<p>At my children’s school grades are reported at midterm and end of term. Oftentimes the grades are a surprise. What is your experience? At our public school they have had online grades for years updated every couple of weeks so no real surprise. </p>
<p>We were talking to one of our sons teachers and he used the word “give” when talking about a grade as in Mr Smith wouldn’t give him a “C” - even though that is how the student was tracking. What is your sense at your kid’s school - are grades earned, I’d there transparency or are they given?</p>
<p>I’ve been viewing it as more the way my college teachers used to give grades. Rather than a simple calculation of points earned, the grade takes into consideration intangibles like class participation and improvement across the term. In my son’s case, his grade has almost always been what he expected or a pleasant surprise. However, that may just be Harkness.</p>
<p>The transparency of grades in public schools is a part of the “accountability movement” that has grown out of NCLB. Teachers are often on the defensive and making grades transparent is part of their defense. It has been very labor intensive for most teachers to maintain meaningful transparency for the large numbers of families they serve. Conversely, private schools tend to maintain a higher trust level/less adversarial relationship with their stakeholders, in large part because the quality of interaction is more fluid because there are simply fewer families to be accountable to. It’s more complicated than this, but the point is that the transparency of PS reporting is more quantitative but not necessarily better.</p>
<p>Private school teachers have more autonomy. Some teachers are known to be hard graders. Some teachers like to start with hard grading to get the kids’ attention. At any rate, the teachers are not tied to a rigid grading system.</p>
<p>I consider the teachers’ comments to be more important than the letter grades. </p>
<p>If you worry about grades and college placement, remember that the college admissions offices know these schools very well. The colleges often assign specific schools to admissions officers, so, for example, Officer Jane Doe might be responsible for Exeter and the state of Ohio, and Officer John Doe is responsible for Andover and Southern California. That means all the applications for the schools are read by people who know individual teachers’ grading patterns. I think a good recommendation from a known tough teacher means a great deal.</p>
<p>Grade transparceny is very low at the school my child attends. It seems way to subjective and variable and as a parent you become concerned about whether the school is playing favorites - lets help this child get into an Ivy.</p>
<p>Agree with periwinkle that colleges know more about each school’s teachers and grades, etc. but I don’t see this as a substitute for transparency.</p>
<p>Wow it sounds like our kids might be at the same school LC. We sound cynical, but I met with an administrator at my child’s school who said it was a problem - that some teachers had a fudge factor (her word not mine) that they insisted on baking into their grades. I don’t have a problem with a small class participation grade but as the administrator said to me how the student was performing towards that part of the grade should be known and not a surprise at the end. </p>
<p>I also realize that grades aren’t the be all end all, but at our kid’s school enrollment in AP classes is limited and grades from the past year play in. If the different teachers in say grade 10 English have different fudge factors and approaches to grading it can result in a student not being able to take an AP class. </p>
<p>Also realize that AP classes aren’t the be all either, but at our school the AP teachers are excellent (a PHD, published author, etc. the teachers you want yor kid to have) and the non-AP teachers often are brand new or maybe not as committed as their peers). Again I know I sound cynical but there is an impact. </p>
<p>Why is it so hard to use some sort of online book to report progress throughout the term?</p>
<p>As a teacher who has graded both ways, I can see the pros and cons of transparency. In my situation (low to middle achieving students), grade transparency is generally the way to go, as knowing that they are failing is often the only way to get students to do their work.</p>
<p>On the other side, though, with brighter, highly motivated kids, the fudge factor is often helpful. In my experience as a parent, teacher, and student, I’ve never seen the fudge factor work against a kid. Rather, it’s been a way to bring a B+ student who is always involved in class to an A-. The other nice thing about fudge factor is that it can be used to award improvement. As it stands, I’ve had excellent writers who took a while to get into the swing of class activities end up with a B in my classes because they missed or messed up smaller assignments at the beginning of the semester. With transparent, online grades, the grade is the grade…</p>
<p>So I’d say, watch out for what you wish for, especially with bright, motivated students–that fudge factor may actually be helping your child in ways that you don’t realize.</p>
<p>It’s very reasonable to drop the lowest grade or allow for make-ups. Being more transparent doesn’t preclude these types of adjustments - it just has to be a fair process.</p>
<p>Isn’t the grade supposed to reflect the student’s mastery of the material?</p>
<p>I allow limitless rewrites of essays that completely replace grades. And some students still end up with B’s, mostly because of missed classes or homework assignments. It’s the equivalent of the high school student who aces all the tests but never does homework. </p>
<p>Some might argue that the homework isn’t necessary in that case, but as a teacher I know that those other “less important” grades often reflect something as important as mastery–whether a student is helpful in peer revising for example or takes the time to attend to and learn a new writing technique in an in-class exercise. Tests and papers are important but they don’t assess everything there is to be learned.</p>
<p>So in my class, grades reflect mastery of material and good work habits, and transparency along with a liberal revision policy works (if some A writers end up with B’s, they generally admit that they shouldn’t have blown off so many of the smaller assignments). The downside is that I’ve had to quantify everything to do that–students might have a great discussion, but if they don’t write good notes, they might not get full credit. This works well, I think, for students like mine who need to learn good work habits as much as they need to learn the material. At my son’s school, however, I think it would be too limiting–prep school students should be past that stage and ready for the more intangible kinds of evaluation that they will face in college and career. They shouldn’t need immediate, constant feedback on every little thing they do, which is what on-line, “transparent” grading is all about. </p>
<p>So has anyone had a child (rather than a friend’s child) with actual experience of getting a worse grade than he or she expected based on the fudge factor? And if so, if pressed, would that student perhaps admit that he or she did not participate as fully in the life of the class as expected?</p>
<p>I do not want instant parental access to grades. Attending a boarding school is supposed to teach a student how to monitor his own learning. The students need to learn to recognize the signs of trouble on their own, without parental guidance. </p>
<p>If a child is happy and involved at school, she’ll be balancing many different commitments. It doesn’t help for me to nag her from afar about her grades. The workload is demanding, and there’s no free time. </p>
<p>I also agree with classicalmama, that grading for mastery wouldn’t be appropriate. In my opinion, it’s more important for parents to monitor their children’s overall enthusiasm. The grade is not as important as the child’s willingness to commit to the boarding community and their willingness to learn how to be a better student. I’d worry much less about a happy kid with Cs, whose teachers and advisors remark on his good work ethic and his improvement over the year, than a kid with As who’s miserable, hates and mistrusts his teachers, and who hasn’t made any friends or joined any clubs by the end of the year.</p>
<p>DS was surprised at his end of term grade (A-) in a class when all his test scores were solid A’s. He was told that it was because of a lack of enough participation. Although the discussion that ensued between he and teacher regarding how to initiate sharing one’s thoughts was good, it should have come mid-term and not at the end as a big surprise.</p>
<p>When son asked other kids about their experience, they shared they got surprised also by same teacher. Even though they had participated a lot, some were told “it wasn’t the right kind of participation.” There does seem to be a great deal of subjectivity; not sure to this degree found in public school, but it’s possible.</p>
<p>There is also a declamation contest each year, and criteria used to choose those who go on to next rounds is somewhat of a mystery.</p>
<p>Agree totally with this comment. I think “class participation” is often a fudge factor used to make sure certain students get higher grades. Also, the school seems to have a quota for A/A- and these seem to go to some of the favorites.</p>
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<p>And why would a kid getting all As hate and mistrust his teachers? Kids getting “Cs” are generally going to be more unhappy as their future plans will be limited by where they can get into college. A sub 3.0 GPA means going to a very low-tier or state school. Was that why we invested $200,000 in a high school education?</p>
<p>No surprises our end with grades. Disagree on your fudge assessment of class participation and need of quotas. Kids go in smart and go out smart. All the kids that I have met over the years, including 6th, 7th and 8th grade boarders, enjoy their school and more importantly highly appreciate and value the opportunity to attend. The vast majority of students that attend these schools have positive attitudes. There is a video on the last page of the St. Paul’s thread that does say a lot, in a most humorous way, in helping those incoming freshmen.</p>
<p>No surprises or lack of clarity at SPS regarding grading from our family’s experience. I don’t have the constant feedback of the online grading system that our public school had but I don’t think it is necessary either. My kids advocate for themselves and interact with their teachers. It’s not a role I need or want to fill. In addition to formal mid-term and end of term feedback, the students seem to get constant updates from teachers on where they stand. If there is any confusion on the part of the student, all they need to do is ask. Grades might not always be what I want but they’ve always been a fair reflection of what my children have earned. Like ops, I’ve seen no sign of quotas per grade but it’s also important to note that there is very little grade inflation. Getting top grades is reserved for the strongest students. This can be an adjustment for some after coming from schools where a 1/3 of the class can get As in some schools. As far as class participation, it is very important in BS with small classes. IMHO, this is what I am paying the big bucks for - small classes and active, engaged participation. The other thing I appreciate at SPS is that the students seem to get a very quick turn around from teachers on assessments, papers, assignments. At our public school, some teachers were horrible with returning items, often having moved on to new testing before return old tests and quizzes.</p>
<p>How do you know that? Schools often have a profile of grade distribution. Some schools have really brutal grade distributions. One may guess at the grade point average of the students who make honors. Other than that, I’m not sure how a parent would know if a teacher is grading unfairly. (One’s own child may not be an unbiased source.)</p>
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<p>If he thinks the teacher plays favorites, and games the system to “make sure certain students get higher grades,” I’d say he mistrusts his teachers.</p>
<p>Again, some schools have very tough grading. I don’t know which school your children attend, but it is possible for a student who’s not receiving As to be happy.</p>
<p>First hand experience. A grade was lowered from an A- to B+ based on “classroom participation.” The low classroom participation grade was not revealed until AFTER grades were issued and at that point it was too late to address. Up until that point, when asked, teacher’s reponse was “classroom participation” is “fine.” The difference between a 3.3 and a 3.7 is hugh when applying to colleges as most on CC will know.</p>
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<p>I sat in the class and observed one student dominating the discussion. That’s how I know.</p>
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<p>To each their own, but I personally don’t like the taste of kool-aid.</p>
Like ops, I’ve seen no sign of quotas per grade but it’s also important to note that there is very little grade inflation. Getting top grades is reserved for the strongest students. This can be an adjustment for some after coming from schools where a 1/3 of the class can get As in some schools. As far as class participation, it is very important in BS with small classes. IMHO, this is what I am paying the big bucks for - small classes and active, engaged participation. The other thing I appreciate at SPS is that the students seem to get a very quick turn around from teachers on assessments, papers, assignments. At our public school, some teachers were horrible with returning items, often having moved on to new testing before return old tests and quizzes.</p>