<p>One open question has been whether high fraternity/sorority binge drinking is a factor of membership per se, or simply a matter of the people they (want to) attract - in other words, self-selection. (I don’t even imagine a self-selection bias in sexual abuse, which makes me shudder. I expect, however, that researchers are indeed working on this question.) Researchers have been hard at work on this one: <a href=“http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2706006/[/url]”>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2706006/</a></p>
<p>I make no assumptions about fraternity members, or sorority members. I look at the data (otherwise I might make assumptions - positive or negative.) As I noted (“And it doesn’t take anything away from frats who raise money, or successful sorority sisters. Or the acquisition of leadership or other skills.”), I DO assume that fraternity and sorority members participate in other activities, and I DO assume that many are successful (and I don’t control for family income, race, or family connections). </p>
<p>I can cite several dozen other studies, but I make the assumption that you aren’t interested. (Forgive me if I’m wrong.)</p>
<p>All absolutely irrelevant to whether one should list an office held in a sorority on a graduate school application.</p>
<p>As they say, know your audience. A Duke lacrosse playing fraternity man who was President of the Republican club will be DOA in some appplication scenarios, just as the math and robotics club oboe player might.</p>
<p>The OP’s question was whether to list sorority membership/leadership position on an application for graduate school. Listing membership/leadership in a sorority is not what will get someone into graduate school, especially not someone looking to get a doctorate in the arts and sciences. GRE/GPA, strong LORs, research experience, publications, etc. are the kinds of things with which folks who sit on graduate admission committees in arts and sciences concern themselves. </p>
<p>That fact doesn’t mean that sorority membership would be a black mark. Men and women in the Greek system who have strong credentials in the areas cited above get into graduate school just as those with strong credentials who aren’t in fraternities or sororities get into graduate school. To get back to the original question: sorority membership/leadership is not the lynchpin to getting into a graduate program in arts and sciences. Including it as an EC is not going to help and it’s not going to be a black mark.</p>
<p>Since the majority of Americans consume alcohol, mini’s blather about fraternities and alcohol is somewhat irrelevant. An informed application reviewer would expect that any given applicant is more likely to drink than not. And so what?</p>
<p>So? Is that how you normally operate, mini – you stereotype people on the basis of the group that they are in? While we’re at it, if you see the name Rubinstein on the resume, you might as well assume he’s cheap; if you see O’Leary, he must be a drunk; if you see Li, he must be a real grind who was pushed by his parents; if you see Lombardi, he must be in the mob; and if you see Hollingsworth, he must be a snobby blue-blood prep who has had everything handed to him. That’s about the level of critical thinking you are exhibiting here.</p>
<p>Nonsense. The real reason not to list Greek membership / leadership is the risk that the person will run into someone like you, who does have prejudice that Greek organizations are the sole province of beer-swilling date-rapists and ditsy, loose sorority girls who are too busy applying lipstick to open a book, and you would therefore “ding” the person on that dimension before getting to know them in any way. In that regard, you really aren’t different from the stereotypical interviewer who sees that the name of the kid he’s interviewing next is Li and assumes, without a shred of evidence other than his own prejudice, that the kid must therefore be a nerdy grind who’s been pushed and prodded towards academic achievement by his parents his entire life.</p>
<p>Just got talking to my D. who still praise her sorority experiences as one of the most valuable and positive in her UG years. Learned a lot of valuable skills, made lots of close friends, still very much in touch with many. They take care of each other even if they came from different UG, more so even from different sorority. Seems that just being part of any sorority links them in a future. Any way, she has definitely mentioned this one and DID NOT mention her 3 Foreign languages because supposedly application was getting too long. Figure out this one!!! Languages are still a big advantage, more opportunities and positive comments while in Med. School. She stil values sorority experiences over her languages, which sometime simply get mentioned casually, like nothing special.</p>
<p>I don’t believe anything of the sort. Carry on. I fully understand and appreciate your need to stereotype me.</p>
<p>I don’t stereotype. I look at the data. If you are prejudiced against the data, that’s not my concern.</p>
<p>And as I noted previously, listing the sorority office on the grad school resume would be no different for me than listing any other social club, or any other activity unrelated to what the grad school was looking for in a potential student. (And that’s why I said, twice, that a faculty advisor could help with this.) I also wrote that it might be different if the applicant was able to positively include in an essay or somewhere how that activity would contribute to her work as a grad student. AND, as I also wrote, sororities (like those other activities) can. But without the explanation, I cannot for the life of me figure out how the listing could help, and I imagine it could (very briefly) evoke a negative response.</p>
<p>It doesn’t have anything to do with drinking at all.</p>
<p>And I stand by what I said. I would see it as a (very brief and mild) negative (as I would any other social club, athletic participation, etc.) unless I knew why the applicant thought it was relevant to being a grad student in my field of study. </p>
<p>If you are interested, I am sure you will examine the reams of data yourself. </p>
<p>(And the positives and negatives of sorority membership are not the subject of this forum; listing on a graduate school application is. If you want to discuss women in the Greek system, set up a new thread.)</p>
<p>"I can’t get over the fact that mini called sorority women “skanks’”</p>
<p>Please quote me accurately. The entire paragraph, please. (I guess the part about “leadership” and “successful” gets in the way…)</p>
<p>Actually, thinking about it, being in a fraternity seems like it should be a positive. I mean, it shows they’re able to be high achievers, and they’re already used to the binge drinking atmosphere of grad school!</p>
<p>Oh pardon me, mini did say that not all sorority women are skanks! Wow, what a great guy. Who would have guessed these are the thoughts of a man who has two wonderful daughters. I wonder if he thinks any of their friends are skanks.</p>
<p>I understand that your prejudice is so severe that you are afraid to even quote me:</p>
<p>" Doesn’t at all mean that there isn’t the sorority out there that doesn’t feed the sick, cloth the hungry, and heal the naked. Nor that sorority members can’t or don’t learn leadership and other important skills. Nor that all sorority members are skanks. Nor that sorority members aren’t “successful”.</p>
<p>“I make no assumptions about fraternity members, or sorority members. I look at the data (otherwise I might make assumptions - positive or negative.) As I noted (“And it doesn’t take anything away from frats who raise money, or successful sorority sisters. Or the acquisition of leadership or other skills.”), I DO assume that fraternity and sorority members participate in other activities, and I DO assume that many are successful (and I don’t control for family income, race, or family connections).”</p>
<p>I think it bugs you that I am not against sorority membership.</p>
<p>What’s considered seriousness of purpose/relevance for professionally-oriented graduate programs…especially ones like MBA or Law would be very different than say… </p>
<p>Arts & Science oriented PhD programs studying things like Influences of Marxist-Leninist-Maoist ideology in Latin American Political movements in the mid-late 20th century, devising ways to design and refine digital signal processors in Electrical Engineering, Psychological implications/study through the use of Shakespearean plays in English lit, the influence of Tang Legal structures on the early Japanese political/legal institutions in Japanese Politics/East Asian Studies, devising more effective mathematical algorithms/processors for creating/programming stronger security encryption protocols in internet/wireless communications in Electrical Engineering/CS, etc. </p>
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<p>Very accurate if we’re talking MBA students…especially from the endless complaints I’ve heard from Columbia SEAS alums and later, witnessed firsthand at Columbia Business School where it seemed they held noisy weekly parties even during midterm/finals week. </p>
<p>Was a big sore point with many SEAS alums I knew of…especially considering the main SEAS building was located right next to Uris Hall…the main Business school building on campus.</p>
<p>Oh please! I can just imagine what would have happened if your daughters had wanted to join sororities. (I realize Smith doesn’t have them. I don’t know about American one way or the other.) It doesn’t fit the image you want to cultivate about yourself and your family.</p>
<p>I can’t figure out why being greek would be a plus or a minus in grad school applications, personally, unless it was MBA or Law School, where your life is going to be built on using social connections as a part of your career and you’d better damn well be good at it.</p>
<p>But, for anything else, it’s no different than being a member of a country club. You wouldn’t put your country club membership on your resume, though you might network with the people you meet there.</p>