There is a special place in hell for the rich, powerful women who knew and did nothing, or even enabled his assault of the young and vulnerable. Sigh.
But why (unless they brought women to him), are they responsible? Why should they be held in disgust and contempt? What could they have done, killed him?
As Scott Rosenburg said, " And this is as pathetic as it is true: What would you have had us do? Who were we to tell? The authorities? What authorities? The press? Harvey owned the press. The Internet? There was no Internet or reasonable facsimile thereof. Should we have called the police? And said what? Should we have reached out to some fantasy Attorney General Of Movieland? That didn’t exist."
I think there were a lot of women who didn’t want to know.
I don’t personally know Streep or any of the other rich, powerful women. But as the author of the essay (who probably wisely took days to make a statement, taking his time for deeper introspection even while the public was screaming for Hollywood to say something) said, who were they to tell about the boorish behavior they did know about? These women have been raised in the same society as we have, taught that it’s their responsibility to make sure no one has the opportunity to sexually harass or assault them and that if they are harassed or assaulted, they must have done something wrong. They wore the wrong clothes, went to the wrong place, smiled too much, trusted the wrong person.
Additionally, which women in a Hollywood had the same level of power as Weinstein? He was brought down by another powerful, rich, white man because that is the only person who had enough power to do so. That power imbalance is across our society.
No, there is a special place in hell for those who blame women for the actions of men.
@busdriver11 What if those women AND men who were already established had refused to work with HW. What if they didn’t praise him at award shows. I don’t know the answer and hindsight is 20/20. Courtney Love is one who spoke up and she was banned by CAA. I want to hear responses from the agents and “reporters” who distributed negative press about people based on HW’s influence.
I’m not convinced that HW controlled all the media outlets. The women certainly could have gone to a high profile lawyer and had a news conference. A group of them could have gone to any of the plethora of talk shows like Oprah, Ellen, etc. etc. who love a Hollywood sex story. Even now women like Reese Witherspoon and Jennifer Lawrence are coming out about the abuse they endured but are not naming names. What good is coming forward if you don’t name names. Yes, I understand that they are risking a defamation suit, but in Lawrence’s case all the other woman who suffered through the nude line up would be witnesses.
@rom828 my understanding is that it either happens or is tolerated by most of the male dominated industry. It wasn’t just Weinstein. They likely didn’t all know about the very worst, as the writer of the essay said. What they all knew wasn’t likely illegal, and the worst was the stuff women are ashamed of and don’t tend to share beyond a vagueness that isn’t likely actionable.
What good is coming forward if it means being judged, criticicized and blamed?
I don’t know, @romo828, but I’m not blaming women (except people who actually assisted this guy) for his actions. It doesn’t make them especially culpable because they are rich and powerful. And though many people may have been aware he was a lecherous sleaze, it sounds like not many knew he was actually raping women.
Finally people are speaking up now, loud and clear. It would have been better to do earlier, but at least it’s finally happening.
@busdriver11 I agree with you. I’m not one to cast blame either. That article had a really good tone and I hope it resonates with those in HW’s circle and with those who work around others who behave in similar ways.
An opinion piece from the New York Post entitled “Why Hollywood is the perfect hunting ground for pervs”
http://nypost.com/2017/10/17/why-hollywood-is-the-perfect-hunting-ground-for-pervs/
There is plenty of blame to go around isnt there? Harvey, his friends who looked the other way, his associates who covered for him, and yes, the men and women who happily socialized with him and pretended ignorance of his predatory acts. So many helped him accomplish this and chose to remain silent accomplices. Those who had sufficient resources and power not to fear him could have helped others but chose not to, and yes, for that i do condemn them. He was accepted, indeed lionized by his peers who knew better. He could have been ostracized. He could have been shunned in dealmaking. Stars with extraordinary riches could have declined his movie offers; politicians could have declined his contributions. Passively accepting doing business with predators is not acceptable.
I do not think that you are in a position to say exactly who knew exactly what. Unless you are privy to the inner workings of people’s minds.
I think Rosenberg’s characterization of HW as the “Golden Goose” hits the nail on the head. However, I cannot help but notice that his “inner circle” – those who were the recipients of that “volcanic generosity”-- were all men. And let’s face it men have always run that industry. Women speaking out against HW didn’t stand a chance in hell, no matter who they were. Not if they wanted to work again. That’s a pretty powerful silencer.
In addition to women in the industry who encountered him, look at what he has done to his wife. And I cannot even fathom what his 4 daughters are going through right now. Harvey Weinstein saved his wrath for women, those who had little power to fight back.
Women like Paltrow and Jolie are powerful and rich. They had the wherewithall to fight back. But chose not to until Ashley Judd spoke up to the New York Times.
Powerful men will trash their accusers. But when the accusers are well known names they do have the power to fight back.
I disagree.
At the time they were harrassed by Weinstein, they didn’t have power. All he had to do was say they were coasting on their parent’s talent and making up stories to get attention. Angelina Jolie would have been listened to as much as Courtney Love. If Gwyneth Paltrow truly thought she had power when it happened, she would have done more than tell her boyfriend. As it was, some article I read last week mentioned a rumor that went around at the time that she got Shakespeare in Love through the casting couch.
Could they have said something since? Sure. And all he had to do was say if it was really a problem then they would have said something at the time. And that they were just trying to get attention for their fading careers.
I think the behavior publicly displayed by Weinstein was the rule rather than the exception. I think that’s true to some degree in most male dominated areas of society. If women were forced to refuse to work with them rather than accept complicit blame, we wouldn’t have women in Hollywood, politics, military, medicine, the legal system, law enforcement, etc etc.
And this arguement is yet again blaming women for the actions of men.
One of the reasons we believe that HW did the things he is accused of is that MANY women have accused him.
What if only ONE had? Would we be so ready to believe her? How likely is it that a jury would have convicted in what would be, after all, a he said/she said situation. (I said “NO.” “She consented. Then I didn’t give her a big role she was hoping for and she claimed it was rape.” OR “We’d both had a bit too much to drink. She came up to my room. We had sex. She was into it as much as I was. Then when her boyfriend/H found out, she said I used force.” )
I have almost zilch contact with the movie industry. But years ago, I worked with an attorney who had the same name as a famous director. So does a relatively famous orchestra conductor. By pure coincidence, all 3 stayed in the same well known hotel in Beverly Hills at the same time. By accident, the desk clerk gave the attorney the room meant for the famous director.
Anyway…the attorney (who was about 60 at the time and not at all good looking) was stunned by the fact that several beautiful young women threw themselves at him, followed him to his room, propositioned him in the bar, etc. My friend would never commit adultery. He was flabbergasted by what was happening…until he finally figured out why. My point is–flame away–SOME women do try to advance their careers through the casting couch. I doubt it’s rare.
As someone said upthread, if HW offered some young woman a part for sex and she agreed, it wouldn’t be right, but it wouldn’t be rape. So, if in each individual case, if HW claimed that is what happened, how would anyone else know which version was the truth?
They wouldn’t know which version was the truth and thus it is extremely likely that press reports would read “law enforcement declined to take the case any further.” To most people that says “she made it up” even though the truth may be otherwise. And that woman is now finished in the industry. I understand the reasoning these women employed when they decided to keep it to themselves and try and move forward.
ETA: And when this story first broke – before the rape allegations were made-- HW admitted to the harassment and improper conduct in the hotel rooms. He never denied any of that. He promised to “make things right” by these women --by which I assume he meant quiet settlements. The more serious allegations on non-consensual sex he has denied.
Victim blaming would be blaming the individuals for what happened TO THEM. That is not what anyone is doing. What they do deserve blame (and some level of responsibility for) is staying silent about what HW was doing and allowing the cycle to continue for how many years? 30-40 at least? How many additional women suffered indignities and/or crimes at his hands because there wasn’t enough of an outcry?
The parts of the Rosenberg article that rang true were the “everbody f—in’ knew” and the Why of the culture of silence. They stayed silent because they were profiting from HW and his ilk. Actors, actresses, producers, directors, screenwriters, NBC news and other media outlets…they all got ahead in their careers because they looked the other way. When someone occasionally did try to speak up…where were all these additional voices then? Where was Jolie’s voice, or Paltrow’s voice then? When they had fame, name recognition, and thus the power to make a difference…where were they? Plain and simple…they didn’t want the gravy train to stop and the ends justified the means for them…regardless of how many other victims came after them. I don’t for one second buy the “who were we supposed to tell?” rationalization. You tell everyone and anyone you can. When the Matt Damons of the Hollywood community use their influence to squelch the story…you go to another outlet. And another…and another…until someone listens. You worry more about righting what you KNOW is wrong that you do about how it will affect your career. Who knows which snowball could’ve started the avalanche that we see today. A 22 year old Italian actress that probably none of you ever heard of mustered up the courage to speak up and not quit trying…and it worked. Imagine that.
If people can’t distinguish between victim blaming and blaming people once they become enablers…that’s your own personal problem.
Have no fear though…by the time the next Oscars or Emmys ceremony rolls around the Hollywood elites will have some different colored ribbon to wear touting their “horror” at a cycle of behavior that they themselves have perpetuated for decades. How pathetic that some think these are the people we should listen to for any type of life advice. L-) :-q