Marian first semester freshman can join Greek houses at many schools. in addition, in some Greek groups (maybe many) the pledging period is no longer a semester, it is typically 8 weeks or so.
It’s not “just silly” Pizzagirl. You have no idea as to the time commitment a serious music major must make these days. For an instrumentalist, ensemble commitment alone takes up most evenings. Your dismissiveness of the relative experience of other folks on this board is what’s silly.
It’s a ‘bigger’ school, about 9000 I think, but the houses are right there, front and center. There are tons of other activities for students not interested in Greek life and my daughter has many friends who aren’t Greek, including her boyfriend, but the Greeks just seem to participate in a lot of the general activities too.
At my own school, the Greek houses were not on campus but in the surrounding neighborhoods. It was about 10% participation, again plenty of things to do if not Greek, but again it seemed like you saw Greek letters on most school events - homecoming floats, student council elections, sponsoring events and contests.
Our family experience is really betwixt and between. 
I went to a women’s college w/o sororities. H went to several schools, ultimately Michigan State, where he rushed a frat, received a bid, but withdrew during pledge term when it got too weird for him. (And yeah, it was really, really weird! We’re talking masturbatory techniques and straps!)
S was adamantly anti-frat, to the extent that he refused to consider applying to Cornell because when we were driving around the campus he saw some frat houses. Ironically, he ended up going to Dartmouth, which is known for its frat scene, largely because of the movie Animal House.
The thing about D is that its frat scene is very unlike most other schools. Definitely completely unlike the SEC thing discussed in the U AL thread. Frat parties at D are almost always open to everyone, male or female. Most of the houses are very much integrated: I think S’s house was about 50% Asian or Black. (Yes, there are houses that are preppier/WASPier than others, but S wouldn’t have joined them.) Fraternity costs are supported by FA. Kids pledge there who would never consider doing so at the vast majority of other schools, S among them.
Part of this is because of the dislocation caused by the D-Plan and the previous housing scheme, which engendered a certain rootlessness. The school is in the process of creating a residential house system, which may change this dynamic.
S was an intellectual, introverted kid, who gained much in terms of personal growth from D and being part of a frat. He took leadership roles, such as rush and social chair, that he never would have without that organization. At the same time, he thinks that D would be better off dismantling the fraternity system, because he thinks it encourages people to narrow their social experience and outlook.
So it’s a mixed bag from our perspective.
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"It’s not “just silly” Pizzagirl. You have no idea as to the time commitment a serious music major must make these days. For an instrumentalist, ensemble commitment alone takes up most evenings. "
The university I went to has one of the top schools of music in the nation. They were certainly “serious music majors.” It also has one of the top theater departments in the nation, yet we had many theater majors in Greek life - including many famous actors / actresses whose names you would all know. So no, I don’t think I’m off base.
And the time requirements are going to differ by campus. Our only requirements were once a week chapter meetings and then rush week.
You and me both. I may not live through this.
We don’t have a specific school picked out yet, he’s still in the deciding where to apply stage, and we realized that this is an issue that we know absolutely nothing about, so I decided to inquire.
He is a serious musician, his ensembles and lessons currently take up a lot of his time. He intends to play in at least two ensembles in college. He also may or may not participate in a sport. that is currently up in the air.
He also wants to double major (but I’m not on board with that), and did I mention that he has abysmal time management skills?
Sometimes fraternity is a blamket term to cover the social organizations joined via rush (extended series of semi-exclusive parties to allow the fraternity to choose those worthy of membership) as well as professional or interest based organizations joined via certain qualifications – Phi Beta Kappa, Phi Mu Sinfonian, Kappa Phi, etc…
My niece and nephew both went to small LACs and both joined the Greek system. She, becasue she’s emotionally fragile and wanted that built in support system and structure. He, because he likes parties and the sense of BMOC. They both had very positive, but very different experiences. She made a bunch of friends she probably would have made anyway. He got his irresponsible, lazy, partying self sat down by his fraternity brothers, who challenged him to be a better man, get his act together, and grow up.
Neither of my sons, at Large University , were interested in Greek life, which they saw as exclusive, antiquated, racist, mysogynist, and entirely too full of itself. And perpetually drunk. And expensive (dues! pins! rent! forms! trips! dues!) They made plenty social and professional attachments without Greek Life, and nobody cared or noticed that they weren’t Greek.
I was briefly Greek, at a small LAC. Courted as a prize “independant”, I rolled my eyes through silly rituals and pledges of undying friendship; I was genuinely flattered. Censured for not performing various “required” tasks as a pledge class of 1. Activated in the most ridiculous pseudo relgious rite (robes! candles! fealty primary, before my God or my family!) .
And I turned in my $435 pin during my first rush as an insider a few months later, after listening to a room full of sisters discuss who was worthy of a bid – “she’s fat” “her boyfriend’s a dork” and yes, said of an accomplished, prominent musician “she’s a n****** , we can’t have her here”. quit that week, none of those women, save one, ever spoke to me again.
Greek life is very different on every campus, so go with an open mind but a grain of salt or two.
“she’s fat” “her boyfriend’s a dork” and yes, said of an accomplished, prominent musician “she’s a n****** , we can’t have her here”. "
See? That’s disgusting. And we NEVER said things like that when evaluating new members. Ever, ever, ever. It’s so different by school. It’s like asking “what’s it like attending college?” when that covers a range from community college to Party-On State U to MIT.
@zoosermom-I am having a hard time getting started with this answer because I haven’t yet gotten past the fact that the PBK might even be thinking about college yet!
One of my 3 sons went to a university with fraternities. He had no interest whatsoever in joining one and then…they came after him. He joined and had a great 4 years in the fraternity, living in the fraternity house which was physically on the campus for his junior & senior years. His fraternity permitted absolutely NO hazing of any kind and they stuck to it. They ran weeklong fundraisers for charitable causes and raised large sums of money. His fraternity consistently had the highest GPA on campus of any of the fraternal organizations. I know that there were a number of frats on his campus which fit into the more stereotypical “frat boy” nonsense of excessive drinking, partying and general debauchery. This is sort of hard for me to comprehend because this university is a highly ranked one and super-competitive to be admitted to.
Something else to think about are the dues, not cheap by any means. Even though my DS’s university had maybe 1/3 of the guys participating in fraternity life, I would venture to say that a disproportionate number of on-campus parties occurred at the fraternities. I think that the PBK will really need to do his homework before he thinks about joining a fraternity.
When I was in college in the NE, a brother from LSU was working in the area and decided to drop by our fraternity house for a visit. While we were talking, a black man came in the front door, walked past us down the hallway and went up the stairs. The LSU brother’s eyes got big as he watched what was happening.
He turned to me and said, “You got a n****** in the house?” To him, this was a foreign concept. Except for kitchen help, who came in the back door and never the front, everyone who even visited was rich and white.
We had a good discussion about the differences of our chapters. Ours was melting pot, everything from our token Connecticut blue-blood to our four AA brothers, three Caribbean, one Egyptian, about 1/3 Jewish. His was typical mid-80s SEC, white and wealthy - if you wore the same suit twice in a week you automatically were disqualified.
Did you tell him “we don’t use the n word here, sorry you guys are backwards but we have a little bit more sophistication and class”?
I was in a sorority as was one of my daughters. 25% of a student body is Greek? That is a high percentage. You have to eliminate all graduate students, foreign students (most don’t go through recruitment) and then there is a large portion of the student body that is greek. Some of my best friends were my sorority sisters. My daughter who joined has good friends today…in addition she has a job that she would only get through her university and sorority. The daughter who didn’t join had a very important class (evening)) that would only be offered that semester. She missed first round. She is in a very competitive industry, And her degree and that class put her in the industry where she is thriving.
I think that sororities are a good thing…networking, friends, friends oh and a safe place to live. Please note: there are Asian, Christian and Black sororities and fraternities. also included in the 25% figure.
Wow, what an awful group of people. Did you ever wonder why they sought you out?? This did not happen in my house 30 years ago, and discussion about any negative traits at all during recruitment was prohibited by both of my Ds’ sororities. I’m wondering what small LAC you went to. Perhaps that behavior is more reflective of the student body as a whole; perhaps the LAC was not selective in terms of personal characteristics via recommendations/interviews, nor included or was good at instilling civic responsibility or mutual respect as part of their mission.
I attended the University of Michigan and was a member of a fraternity. Interestingly, we never called it a “frat.”
This fall is the 40th reunion of our fraternity graduating class. We get together, with spouses, every 10 years. Three doctors, one architect, one landscape architect, four lawyers, one engineer and one oil and gas investor. We have all attended and/or stood up in each other’s weddings. Only one divorce. In other words, a great group of solid guys that have stuck together as friends. When you travel and visit a city where another member lives, you better call to check in. And you can always get an extensive email chain going about anything, particularly Michigan football.
It was a wonderful part of the undergraduate experience. It can be great. It can also be awful. But check it out and decide for yourself.
^ Three of the four men standing up at my wedding this summer were (are) fraternity brothers. The fourth was my brother-in-law.
In my case, my two best friends and I rushed the same fraternity. We enjoyed the expanded social options, the feeling of belonging/brotherhood, and the emphasis on personal and academic growth and responsibility.
I cannot speak of the specifics of our rituals, but there was never any pain, fear, or embarrassment. When I hear of hazing issues or ritual accidents, it pisses me off, because they are making the rest of the Greek orgs look bad.
Clearly they are not all like that, and I would venture to say that most are not. Like anything else, choose a group of people whom you enjoy being around, whom you trust, who will let you get your studying done without too many time hassles, etc.
@UMDAD - would love if my DS found that . . . it is a blessing when it works out that way.
Unfortunately, for some, it’s a bit more superficial.
Really I think it comes back to KNOWING yourself FIRST, then finding your tribe. Your tribe could very well be the greek crowd. Or it might not be. Or maybe it’s a mix!
Both husband and I participated in Greek life. He dropped out after two years disgusted by what he saw happening in his house. Hazing, misogynistic behavior, date rape, abundant alcohol consumption were rampant. I would say that at least 2/3’s of the frats (and yes we did call them frats at our school) were exactly the same. As a sorority member, I did have first hand knowledge. None of my three kids had any interest in joining fraternities at their large state U’s. A decision I was very happy about. Two of the three schools seemed to mostly have ones that were just like what H and I were exposed to in our undergraduate years. The third kid relayed that his school’s fraternity culture wasn’t as strong of a presence on his campus and there seemed to be less issues. Very dependent on the school.
I am not necessarily the biggest fan of greek life, the school I went to didn’t particularly have a big Greek life, but there were some of the negative things, the elitism/mono cultural aspects to some of the frats, and that culture still exists, the frats full of the scions of the well off and so forth. However, it also would be throwing the baby out with the bathwater to exclude schools because they may have some frats like Delta house or the snot house in “Animal House”, other frats and sororities are likely as different. It depends on the school as well and how it balances out in the wide spread of student life, if you are at a school where all there is are parties and such among the Greek world, it will be very different than a school with a lot more to offer in terms of student life.
There are fraternities where the environment buoys up students to do better, there are fraternities that quite honestly seem to predicate their existence on no matter what you do at college, being in that frat will get you places in the world, so they party hardy and so forth, and it call comes down to, if you want to partake of it, finding a place you fit. And if you don’t, as long as the school has some balance to it, then you can do fine, too. I think those who say you need to be part of Greek life to succeed are thinking of a different era when college was full of the old boy WASP networks and such, I think being part of a Greek organization can help making friends and also having a network after college, but the old days of getting hired simply because you were a member of some Greek is long gone, it can help in finding a place to apply and might weigh in your favor, but in tech for example it likely may not help you all that much.
My opinion? I think the whole label of Greek Life is so dependent on the school, the frat/sorority, the chapter, even the kid. Can be great, can be not- so-great. Both our kids surprised us by going greek and they both had good experiences.
H and I went to our state flagship, in the 80’s and Greek Life there was pretty much non-existent (to us, anyway). So we had absolutely no idea what it “meant” to be Greek. Enter D, who shocked us all by pledging at her heavily greek college. I didn’t “get it” - the whole bid process seemed silly to me. But she went through with it, ended up in a sorority which turned out to be absolutely perfect for her. It was (and still is, even after graduation) a great experience for her.
S is another who I never expected to go greek. He just graduated from an Acoustical Engineering / Music program at his school. So - very busy with engineering coursework PLUS conservatory music classes, performing groups, acapella groups, etc. You mentioned a “Music Fraternity” above, I can vouch that YES, such a thing exists, it is a national organization and S was a member for all of his 4 years and president of his chapter during his senior year. It was made up of fellow musicians, some in the engineering program that S was in, some in straight music or MT majors. It was a little less of a stereotypical frat, but still heavy on traditions, service projects, and brotherhood.
PM me if you want any more info on S’s frat.
Bay, it’s really difficult not to take your comment personally! But the point of my post was to illustrate the vast array of Greek experiences possible – from the very positive to the reprehensible. I do think that sort of personal evaluation of candidates is a lot more common than people are comfortable admitting, whether it is technically permitted, or not.
My alma mater was, and is, a fine place in the OAC that is graduating civic leaders, scientists, teachers, leaders, — pretty much like every LAC. I was sought after as a highly placed , visible independant; I’m hoping you are not implying I’m somehow an awful person that other awful people want to have join