
<p>To those parents who want to google their kids roommates–how about the courtesy of asking them or at least your own kid if they would mind??</p>
<p>^^Sure, just google them up to find out their e-mail address and then send an e-mail to to ask permission.</p>
<p>As much as you might wish, there is no way to put the Google genie back in the bottle. No amount of complaining, scolding, and disapproving is going to turn back the clock.</p>
<p>The only way that the practice of people Googling one another is going to die out is if something even more powerful, and hence probably even more intrusive, comes along.</p>
<p>Coureur, it’s not a matter of putting a genie back in a bottle, but rather, the shift I am seeing (at least in business) is a movement towards strategically leveraging technologies as tools to serve us, but, putting them back in their proper place as, well, tools, and assigning priority back to the humanity of personal interaction. </p>
<p>Example: I wanted to sign up for an online course in intellectual property law. It’s $700, and, I’m willing to spend that, if I can properly credential the course, and the professor. Some problems though: the textbook to be used with the course was published in 1992, and I know that IP has evolved significantly since then. But the bigger problem is the professor himself - jux2(which captures google) yields about five hits for him - and he’s a lawyer. So I sent to him an email asking for his CV; he returns with a wonderful CV and he has ten times the credentials that I have. So something’s wrong - he is my age, very experienced and credentialed, but no internet presence. Very odd for a lawyer, 40-ish years old. Red flag, in my opinion, and, an appropriate use of modern technology - he is selling a product, I am interested in buying it, so, it is entirely appropriate for me to do some due diligence. I did check with the bar association where he is a member and very spartan information there as well. But outside of that - he should have more than five hits on google or any other search engine. In this example my use of google to check him out is logical and appropriate. </p>
<p>In a comparative example, my daughter left for her new job one week after graduation, in a city about 1500 miles from home. She calls home and tells me about this and that and the other about her new boss, a lawyer. Many of the things she tells me are very interesting and exciting - new opportunities her boss is introducing her to, people she is getting to meet, and activities that she is getting involved in because of her boss. I could, of course, google up the boss and read all about her - but - I won’t. In the first place, it’s not MY relationship; and, I trust what I raised to make appropriate business decisions and to align herself with credible people. But more importantly, it’s far more fun and interesting to wait for the next telephone call from my daughter, and evaluate this new lawyer boss through the lens that is my daughter’s perspective. At the end of the day, my daughter’s perspective is the only one that matters. This isn’t a matter of putting a genie back in a bottle, it’s a matter of respecting a daughter’s judgment and course of action, of trusting her to properly manage her business affairs, or, if she doesn’t manage them properly and ends up in an unprofitable business arrangement, trusting her to work her way out of it (sort of like trusting a college student to properly manage a difficult roommate situation), but most importantly, it’s a matter of waiting until another person chooses to freely share information, vs. stalking for it, or inserting myself into a situation where I have not been specifically invited. </p>
<p>As it relates to strategically leveraging technologies, I am noticing more and more of my peer group turning off blackberries, as well. It used to be that none of us went anywhere without them and we checked them and used them obsessively. We also thought nothing of talking on our phones in public places. More and more though we are turning these things off, refusing to check in on weekends, and refusing to have telephone conversations in public places where we might cause “noise pollution”. </p>
<p>It was also unheard of just a year or so ago to go into a meeting without having reviewed websites, done research (including googling) the attendees, etc. I don’t do any of those things any more. Instead, I relate directly to the people, on a very human level. I just simply go talk, and listen to, the people. The websites and search engines will be there for me, if I decide they are necessary at some later time. It’s an overall shift towards getting back to basic courtesy, to relating to people, and using technological tools appropriately but without allowing them to replace human social interaction.</p>
<p>You’re right the genie is out of the bottle, and we’re not going to
go back to a more private time, but I think the manners around
these new technologies is lagging the social possibilities.</p>
<p>So we have discussions like these to develop a sense of what is acceptable.
It reminds me of camping. Sure you are all there living in the open, but when
we took our kids camping when they were little we taught them rules like:
never walk through or shine a flashlight into someone else’s campsite. You
could, but you don’t.</p>
<p>I think latetoschool is right about asking permission. An old friend asked
me recently what husband does and I replied “his last name is ____
(different from mine); go ahead and google him”. So I offered permission
to google right away, knowing the first hit is a pretty complete bio.
That way my friend didn’t have to feel wierd about it, and could get more
information than would fit comfortably in a conversation.</p>
<p>Anyway, great discussion.</p>
<p>"I think latetoschool is right about asking permission. An old friend asked
me recently what husband does and I replied “his last name is ____
(different from mine); go ahead and google him”. "</p>
<p>I don’t understand why you didn’t just answer the question. Why would you refer a friend to Google to find out info you could just give your friend a simple answer. </p>
<p>If I asked a friend what their husband did, I wouldn’t want an answer that is a complicated bio. I’d just be asking a casual, friendly question and would expect an answer like, “works in sales for XX company”, “is a professor who works at XXX university and teaches XXX”, “works for the city government as an accountant.” I wouldn’t be interested in seeing the husband’s resume, list of professional papers or honors and awards. </p>
<p>Sending someone to Google for the answer to find out about your spouse seems to me like trynig to find a way to brag without looking like you’re bragging. It also seems like oneupmanship since there probably isn’t extensive info on Google about most of your friends’ spouses.</p>
<p>Your post made me think about whether I’ve ever Googled a friend’s spouse. I can’think of only one time . If I’ve wanted to know something about a friend’s spouse, I’ve simply asked them. If they had replied by referring me to Google, I’d wonder about the extent of our friendship and why they hadn’t chosen to answer a simple, friendly question.</p>
<p>The only time I’ve Googled a friend’s spouse was after I looked at the homepage of a local university and found out that one of my friend’s spouses had won a major national prize for a fiction book that I had never known that he was writing. I e-mailed him congratulations, and Googled to find out more about the book, which I also asked him more about in person.</p>
<p>All of this discussion has helped me realize one thing: If I initially learned about S’s roommates by meeting them, I doubt if I would bother to Google them. The way that the system works, however, is that one learns the roommates names and hometowns weeks before one meets them. </p>
<p>Some parents have kids who eagerly contact their students and then pass on interesting info about them. Some parents have studetns who are like my older S and his roommate who never bothered to contact each other at all. Some have students like my younger S, who probably will contact his roommate, but will pass along only the vaguest description because “Mom, you know I can’t describe people,” and he really can’t. If I had a student who would contact their roommate and get into a 2-hour IM or call with their roommate, and then pass on to me some interesting info, I’d probably not bother with Googling the roommate.</p>