Not just Oklahoma, but Texas, too. H was at a meeting a few months ago out by the DFW airport, when they felt an earthquake. The other people in the meeting, who were from the area, said they feel them all the time now… due to fracking. Makes me wonder if, when they built DFW airport, they built things to be earthquake proof. Of course they weren’t fracking then, so I doubt they took that into consideration.
On the news, Huntington Beach has revoked ban on plastic bags. It turns out it’s more expensive environmentally to have paper bag made and delivered. Talking about flip flopping, these environmental conscious councilmen. Embarrassing.
Ever been to coal and oil country? Nothing like open mines, oil wells, refineries, clouds of smoke, and chemical pools to really brighten up some nature!
That has been public knowledge for years. If Huntington Beach just found this out then they should consult actual experts next time they go to make a law, instead of just basing them off of ten-year-old chain emails sent by my great aunt Suzy!
Post #103, it’s popular to be green but they don’t even do the basic research before the councilmen pass any law.
If subject XYZ is popular, then there will be tons of adherents who praise its virtues despite complete ignorance of even the basic details. That said idiots might be in local government is so predictable it isn’t even a good joke.
As this is a college website, note how AZ State University has an impressive solar installation. https://www.asu.edu/tour/sustainability/solar.html Even better, solar panels shield parking in many places, a great gift in the Arizona sun. They also have a school of sustainability: https://schoolofsustainability.asu.edu/degrees/undergraduate/
musicprnt, great post per your usual. Incredible regarding the nuclear construction details, or lack of attention to.
My ex worked in sustainable power. Despite all the attention given to solar, wind, and the feel good aspects, he felt the greatest gains came from conservation, the lightbulbs, greater R value in walls and roofs, weather stripping, and increased appliance efficiency. But it is a multi pronged approach.
However, in keeping with the cynicism above, I do get a certain perverse pleasure in the holier than thou adherents of recycling or composting or anti plastic bag or whatever. Not that I don’t do all these things, and support them, but we’re all more the problem than the solution, no matter how religiously we recycle or whatever, so tire of the attitude. The processes are evolving with time, and those gung ho legislators are only as good as the research they are given.
On plastic bags - a lot of the “green” concern as far as I am aware is not about carbon footprint but about the greater tendency to end up as litter on the road side, beaches and waterways. It is similar to the issues of plastic 6-pack can holders and risks to wildlife. Animals become entangled in the handles and openings along with the accumulation just being gross. Whatever else the issues are RE open lands and carbon, paper bags and reusable bags made from recycles petroleum based product don’t have that same post consumer environmental impact.
Our municipality has not banned them but most of my local stores have just flipped the paradigm. Instead of automatically giving you a bag or even asking if you want one they ask if you NEED one. This is not a holier than thou thing or done with any kind of attitude or personal agenda in the moment. It’s more of a corporate shift in training. Remember how the counter people at The Gap used to always ask if you needed socks? Now the official training is to ask if you need a bag. Now and then I do feel that I need one depending on how many items I have, what they are and where I’m going next. About 75% of the time I don’t. There is no weird tone or implied guilt trip with this ask - it’s the local drug store chain, the hardware store etc. However, even if you take a bag most times the asking just shifts the mindset just a bit and produces incremental change over time.
I found this topic at just the right time. Recently (probably since we are being bombarded with “conserve water” messaging in So Cal) I was really noticing just how many HUGE vehicles are on the road (by comparison, I drive a little 4-door Toyota Yaris) and started really looking at the drivers. Many young men and women. I started thinking things to myself like “do you REALLY need so much car?” “was that HUGE SUV the ONLY vehicle you could find to schlep your 3 year old around in?” and so on. Then my mind wandered further and I found myself wondering how many of these drivers recycle, eat “organic” etc. and I found myself actually getting perturbed - the final question I started asking myself was “who are these hypocrites?” No answers, just questions. Thanks for letting me say this stuff out loud! Now to go read the thread.
I know a few people who think they are green by buying a Prius, a Volt or a Tesla. But that’s not their only car. A two driver family will own three or more cars, as if that’s green. Or economically doable for most people.
saintfan, people in stores asking about bags are just fine, and a good reminder. What irks me more are people I know personally, who, for instance, gasp at the sight of a performer on stage using a disposable water bottle. Or scold every visitor to their home for not recycling perfectly. It has taken me a while to learn to always bring my grocery shopping bags into the store.
", that is just the hypocrisy that drives me a little bonkers, big vehicle use while being very picky about things like recycling. I had a van back in the day, and have a Honda Fit now. However blow my carbon footprint by flying. We’re all mostly hypocrites in some way or other, so find a little forgiveness and help each other out.
In my county, they introduced a mandatory 5 cent charge for bags, whether paper or plastic. Despite a lot of groaning about it, my perception is that most people have adapted and are using reusable bags. I thought it was pretty good way to incentivize conservation.
Money is a great motivator of habit changing. 
I know many families with, say, a Volt and an Outback. One car is the commuter and about town car and one is the car for heading to the mountains to hike or ski or whatever. That is more “green” than driving two giant cars around all the time. There are a fair amount of Smart cars around as well.
Is it? Factoring in the energy to manufacture, transport and eventually dispose of an additional car?
I always love seeing the old, libertarian, “get off my lawn” guys in the neighborhood wheeling out their giant recycling and yard waste totes and a tiny little garbage can. If they are motivated by sticking it to the man and not paying more I’m all for it.
Since the average transaction price for new cars is over $31,000, and that is the neighborhood of the pricing for the “green” vehicles you mentioned, I think we have to conclude that it is “economically doable” for most people. Moreover, the operation costs for the green and electric vehicles are substantially lower than the “average car”. It’s all about choices.
it’s not economically doable if you need a Van or larger vehicle sometimes. To own two cars where one would do is not green or economical. And Teslas are more like $50,000 and have a very limited range.
Some keep their vehicles forever, which is pretty green.
We have three, a 1966 pickup, a 1992 coupe & 2002 small SUV. All were secondhand. We also walk/ carpool/ bike/bus, and consolidate trips.
Teslas hava a range of 300 miles. Charging stations are all over. Three hundred miles get me most places I want to go. If I wanted to go farther, I probably would take a train.