<p>If you are one of those whose Greek experience was positive, virtuous, and uplifting, or your kid’s is/was, good for you. But college Greek organizations will never shed their negative reputation so long as they collectively keep living up to it. Check out these news headlines, all of them recent and none of them from Dartmouth: </p>
<p>It’s the constant and endless supply of news stories such as these that will prevent frats and sororities from gaining the public respect their boosters think they deserve. The OP was right to be concerned enough to ask the question.</p>
<p>And in case you think this bad reputation is merely the creation of sensationalistic news media, click around this site and take a look at what frats interests are and what they post about themselves:</p>
<p>coureur,
There are something like 1 million students active in college fraternities and sororities at any one time, so stories such as those you’ve posted involve a tiny percentage of Greek participants.</p>
<p>I think that if Greek organizations were to clean themselves up and eliminate their role as major platforms for partying and enablers of binge drinking, and all the other misbehavior that goes with it, and instead concentrated on being a positive support system for their members and on doing all the Good Works they supposedly perform, their reputations would quickly undergo an enormous improvement. And the OP would not feel the need to ask the question she did.</p>
<p>Whatever is people’s view about college student’s issues with alcohol and sex can’t be solved by eliminating the Greek life. Many people may think by changing the drinking age to 21 helped the issue quite a bit, but I think it is a cause of student’s binge drinking and pre-gaming. Drinking/partying has not gone away because of drinking age or restrictions place by parents/school administration, it has just gone underground. Cornell started to prohibit and shut down many on campus fraternity parties after few incidences on campus, hoping it would cut down on drinking. In reality, those registered/public fraternity parties (used to be supervised by the school) are now held off campus with a lot less supervision from the school. </p>
<p>Just few days ago, D1 told us that some of her friends (out of college) are still doing shots before they went out because they were so used to pre-gaming since high school(many of those friends went to schools with no Greek life). They have been accustomed to drink before they went out because for fear of not able to get another drink once they were out. I partied heavily in college, but it never crossed my mind to pre-game before I went out. Once out of college, due to work and family obligations, I just didn’t have as much time to drink or party.</p>
<p>I spoke with H about this recently due to various threads about drinking. He said we have always treated alcohol as food, as part of our life to enjoy, just like ice cream, meat, bread. We could easily binge on ice cream just as well as on alcohol, but we don’t, and that’s what we teach our kids, everything in moderation, never prohibition.</p>
<p>I would almost bet that % of students who drink at Williams is probably just as high as at a school like Colgate with Greek life. I think schools could work with Greek organization better to provide a safer environment for students to party instead of just pushing it off campus (not my problem/liability).</p>
<p>From what I understand, the drinking at Williams is horrendously out of control.</p>
<p>And this makes it no different than any other college in the country.</p>
<p>They should just lower the beer and wine age to 19 and make it sane again. When we visited McGill, it was just so civilized. The whole thing needs an overhaul, imho.</p>
<p>This seems to have gone to a different land. The original question was to mention or not Greek participation on application.<br>
Everything else is external to this question. Anybody with experience? I can only tell from D’s experience, there were NO negatrive consequences from mentionning participation in a leadership of sorority. More so, from my D’s comment (Third year Medical Student), she still believes that it was one of the most valuable experiences in her UG years. Besides all the “partying and clubbing” mentioned above, I would like to point out that my kid graduated Summa Cum Laude (GPA=3.98), Phi Beta Kappa, had only 3 A- in her 4 year of college, she graduated also with minor in un-related area (Music) and had a great choices of Medical Schools (in top 20). Greek DID NOT prevent her from achieving her goal, not only that, but also provided her the opportunity to learn very valuable skills in communication area primarily and precious memories (including trip to national convention).
There is no reason to blame the system in this case, put the blame where it belongs.<br>
But agian, it is not the topic of this thread.</p>
<p>Perhaps one shouldn’t put having gone to Williams on an app, as one might then think the person to be an out-of-control drunk. I mean, it’s just the statistics, right?</p>
<p>I know as I’ve been to several and they’re great. However, MIT students don’t hold them during midterms/finals week in such an inconsiderate manner that they disturb other schools and their students. Granted, a part of it is due to the differing geographic layout so parties are held away from academic classrooms/research buildings. </p>
<p>Moreover, the Columbia MBA parties I’ve seen and crashed a few times were far noisier and on many occasions went on day & night. </p>
<p>MIT parties tend to be evening/nightly affairs. :)</p>
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<p>At least at the Oberlin of my undergrad days, the partying scene I saw was limited to dorm parties where they mostly served fresh fruit punch, soft drinks, and played a mix of folk guitar music, 80’s, etc. </p>
<p>Also, weed and psychedelics, not alcohol were the prime vices of choice on campus. And it was pretty obvious from the strong l’odor d’weed. </p>
<p>IME, dealing with stoned students was far easier and less aggravating than dealing with drunken students…especially the ones in the Boston area at schools like BC and BU. Stoned students minded their own business, stayed out of your way, and didn’t start aggressive BS which required my calling the cops on a few drunken rowdy undergrads in the Boston area when they hassled me/other passersby.</p>
<p>I guess the agenda now who can put the others as low as possible, just bang, bang, push push, maybe they dissappear underground. Who cares they are out of control or they are under control? I bet you can find both types in any sorority.
OP was not about Greek life, it was about application to Grad. School.</p>
<p>True and most of us already gave our takes on it.</p>
<p>One factor of mine is that it depends on what type of grad school. </p>
<p>Professionally oriented ones…especially law or MBA…great positive. </p>
<p>Arts & Science academic ones…especially PhD programs…totally depends on which faculty members are reading the apps and it’s a bit of a risk considering only a few such Profs with anti-fraternity/sorority prejudices/feelings are enough to sink one’s app. </p>
<p>Although I don’t agree with mini’s more absolute take that its always/mostly a slight negative, he does have a point that many academic grad program faculty app readers WILL WONDER what relevance listing a fraternity/sorority affiliation/officer role has on the academic field of study one hopes to do an MA/MS/PhD in.</p>
<p>That is fine and what is also absolutely fine is that we do not need to agree, we can share our own experiences and keep our own opinions, we do not need to change them, I hope everybody agree with this.</p>
<p>Let’s be clear: my suggestion that it might be a slight (and brief) negative had absolutely nothing to do with the nature or reputation of sororities, positive or negative. It had to do with listingany activity unrelated to the graduate course of study without explanation of what it might add - be it the stamp society, badminton team, college tour guide, basketweaving, or investment or other social club.</p>
<p>That makes sense. If adcoms are not interested then it is pointless to list ECs. I wonder why OP asked. Did she see it on her D’s grad school application?</p>
<p>“My Daughter is applying to grad school and is wondering if listing a position held in a sorority is seen as a positive or a negative to admissions counselors? In other words, is being a member of a sorority at a “party school” likely to have the admissions folks conclude that my Daughter is a partyer, which she is not.”</p>
<p>There were actually two questions, and a misunderstanding.
The misunderstanding was that there were such things as admissions counselors in graduate programs.
The first question was whether “listing a position” in a sorority might be seen as a positive or negative.
The second question was whether being a “member” (not an office holder) at a “party” school might cause admissions folks to conclude she’s a partyer.</p>
<p>Probably not, but the converse statement is certainly true - that most of people’s issues with Greek life could easily be solved if the Greek organizations got out of the business of sponsoring one drunken bacchanalia after another and quit being enablers and promoters of casual sex, binge drinking, and illegal underage drinking.</p>
<p>If they did that Greek organizations’ reputation would be much improved, and perhaps even downright admirable. And the OP’s question had to do with the reputation of a sorority.</p>
Are you saying non-Greek organizations (or just students in general) do not do that? Do you know how much sports team members party? What about band? I can just as easily that if parents did a better job of bringing up their kids, maybe there wouldn’t be as much binge drinking or casual sex (some people actually think it is fun, and I am ok with it). I say take some ownership in your parenting instead of trying to place blames on other people. No one can enable you to do anything if you don’t want to do it.</p>
<p>No, I’m not saying that at all. You keep arguing about that point as though I said it, which I have not. </p>
<p>More more time: I am NOT saying that if Greeks got out of the business of sponsoring and promoting substance abuse and casual sex that those things would go down. What I am saying is that if Greeks did that then their public reputations would go up.</p>
<p>And that improved reputation would make the OP’s concerns about putting her Greek affiliation on her apps or resume go away.</p>