Love this forum - learn something everyday! Thanks, pizzagirl. NU’s house was opened 1988 according to website - post me! I got curious and thought maybe all my knowledge of music frats and sororities was out of date. Wiki (which is of course definitive!) says that “Unlike most collegiate fraternities, the vast majority of chapters of Phi Mu Alpha do not provide communal housing for their members”.
So, amend my previous post #46 regarding music fraternities - from “No houses” to"some with houses"! Good to know, perhaps, when researching a list of schools that will be applied to.
Some schools do not have residential houses for Greeks, either the social type houses or the special interest houses. Some like that and the ability to live wherever they want on campus or off, and others really want the residential experience. My niece went to the former and while she was in a sorority, she lived with a friend (from high school) the entire time she was there, first in a dorm, then in a University apartment, then in a private apartment. The roommate was in a different sorority, so they would not have lived together if the school had a Sorority Row or floor of a dorm or other arrangement.
At Harvard, of course, there are no Greek physical houses.
At my house, several of our members continued to live at home and came to the house for meetings and dinners. Others who lived in town chose to live in the house.
Sez who…you? I was 17 when I signed up for rush and I did it to meet lots of new people I would never have met through the dorm and classes. I expected to be working hard academically (18 credit hours 1st semester freshman year) and I wanted to have some fun and new friends as well. The professional benefits and future networking benefits were far in the future and not under consideration at all and I suspect that’s true for most freshmen who join GLOs. I was willing to work on philanthropic projects several times per year as well as on homecoming floats with whichever fraternity we joined up with any given year. It’s stupid to criticize Greeks for not focusing fully on philanthropic efforts, when they primarily exist for social purposes and yes, a certain amount of frivolity (although never during midterms or finals).
There were no deaths or other major incidents associated with my chapter or any of the others during my time at a very large, work hard, play hard SEC university.
Most college freshmen or sometimes even high school seniors aspiring to pledge that I’ve met cite the professional benefits and future networking opportunities as one of their main reasons for joining. It was also the reason my older cousin and his siblings used as a graduating HS seniors to get their parents to agree to pay the fraternity/sorority dues along with the full-pay college tuition back in the '80s.
Harvard has five fraternities in addition to the final clubs. (Secret societies are at Yale, eating clubs at Princeton, both of which also have fraternities and sororities). I think at least one Harvard fraternity has a physical house.
I went to UW-Madison and though the Greek presence is smallish (and it’s a big school), if you live on Greek Row it certainly feels like a significant community. I think it’s probably like that in many schools. If it matters to a student, they should choose where they live and hang out.
We’re another example of non-Greek parents who scorned Greek life who had a D who loves her sorority. I disagree with those who minimize the significance of philanthropy; at her school it’s taken seriously, most kids are very proud of their efforts and though non-Greeks CAN do philanthropic activities, who really does? I sure didn’t until later in my life. My daughter is clear-eyed about the downsides to Greek life, but loves the friends she’s made. That said, my college friends are also my strongest bonds and I met them all (women and men) my first week of college on my dorm floor. We’re just as tight thirty years later as many who keep in touch with their Greek friends.
I’m also absolutely sure I’d feel differently about Greek life if we lived in parts of the country where they have more social… heft. We’re in the Pacific Northwest, and there is lots of diversity, including my D’s best friend who is very exuberantly gay and being groomed to lead his (pretty stereotypically frat-ty) fraternity in the near future. I love that. I doubt my daughter and her friends would have the same experience in, say, Alabama.
Both my kids went Greek at schools in the South, yet have had entirely different experiences. At the State U my S attended, the percentage of Greeks is smaller than at D’s LAC. The State U system is more intense and exclusive. At D’s school, recruitment is completely laid back and Greek events are open to everyone. They don’t wear their letters around campus and there’s a lot of interaction among different houses and non-Greeks.
Even in the State school system, the personalities and reputations of the houses vary widely. One house may be very diverse, another mainly jocks, another known for its high GPA. I’d suggest that your S go through recruitment and see if any houses appeal to him. If nothing else, he’ll meet some new people.
I dated an alum of this group a few years ago. He was in the marching band at an SEC school (huge time commitment) as well as the fraternity and completed a music major. I doubt that this group is raising hell on many campuses. They are a lot more unified than other social fraternities that are totally different from campus to campus, and that is just not their style. Even at an SEC school known for wild fraternity antics, this group was a bunch of future music teachers and band directors.
All 3 of my kids attended schools with a large Greek presence. Both D’s did not pledge and both had many friends and a life outside of Greek. But D2 attended a smaller school, so her choices were fewer. I think it was harder for her. But she made it clear, she had no desire to join a sorority.
S did join a fraternity. He loved it. Still does. His frat was very open to different types including non-drinking, gay and all ethnic groups as members. So yes, their formals had members drinking or not ( and never forced to), men with men and brothers with ladies. I was very surprised, and pleased, when he told me about this. His frat was obviously inclusive.
"Most college freshmen or sometimes even high school seniors aspiring to pledge that I’ve met cite the professional benefits and future networking opportunities as one of their main reasons for joining. "
“Cited”? Do you do surveys with Greeks you meet as to why they e joined? How the heck would you know why other people join? As usual, we are supposed to believe you magically know the inner workings of acquaintances.
I’m with joblue. I joined for social reasons - to make friends on a college campus. Anyway,I don’t see one iota of difference between networking at a Greek level or networking at a college level or networking at any other darn level one can. Smart people network. It’s not a condemnation of someone that they take advantage of networking.
It seems you’re imagining a tone of condemnation in an aspect that was actually a positive as professional networking is one justification which does tend to elicit positive responses from parents or others who don’t know or are somewhat skeptical of a HS senior/college frosh thinking of joining a Greek organization. Not saying the social aspect wasn’t an important factor. However, the professional networking and post-college benefits of fraternity/sorority membership was clearly on the minds and frequently mentioned among those I knew who were aspiring to join such organizations.
If you do want some condemnation on this aspect…sometimes that professional networking aspect did take on a bit of a nepotistic edge…especially back in the '80s and before.
The party/beer major older cousin was one good example considering he was hired at a well-known infamous ibank* on the basis of his fraternity affiliation despite the fact his undergrad academic performance and disciplinary record were to put it extremely mildly…abysmal. He didn’t last before his probationary period ended despite the best efforts of fellow frat brothers of his…including the hiring manager who initially hired him.
It made the headlines as one ibank which ushered in the 2008 recession.
That’s right. And fully believable. In the cutthroat world of I banking, someone is going to stake his or her reputation on bringing in a drunk, stupid friend, riiiiiight.
From what I’ve gathered from friends and HS classmates who work in peer ibanks, it was less competitive and there was more of an “old boys network” factor in play back in the '80s and before than it was when they entered/did hiring in the '90s and later.
If he had graduated college just a decade later, they all said the most he’s get from his fraternity affiliation is an extra glance of his resume/application before it’s tossed in the circular file.
I think that it is easier to eliminate the power of networking within a fraternity or sorority rather than say the obvious: most if not all of us fear rejection for us and especially for our kids. Kids come to colleges as “winners”…they all were admitted. But there you are: with 50 other presidents of the student body. And guess what? There is only one of them who will be president of this student body.
Recruitment is all about finding your niche (in or out of Greek life), meeting new classmates, and maybe pledging. And here is the rub: most kids will be rejected from one house or another. Too bad. The kids (all of them)will face rejection at one time of other. Tough cookies. One of daughter chose to go to a special class instead of recruitment. For her: perfect. My other daughter got the dream internship through a sister…and has a dream job. Yes, really. Her sorority.
Other daughter…best friend gave her a fantastic rec for a production house. Got the job…THE job. Her contact: the boy she met on her first day of college. My son (who dropped out early) got his dream job at 19. He is a partner.
And I say this as a grown and old woman: when I cancer my friends (some of them sorority sisters) brought food, sat with me in the chemo room, and went to a few events for me that I couldn’t got to and filmed everything from the event.
All of us are rejected at different times of our lives. Get over it.
LOTS of my non-Greek students! In fact, most of my non-Greek students are much more devoted to their service projects than my Greek students who tend to dabble and do the minimum they are required to do.
I have worked at universities with large Greek populations for more than 20 years and, generally speaking, I’m not a fan. From where I sit (in an Honors College) I see little upside to our students being in sororities and, especially, fraternities (there IS a difference in cultures). When students are pledging, their grades go down. We have had to remove more students from Honors because of grades/conflicts with Greek obligations, than for any other reason. There is tremendous peer pressure to party/drink heavily. I’m sure being involved in Greek life can be beneficial for some students, but I think any benefits can be found other places at universities.
As for the OP, if your son is going to be involved with music, that’s a community in and of itself. My current university has a Greek population of 25%. They are a presence on campus, but students can have a very fun and fulfilling social life without ever venturing near the Greek Quad. As others have said, every school is different. Something to question staff AND students about on your campus visits.