@busyparent I think that last sentence of your post #144 acknowledges that deflecting the focus to what a woman is wearing misses the mark. The women at Fox News dress in a professional manner and yet the harassment was widespread in that organization. Absent photo shoots or character roles, I don’t think Gwyneth Paltrow or many of the women who have spoken out about their personal experiences with HW are known for walking around with “their bosoms hanging out” as you describe earlier. Yet they were on the receiving end of harassment from one of the most powerful men in Hollywood.
I think we are at a tipping point where women have just had enough of it. Any deflection away from the actions of men who do this sort of thing just sounds like minimizing or excusing their behavior. It’s tiresome at this point and as you acknowledge “doesn’t really matter” in the context of addressing this issue.
The deflection is what has to stop. We’ve been excusing men and boys for far too long, and we need to start holding all of them accountable. Dress codes should be based on what is appropriate for the setting, in terms of the ability to complete the work necessary. If you’re in a position dealing with the public, and your attire impacts the way people conduct business, then yes, what you wear should matter. But women should not be held accountable for men’s inability to control their own urges. If we coddle the boys in middle school, by requiring the girls to dress more conservatively, how are they going to learn to behave appropriately once they’re working in the “real world?” If a girl wearing a top with spaghetti straps is a distraction at school, that’s HIS problem, not HERS. Teach him not to look, rather than expect the girl to accommodate his need for less distraction! When they graduate, and he sees her with that same top, she’s still going to be a distraction, unless he learns to ignore her.
What Weinstein did goes well beyond anything that can be explained by what the women were wearing - they could have been in a nun’s habit, and he probably would have considered them an even better conquest. He is fully responsible for his own actions. But there are many others who are complicit, because they fostered the atmosphere in which he acted. There were undoubtedly women who took advantage of what he had to offer, and it does seem hypocritical for some of them to come forward now, but we don’t really know which women were willing participants, and which were truly victims. This does, however, provide some context to the atmosphere in which Bill Cosby and others like him were operating. At least his victims appear to have been willing participants. This is the same context in which DT operated many years ago, and the more vocal his supporters get, the more concerned I get about where we’re headed as a society, and what we’re teaching our children.
I think the men in Hollywood who knew about this are almost as much to blame. Unlike the young women who lacked power, and whose careers were in jeopardy, the men had nothing to lose by standing up to this jerk. And yes, there were plenty of men who knew. There always are.
Obviously many men and women in the top ranks of his company knew. And, they just kept authorizing settlements or looking the other way. There is no way that his company execs did not know about the settlements AND the company lawyers AND any semblance of Human Resources Director in the company.
I’ve run across a few nasty sexual harassment cases in the legal world. I never thought it had to do with how victims dressed. It had to do with power-tripping bullies and the victims who they thought would never complain. They were often right. I heard the stories in my role as a career counselor when victims were seeking a different job. They would tell me the truth about why they were leaving, but they didn’t want to let the firm know about the problem. This despite the fact that the schools I worked at had real power and could probably have gotten results.
If you care enough about making it within the system, you shut up. I suspect that part of the reason I’ve been lucky to avoid sexual harassment is that bullies knew I’d burn the firm down and my own career along with it if anybody tried. Notice that I’m not a lawyer any more. A young person who cares deeply about making partner is much more vulnerable.
He had an entire organization enabling him. Underlings would set up meetings with vulnerable young women where a woman associate was supposed to show up at the meeting to make the young woman comfortable, then leave Weinstein alone with his victim. Press agents would plant unflattering stories about women who accused him. Lawyers would negotiate payoffs. Casting agents would refuse to hire women who rejected him. Restaurant employees would look the other way when he groomed his next victim.
We need to stop saying his victims should speak up, and start saying his enablers should speak up.
Not necessarily. It depends upon whether a written complaint was made to someone other than Weinstein and on who paid the settlements. If he paid personally, and used a personal lawyer, then maybe not…
Rose McGowan, who settled with Weinstein, has called Affleck a liar for saying he knew nothing about Weinstein. She says she complained to Affleck about Weinstein back when the incident happened.
I have no doubt there are plenty of other men in Hollywood who harass and assault women, because there are plenty of other men in every industry who harass and assault women.
@“Cardinal Fang” Of course, you’re right. I think though that some of them are now much more vulnerable than they were before this. And any hypocrites who make statements saying how awful Weinstein’s behavior was when they did the same or similar acts are especially vulnerable.
This is a forum where people can express their thoughts if not in violation of TOS. If you don’t like what others said in this thread, you are free to leave.
Ok. Inappropriate for the situation clothing can lead to lack of respect. Lack of respect is not what causes sexual harassment. I think everyone here agrees with those points. So can we stick a fork in this clothing stuff and move on? Sometimes, I think the clothing myth is thrown in to divert women’s anger and derail the conversation from the real issues and how the harassment can be stopped.
CF - “seemingly willing.” “Seemingly” to the people in power to stop the harasser. The poster was saying that this is what would have happen if the women reported this abuse. It would go kind of like this… “But you were free to leave, darling… why did you stick around? Why didn’t you say a word or called the cops? Sounds like you were a willing participant in this.”