<p>nngmm, the odd thing is that my BIL would often invite his wife on these trips, and genuinely seemed to like it when she came. So just because he is inviting her does not mean that he is not dallying in emotional (or physical) connections with his students when she is not around. Just saying that is a possibility.</p>
<p>I can also state from personal experience that my cheating ex DID stop having sex with his wife (me) for the most part. So it does happen.</p>
<p>busyparent, yes–sexual intimacy can still trigger panic-attack type symptoms and more often, he says, a sort of scary dissociative state where he feels as if he’s not in his own body. His tension and apprehension are not exactly aphrodisiac, either for him or for me.</p>
<p>NSM: This quote from an article further explains what i was talking about in Post #312 when I said it might be time to use the “D” word with your husband and finally get his attention. Melinda, who is referred to here, was refusing to have sex with her husband.</p>
<p>"For Robert and Melinda, in the end it took the specter of divorce to get them back together. Without Melinda’s knowledge, Robert began spending all his free time searching for a new place to live. When he found an apartment and signed the lease, he went home and told Melinda that he was moving out and that they needed to sit down and tell the children. Melinda was stunned. “For the first time,” Robert recalls, “She understood how unhappy I was. By then it wasn’t just about the sex anymore: We’d gotten in the habit of sniping at each other and living separate lives in many ways.</p>
<p>“Then she surprised ME,” Robert recounts. “I thought she’d be relieved and readily agree to a separation, because things were so rotten between us.” Instead, Melinda’s shock gave way to a flood of tears, as she begged Robert to give their marriage one last chance. She proposed that they go to couples counseling, and for the first time in a long time she seemed to be interested in what he had to say. Overcome by her grief — and her sudden willingness to work on the relationship — Robert agreed to try a reconciliation."</p>
<p>“Now it’s not perfect, of course,” says Robert. “But we’ve developed a compromise that we can both live with. We’re being kinder to each other; we’re making time for each other, going away for weekends alone. We’re intimate again — on many levels.”</p>
<p>Here’s the link to the full article:</p>
<p>[The</a> Sex Starved Marriage: When Couples Stop Coupling Joannawillis’s Blog](<a href=“http://joannawillis.■■■■■■■■■■■■■/2010/06/04/the-sex-starved-marriage-when-couples-stop-coupling/]The”>The Sex Starved Marriage: When Couples Stop Coupling | Joannawillis's Blog)</p>
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<p>Thanks, canamer. Yeah, that’s all I was saying. I wasn’t saying that NSM’s H WAS DEFINITELY having an affair or that there were NO OTHER reasons men don’t want sex. I just wanted to rule out the most obvious one.</p>
<p>As for links to research, many people have already posted them on this thread. But again, I wasn’t saying cheating is the only reason men don’t want sex. I know there are physical, psychological, a million other reasons. </p>
<p>I’ve had too many friends wear blinders. They believed their hubbies were busy on their “5-hour bike rides” or “traveling for work” etc. too…until they found out about the other woman.</p>
<p>I want what you all want–for NSM to get some nookie. ;)</p>
<p>I didn’t take offense to what Hurtlocker posted. I’m interested in all perspectives.</p>
<p>The reviews on Amazon are certainly very positive for the book The Sex-Starved Marriage.</p>
<p>I don’t find it hard to believe that there are men in their 50’s and older who have low sex drives, or at least lower than their wives, since I know a few myself. Without exception, these men have “intimacy problems” of the emotional kind. They truly love their wives (one man I know is newly engaged), but tend to disengage emotionally from them. I don’t know if it’s a life-long habit/coping mechanism (I tend to think it is) as well as certain daily habits, like working hard and interacting with others all day long, then wanting to unwind at home with non-contact activities: TV, online surfing, reading, etc.</p>
<p>Anyway, my point is that not all uninterested men are cheating men.</p>
<p>NSM, you don’t have to answer this but I wonder if you have ever asked him point-blank why he is not interested in being intimate? Even if he doesn’t give you any kind of answer, his reaction would probably be revealing. </p>
<p>Also, there is an alternative to threatening to divorce if he continues to reject you. You could suggest that you keep a “friend” on the side to meet your needs. I realize that NSM is much too classy to actually do something like this, but you could imagine that you are a heroine in a French movie… or the like. Would be interesting to see his reaction to this too. Sorry if this suggestion is too outre. I don’t mean to sound flippant.</p>
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<p>Believe it or not, my own mother-in-law has made this suggestion to me. I myself still cannot believe it.</p>
<p>Interesting relationship with your MIL. </p>
<p>Also, I want to clarify something about reduced sex drive post menopause. I don’t mean that the ability or interest is gone – I mean the craving is gone. Since I don’t happen to have a partner it’s just as well, it eliminates a point of frustration and makes me happier overall. </p>
<p>But I don’t think I would have a problem if I had a partner. I’ve read that lubrication can be a problem – and that stands to reason, since in general my skin is dryer post-menopause - but I know what k-y jelly is for. But the parts work in general, and menopause doesn’t stand in the way of getting aroused. </p>
<p>But I have a secondary issue – which is that I personally don’t really want a hook up – I’d want to be in a caring relationship with someone I can love and trust. So either I will meet someone who fills that role or I won’t – but there’s no temptation to fool around just for the sake of satisfying urges.</p>
<p>So to me it doesn’t really feel like a loss – more like a settling down of something that made me unhappy, because of my status. It certainly doesn’t feel like something that would stand in the way of a relationship, though I’ve pretty much lost motivation for dating games (like going to 10-minute dating groups or singles events where the focus is on partnering). But I’m very happy to meet new men in other social contexts – so there’s nothing standing in the way of something happening.</p>
<p>Just a couple of thoughts from someone who is not in a long marriage – was widowed 11 years ago when my two kids were young. It was not a good marriage, and would not have lasted. Enough said on that score. I have been on my own and focused largely on raising my kids – one “neurotypical”, one gifted/LD – took much, much, much more effort to raise S than to raise my NT daughter . Both are doing well now, and that is a wonderful feeling. Our small family seems to have “made it.” I will be an empty-nester in two months. Have not done too much dating; have done a bit within the past year, but am single. My priority has absolutely been my kids, and I think that everyone who knows me would vouch for that.</p>
<p>I completely disagree with those who suggested you should stay in a marriage because of adult children. It would be childish and self-centered of adult children to expect that of a parent, in my opinion. Sure, adults can still be childish and self-centered vis-a-vis their parents, and I’m sure that I was sometimes when mine were alive. But just as (after a year or two), I will make a decision whether or not to downsize my home based on what’s best for me, not what my young adult children want (because it’s my life), I don’t get people advising you to base this decision that is so momentous for your own happiness, on what adult children would think. </p>
<p>Regarding your vows – you have done a tremendous amount to honor those vows, OP. More than enough. You should now, in my opinion, decide to do what’s best for you.</p>
<p>I am not suggesting that you rush into divorce. What I would suggest is taking ownership of this decision, so that 10 years down the road, whatever situation you are in, you will feel that you made the best decision that you could, under the circumstances. It may be that you will consider full-time work in order to avoid the sense that your husband feels that you will put up with pretty much anything because of financial dependence (forgive me if I’m not interpreting what you said correctly). From what you have said, your finding work may involve relocating to a different community. That would mean leaving many friends and your community theatre interests. Maybe selling the family home; obviously I don’t know if you are a homeowner. But, none of these actions would get any easier as more time passes.</p>
<p>Is living together as “cordial roommates” a deal-breaker? I think that it would be for me, after I had done everything in my power to get my spouse to address the problem (check out possible medical issues, consider sex therapy, consider the possibility of an affair, etc.) Also, it’s not as if you have not communicated your deep unhappiness with the situation. You have. Whether or not you decide to stay, it could be really important to seek time with a skilled therapist individually, and to be honest with yourself about your reasons for staying (or going). </p>
<p>I wonder how many people would advise a man who has been rebuffed regarding physical intimacy over a period of months and years by his spouse to stay in that marriage? I do find it interesting that the large majority of posters would advise you to stay.</p>
<p>You would not have posted about this if you were not in a lot of pain. It is a sad situation, and I know that I and everyone else who has posted wish you the best.</p>
<p>I agree that there is absolutely no obligation to stay in an unhappy relationship for the sake of the adult children “comfort”.</p>
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<p>OK–so NSM’s H would have been “justified” in bailing on her during her extended bout of deression because she was unavailable for sexual intimacy? How prolonged or frequent must the “no-s” be before a spouse is justified to bail? Two months, three?</p>
<p>However, in a slightly different vein, magicsmom, it is a huge mistake for spouses to get so wrapped up in parenting that their relationship with each other goes to pot – paving the way for lack of intimacy once the kids leave the nest. We all love our kids. However, our kids (hopefully) are going to grow up and start their own lives, families and households. They do NOT want to be the focal point of your life, even before they leave the nest.</p>
<p>When her kids were younger, my sister was having marital problems partially because her husband wanted a lot more sex than she did. She mentioned the d-word because she felt he was totally insensitive to how much of her time and energy were expended on the kids. Eventually she figured out that her role as a mother had consumed her, she was a lot more involved with her kids than she needed to be (or they needed her to be), and her relationship with their father was suffering as a result (leading to a less-than-optimal environment for the family). She made a conscious decision to focus on her marriage as the most important relationship in her life. Today she and her husband are happy empty-nesters with terrific relationships with their grown-up kids and grandkids.</p>
<p>I think most of the single parents who have posted here have figured out that they cannot focus their lives and their happiness on their kids (especially grown ones). It is also something that married parents need to figure out.</p>
<p>When I asked my H- how come the no sex- the reply was " I dunno".
oh yeah- helpful</p>
<p>I wouldn’t suggest a divorce right off the bat- but if nothing else had changed or was likely to- I would think a separation would be a good idea- and couples counseling or if that wasn’t workable- whomever would go to counseling should go.</p>
<p>when we had our no sex period- which lasted for years- my youngest needed a lot of care and I was giving 97% of it.</p>
<p>7dad, Long enough to have discussed it and to see if the partner cared and took action.</p>
<p>Magicsmom, exactly what I’ve been thinking–if this was a male posting, would the advice be the same? It sounds like it’s your turn. I waited until my last was in college to divorce, separating the October after he left. By December I knew my life was about to get much, much better. I hope you really enjoy your empty nest and find real love if that’s what you seek.</p>
<p>I was on a medication for several years that changed my iibido, not for the better. It was a source of frustration for both of us, and yet I am glad my H didn’t ditch me. I didn’t know why I felt the way I did, I just felt differently. </p>
<p>I think it would have harmed our relationship if he threatened divorce over it. I couldn’t control it. I doubt if I would have trusted him after that, always wondering if that was going to come out in a conversation. </p>
<p>After going off the meds, I was back to normal. :)</p>
<p>Never underestimate how medications, stress, fatigue and physical ailments can impact a sex life and relationship.</p>
<p>Taking calmom’s point that the urgency of sexual desire may diminish after menopause the question should be is it worth losing a best friend because of the lack of sexual intimacy. It’s a personal decision.</p>
<p>As for staying in a marriage because of adult children, I wouldn’t advocate for that either. But that’s not the way I would see it. Perhaps I’m slightly older and my kids are finishing college. I like being part of an intact family. More than having romance? Tough call, but equally I would guess.</p>
<p>I want my home to be a place where my kids can always come, with their kids, too. An intact marriage seems to facilitate that. But just a bit.</p>
<p>I don’t think it’s the deciding factor.</p>
<p>My H is a complete lunatic with lots of problems that cause deprivation in a lot of areas. I have thought of divorcing him many, many times. Unfortunately, (or fortunately) he’s still my best friend and I still love the guy.</p>
<p>The way NSM writes, I wonder if she could disentangle herself, even if she decides she’s had enough. Some of us can’t.</p>
<p>I have never been good at breaking up with anyone. Once I love him, I love him. Some higher self has to whoosh in and save me by providing some change in circumstance. In regards to my marriage that still hasn’t happened.</p>
<p>I know I’ve said this upthread, but the OP’s marriage seems colored by residual feelings from the moves made for career reasons and how it played out for the two spouses. I would work on these first with counseling and then look at the sex issues.</p>
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<p>That does not surprise me at all. I’m pretty sure my husband really doesn’t know the real reasons why he has withdrawn. If I try to talk to him he gets very defensive and says things that I know are not the real reasons. He is very invested in not knowing, from what I can tell, and with not dealing – he basically has instituted a 'don’t ask, don’t tell" policy on this issue and hates it when I violate this unspoken policy (I am not implying that he is gay; he is not.) That’s one of the odd things about it and not sure if this is the case with NSM, but I have spent an enormous amount of mental and emotional energy trying to figure it out, and he would like nothing more than to simply pretend that the entire subject does not exist. When I do bring it up, he reacts in such a way that I wish I hadn’t. In general, he hates any conversation that he perceives as some kind of criticism – and there is no positive way to discuss this that he doesn’t perceive as a criticism. Not sure about NSM’s husband, but the D word can make some men go in the opposite direction in terms of feeling so deeply rejected and criticized that they pull further back. I have a feeling, and I’m probably projecting here, that NSM’s husband is a little like mine and really may not have a whole lot of self-awareness about this and doesn’t know how to climb out of the hole he has dug at this point. Sometimes when a spouse is saying “leave me alone” on an issue, it’s because it’s easier to live a life where he pretends it isn’t a problem, than dive into some painful introspection about both a perceived lacking and the fact that, at this point, he has let someone he loves down very badly; a personal failure that would be devastating if he really looked at it.</p>
<p>NSM,</p>
<p>I can’t recall if you have said whether or not your husband is affectionate in less sexual, but physical, ways. Does he hold your hand or put his arm around you or hug you when he sees you? If he doesn’t, it might be worth examining if that would be enough for you to feel differently and if it’s something he might be able to offer you. Do you ever sit next to him on a couch and just take his hand? Is he open to that? I know it doesn’t solve the sex problem, but even some physical connection might ease your loneliness.</p>
<p>"Does he hold your hand or put his arm around you or hug you when he sees you? "</p>
<p>He holds my and and will put his arm around me and kiss me lightly on the lips to greet me. He’s not ice cold.</p>