Group think? Are we offering solid advice? Are we being influenced too much by rankings?
Returning to this set of questions, I already indicated upthread where I think there is group think (i.e. needing an affordable safety one likes, avoiding significant loans beyond federal maximums).
There is another area that I’m not sure is necessarily group think, but there are a number of posters with preconceived assumptions that any student who posts here is looking for a Top X school and that finances are not a major consideration for the family. I’d say it’s not necessarily the most frequent posters, but often enough there will be a student who comes on looking for a school in a city and they’re being offered Macalester, Columbia, USC, Georgetown, etc. And this is before we know the kid’s GPA, test scores, interests, budget, etc.
It’s as though I said, I’m looking for a new car and people are suggesting Jaguar, Maserati, Lamborghini, and Rolls-Royce ones, when the vast majority of people are probably going to be looking for a Honda, Toyota, Hyundai, or Kia (the latter set being not just more financially likely, but also much more accessible in terms of being able to find a dealership and test drive it…which in this loose metaphor, would be having a reasonable shot of acceptance for a larger number of folk).
So in this way, the rankings influence is evident in terms of some people’s automatic go-to schools to recommend which is a bit of group think (though, to be clear, not the entire group).
100%. I remember asking for recommendations for my 3.7GPA, test optional kid and getting suggestions like Davidson and Bowdoin.
I think the CC tends to attract parents with $ and high stats kids, so it’s their go to, but I do love when someone (like you!) brings up a list of more realistic schools.
It’s understandable, but I’d love it if the norm became that if a student came on here asking for schools and we don’t know anything more specific about the kid, that we only offered schools with at least a 50% admit rate (and preferably higher, which are the majority of schools in the U.S.). It can definitely be a blow when people are suggesting tough gets and you have to raise your hand and say, “I’ve only got X,” (whether X is $, or grades, or whatever). And this applies to everything from colleges to restaurant suggestions to the car analogy above.
Back in the Stone Age…I asked for CA college suggestions for my daughter. The schools suggested were all excellent options, and for her stats and college application stuff…they were very likely for admission.
Did your original request share any info about your D (her academic background, your budget, etc)? Or did you just ask for California schools?
I think once we know more about a poster that it’s totally appropriate to provide more tailored suggestions that suit them financially and academically, and that can lead toward more expensive schools with lower admit rates. It’s when we know nothing about a poster where I think there could be some changes in our modus operandi.
It may be worth visiting threads in the Parents Forum and Class of xxxx subforums. Here are some examples that may enlighten due to your limited exposure to the complete CC community.
I gave it a try for D23 and felt the resulting categorizations could use some work. She had testing which she submitted everywhere and had class rank so I included those within the profile and worded the prompt based on @tamagotchi 's example…among other things, Gemini reported back that schools like Vassar, Wellesley, and Grinnell were Likely, that Bowdoin was a Match, and that Bryn Mawr is apparently an Ivy League (and thus a Reach). Errrrr…
Can I be one of those who says…I see how you’re both right?
My sense (and no, I don’t plan on counting) is that at least 90% of the students who post chance me threads are the CC-typical excellent students with very high GPAs and standardized test scores.
We do get chance me threads for students who don’t have superlative stats, but more often than not, it’s their parents who are starting the thread, not the students (whereas we get a ton of students with superlative stats posting for themselves).
Additionally, my sense is that the parents of kids in the 3.0-3.8 range don’t post as much in the Class of 20XX threads as the parents who do have kids with the superlative stats.
Above are my perceptions. Below are my hypotheses as to why that is:
CC has developed a reputation as a knowledgeable resource for info on elite school admissions.
It takes a strong sense of self and self-esteem to wade into an unknown area when you seem to stand out from everyone else (and it’s standing out because you don’t “measure up” to everyone else based on some stats, not because you’re head and shoulders above them). That’s a lot to ask of anyone, much less students who are 16-17 years old.
(Case in point: I should probably wander into the fitness for anyone thread…but I haven’t because my sense is that I’m like a baby who is just learning to pull myself up and that most of the people in the thread are probably at least intramural participants or better, even though I could undoubtedly learn a lot from them.)
Parents tend to be willing to do and risk a lot more if it’s for the sake of their kids, so if parents see a good resource available, they’re more likely to take advantage of it, even if they do feel something like an “outsider.” Plus, they’ve also been around longer and have the maturity to realize that most people feel like outsiders and that we’re all pretty similar when it comes down to it.
But then there’s the issue (which I may be wrong about) that the 3.0-3.8 parents aren’t participating as much in the standard Parents of 20xx threads. There are certainly many commonalities where people could commiserate together, regardless of their kid’s GPA (the difficulty of getting kids to finish applications, the uncertainty of waiting for decisions, the exasperation of dealing with FAFSA, looking for prom dresses, dealing with the emotions of your kid getting ready to move away, etc). I don’t have a solid hypothesis for why there’s less interaction there, but I think that it’s true.
There does seem to be a lot of high stat kids on this forum where you start to feel like 3.5 is not enough when in actuality is a good gpa and much more representative of students I’ve come across in my kids schools.
A well deserved reputation I’m sure, but estimating students’ chance of admission to elite schools is arguably the least useful aspect of the support CC provides for these students.
Another factor is that most colleges that 3.0 kids go to really aren’t very selective. There’s not a lot to talk about.
Except money. Seems to me that’s where the real value-added would be. If you have a 3.0-3.5 kid, average SATs, you don’t qualify for Pell… where can you maybe go that you can maybe afford?
That’s the real horror show. Most people aren’t poor enough to qualify for major Pell grants, they can’t stroke anything close to a $20k check, their kid has a 3.1 and a 1050 on the SAT… and she wants to be a nurse or an elementary school teacher.
That’s most people.
And a state school in PA costs $25k total COA. Take off 8k loans and work study, 5k summer wages and you’re still at $12k.
Most people don’t have $1k a month just laying around.
It’s a whole different world.
Super poor kid can make it work. A poor kid with high stats can make it work.
But middle class kids with bad to average stats…. Ouch.
Even if ALL colleges accepted 99% of applicants, there would still be a LOT to talk about.
Just putting together a good college list, and ultimately selecting the right college that will fit the applicant academically, socially, geographically, financially, … that’s a lot to talk about in itself (especially when we are talking about students who aren’t good fits for the famous colleges everyone has heard about in movies, so they may not have heard of the great colleges out there that are good fits for them).
CC also supports students and families in understanding what kind of high school preparation students will need to be successful in college, supports students in putting together an application that will best represent them, and helps with all kinds of special circumstances …
College counseling is so much more than helping students to navigate the selectivity landscape!
