<p>You are correct that married couples need to continue to “date” and see themselves as a couple - not just as parents. But trust me, it’s one thing to know this and another to live it.</p>
<p>Things don’t always go smoothly and we make compromises for the good of the family unit.
For instance- work schedules don’t always coincide- child care is expensive and can be hard to find, other obligations come up that need to be handled.
It can be pretty easy to lose sight of the big picture.</p>
<p>Totally agree with calmom and mimk6. We love having teens in the house, and with one left in the house, I know that things will change when she goes to college. I am excited and sad, all at the same time. I really like my kids! With each one leaving the nest and building their own lives, it has been at times difficult and bittersweet. I like who they have become but I also miss the day to day banter, the full refrigerator suddenly being emptied by growing kids and all their buddies who would hang out for no reason. </p>
<p>When the kids are little, as parents you are focused on so many different tasks, and those tasks change along with their shoe sizes! By the time parents figure out how to navigate one stage, another one pops up out of nowhere. You keep relearning how to parent with each stage.</p>
<p>During this time, if you are lucky enough to stay together as a couple, you are re-learning how to parent, but now with children who become adults. It’s different. </p>
<p>Date nights help to stay in touch with your spouse, this is for sure. But so does a flexible attitude and enjoying the times you have with your growing family. </p>
<p>This may sound weird, but I think text messaging has helped in my relationship with my H. He would get annoyed with phone calls about things when he was working, but I can text him about plans or something minor that I need to remind him about or what the game schedule is going to be, or something completely random and funny that happened. It has helped keep the lines of communication open in a way that I really appreciate. Also, never underestimate a little flirtatious texting. It works on grown ups, too. :D</p>
<p>Redroses,
I found my spouse in college. If I would have waited until I was 30, I would have missed out on a great guy. Yes, I was too young by those standards. Oh well. </p>
<p>Pierre,
I recommend that when you find the right person, don’t wait. It may be 20 or 25 or 20 or 35 when you meet that person. Arbitrary time lines don’t work for everyone. My co-worker will tell you that the right woman for him got away, because he felt too young to settle down. He never found another that he loved as much as her…and she is happily married to someone else. He is now in his 40’s and realized he made a mistake.</p>
<p>Also, I have to say, depending upon how you want to space out your kids, well, waiting a long time to marry can have a significant impact on your child-rearing. I enjoy being young enough to enjoy their activities and am glad I will be younger when they are all grown.</p>
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</p>
<p>For some of us, our 30 year or so relationship IS the real thing. It may not look the same as what it looked like when we were in our 20’s, but it is definitely the real thing. That I have had to put in some effort, and really open up and talk about what I wanted and needed with a man I have been with since I wanted and needed much different things in no way diminishes how “real” our love is, or how important this love is…to both of us.</p>
<p>I have settled for nothing less than absolutely everything… a committed long term relationship with the man I married a looong time ago. We have a history, children together, the usual ups and downs of long term passion and real affection. The fact that there have been a few times when we have had to work through things and get to know each other and recommit at different stages and different phases only makes our marriage and our affair and our relationship more worthwhile and more “the real thing.”</p>
<p>I’m sorry your first marriage wasn’t the “real thing,” but given how NSM, and many other women on this thread are speaking about thier partners, you may really be projecting your own experience of what is real onto others. </p>
<p>My parents are divorced, as are my husbands, and I can tell you, since your kids are still so young and your divorce so new, that you have also given up a tremendous amount of intimacy with your children. My friends whose parents stayed together, who never had to sit through thanksgiving with some guy they didn’t know or even care about at all, sitting there, as well, or with his kids or whatever, enjoy thier trips home WAY more than any of us with divorced parents ever will. Sorry, but even though I’m happy my mother is happy? I hardly consider her husband to be some big bonus in the whole family situation…</p>
<p>There are huge considerations when you have teenage daughters in leaving them alone at your mother’s house with a man who is not your own dad. You really don’t know the full ramifications of your choices, yet, though your choices were obviously right for you.</p>
<p>As in most things, there are so many different answers. The most important thing is that we empathize with each other.</p>
<p>And why is any way the right way?</p>
<p>People do what they can.</p>
<p>Redroses, I am happy for you, really. And not judging you at all.</p>
<p>And many days I wish I could divorce my H. His flaws have cost our family dearly. But I love the guy. I also didn’t want my kids to visit him in his studio amid his mounds of papers with barely enough money to clothe himself and no health insurance. I think that would kill them and make them furious too.</p>
<p>Our society puts a lot of emphasis on personal happiness. That’s fine. But there is communal happiness, too.</p>
<p>I have sown my wild oats many times. I have a demanding career that brings me face to face with many fascinating adults every day. I am a novelist working on people published and a published essayist and poet.</p>
<p>There are many, many avenues in my life toward personal fulfillment.</p>
<p>Having a red and orange cardinal in my yard at the same time is pretty groovy. (I am definitely dating myself there.)</p>
<p>Just to pipe in, I am happy to see Pierre post here. I have often posted to him, and I must say, he is really a good kid. He has a strong value system, and I really hope my son meets someone like him in college to inspire him. It is very sweet to hear him worry about his parents’ relationship and what his future holds for him. You can post here anytime, Pierre. We’ll try to keep it PG rated.</p>
<p>Thank you, poetgirl, for your post. Although a newly divorced young woman is entitled to her happiness, she still does have to consider the wellbeing of her children first.</p>
<p>I work in the legal field, and nothing burns me up more than the pretty young women who will bleed their ex husbands dry with child support demands and custody battles that cost them dearly in legal fees, when their first order of business is to find a babysitter so they can go out and have a newfound social life.</p>
<p>Okay. You can throw the tomatoes now.</p>
<p>Re reasons for divorce and the aftermath-</p>
<p>My first marriage was miserable; even so, the divorce was totally soul sucking and the aftermath was not pleasant to deal with.</p>
<p>Am I glad I divorced? Absolutely. I am much happier in my second marriage. For my son though, he really lost out on the experience of growing up in a loving 2 parent family.</p>
<p>His father was bitter and vindictive for years afterward, using S as a pawn to get back at me. He eventually married a woman who was cold and indifferent to my son.</p>
<p>I found happiness in my second marriage, but my husband has not really been a parent to my son - more the friendly, semi authoritative guy who is married to his mom. So S has grown up without a strong male authority figure to look up to, and I feel bad that he did not get the childhood he deserved.</p>
<p>So there really is no answer that will solve everything. You kind of muddle through and do the best you can. Divorce can be an answer to some things, but not a necessarily a cure all. Or it can lead to different problems.</p>
<p>As Mythmom said…no one way is the right way. I admire Redroses for going for it. I don’t have the energy, nor I guess is it bad enough that I try…yet. I had liked the idea of being in a marriage for better or worse and having shared history…but then I discovered that those things didn’t mean anything to my H. So now my hold on him is tenuous…I don’t know why he’s still here so by the same token I don’t know what will make him leave. The uncertainty makes it all rather pointless and talking about it only leads to rolling of the eyes…or comments like why do you keep reading things into everyting I say. We were once friends…we did date nights throughout our childrens childhoods…but when a man reaches his mid-life, (I may be projecting here), his mortality, his attractiveness and his sex life seem to take on a whole new meaning.</p>
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<p>Now this seems honest. This is true, also, for all of us. </p>
<p>I’m glad you are happier.</p>
<p>Wow. Where is Betty Friedan. There’s some amazing book of social history on this thread. On the one hand it seems sad, all this unfulfilled yearning and missed potential. But on the other hand, we are so lucky. Our children have food, have educations, don’t have to walk over land mines, at present aren’t draftable and we have no war on our soil.</p>
<p>My apologies to mothers of young men and women fighting overseas.</p>
<p>Most of us have health care.</p>
<p>None of us has to wear a burkah, though some may elect to do so. We can talk to men who aren’t our husbands, we can contemplate sex with men who are not our husbands and we can obtain divorces.</p>
<p>I think there is just a good portion of dissatisfaction in the human condition.</p>
<p>natmicstef – If I read you correctly I am very sorry. It sounds like a very uncomfortable situation.</p>
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</p>
<p>The Buddha would, in fact, say dissatisfaction IS the human condition.</p>
<p>^^^^^touche!</p>
<p>Amen, poetgirl! We have so much, as well as so much possibility, that we make ourselves crazy figuring out what to do with it all. An embarrassment of riches. </p>
<p>My feeling about divorce is that it is exchanging one set of issues for another. Some may be happier with the independence, feel psychological freedom is worth all. I was more interested in keeping the bills paid years ago, and did not appreciate that stress for the sake of my ex’s freedom. But I certainly enjoyed the first 6 months of single life after a bad marriage. I had relationships, and was certainly better for the self esteem than my awful marriage. But it is not an easy life, as someone posted above. I never did feel comfortable bringing most men into the family fold, though they gained some things from their dad’s and my relationships. </p>
<p>From what I’ve seen in the midlife dating world, I think divorce ruins some people in ways they never recover from. Trust is compromised, the ability to be genuine and kind, sometimes lacking. Though it can be a cart or horse situation, and those who tend towards divorce, myself included can be fundamentally flawed. </p>
<p>I’m sad for my kids, that they have been dragged through some hard situations between their dad and me. I was sad for my son last night, describing his discomfort staying with his dad’s new GF, in his dad’s new town. But my kids did have a good relationship with his old GF, and I know there were positives gained. </p>
<p>My parents are divorced, and I can’t imagine them together. I grew from their evolution as people separate from each other. But they never had much discord, and got along well, which made things quite easy for us kids, Christmases together, etc. My dad’s 2 marriages added immeasurably to my life, with much positive for me in terms of role models and varied experiences. </p>
<p>I never wanted to be divorced, and do envy the friends who are heading for 30 years of marriage to celebrate. Having not made it, am very much in awe. I’ve done my share of internet dating, had a blast, as well as some heartbreak, but never found anyone worthy of commitment and the efforts to blend families. My kids make me too happy to want to compromise family time with them. The empty nest is hard at times, but many things make me happy and bring fulfillment.</p>
<p>Thanks for this thread. Last night, my husband of 23+ years said he wanted a divorce (not the first time, but we have serious issues lately.) He spends all his time at work, (anyone would suspect that he’s having an affair, the hours he spends at his office–though I’m positive he’s actually working.) He has absolutely no involvement with our kids, no interest in our home. He goes to work and pays for everything. The little bit of time that he’s not working, he participates in other activities/organizations that are just for him. When he comes home he either falls asleep, sits on the computer, or reads, never interacting with us. He is a fundamentally selfish person. He acts like he is single–just makes decisions about what HE is going to do without considering anyone else–yet expects everyone else to obey/serve him. He has an explosive temper (nothing new, he has been abusive physically, verbally, psychologically at times throughout our marriage–though this is not his usual state, and probably makes him sound worse than he is. No one who knows him professionally would ever believe how he acts at home. He likes being praised/admired at work, but doesn’t care if his kids hate him for his yelling/bullying.) I’ve thought of taking the kids and driving away many times. I wish he cared about having a relationship (besides sex) with me. I wish he would take an interest in our kids, house, and property instead of leaving everything to me. I wish we were on the same team, but he is not a team player. Still, I don’t want to get divorced. I do love him and he does have some good qualities that I admire. We’ve been through a lot together. I want our family to stay together–we can’t really afford to live separately. I am not interested in having a relationship with any other man. I don’t have a career, and I don’t want to start a new life. I don’t think divorce will improve my life–it might take away some stress, but add others. For his part, he thinks I’m a very lazy wife, and he could certainly find someone better. He has recently talked about counseling–I think he believes a counselor will focus only on MY faults (which I have plenty) because he is blind to his own. I am willing to go, but I doubt he will ever “find the time”. He doesn’t want to change. He thinks everything is my problem. I saw someone posted “Have you ever thought of being NICE to each other?” I realize that I am very critical/negative because I am so angry/unhappy. I am trying to make a small step toward being nicer. For example, we have passes to a community pool. In 15 years he’s never gone there with the kids/me. Instead of complaining about that (because I know he will NEVER go), I thanked him for paying for the passes. This morning I got up early and fixed him breakfast before he left for work (which I very rarely do.) </p>
<p>My parents stayed married and I never questioned their relationship. They always worked together, and I thought that was what marriage would be like. I appreciate the stability they provided, and I worry about the bad example H and I provide to our kids. H’s parents stayed together, though his dad was abusive (worse than H). H’s grandparents separated because his grandfather was extremely abusive. I see how this family curse has been passed down.</p>
<p>Luvmykid, please read this book:</p>
<p>The Verbally Abusive Relationship: How to Recognize It and How to Respond By Patricia Evans</p>
<p>In an abusive relationship, your kids may be better off with a breakup. My kids were very relieved and grateful when their dad left – like your husband, he had an explosive temper and the kids were terrified. </p>
<p>But the book above will give you the tools and insight to try to save your marriage, if it is salvageable – and to figure out whether it fits that category or not.</p>
<p>lurvmykid, when you’re in a situation like that, its seems that living like that is the only way there is. In my case I grew up with an abusive alcoholic father, so it just seemed like normal to me.</p>
<p>I agree with calmom that your kids may not agree that having an intact dysfunctional family is better than the alternative. And from experience, I’ll say that you may be surprised at how sweeter life can be without having to deal with someone like that all the time.</p>
<p>Good luck-</p>
<p>luvmykid, so sorry for what is happening to you. If your husband doesn’t go to counselling, I would strongly suggest that you do it for yourself. I get the feeling there is some self esteem issues and possilbly depresssion that you may have and it may help you going forward, your children may benefit as well. I agree that keeping your family intact the way it is , may not be the best thing for your children. Believe me, these things do not go unnoticed by your children and will have lasting effects on them. Is there any drug or alcohol issues? Explosive behavior may be an indication of drug/substance abuse as well as bipolar disorder. I am not a therapist, but have seen this play out in my profession. Does he threaten divorce frequently? Hopefully he isn’t using this to may you cower or feel infefrior.
Life is about choices and you do have options. Sometimes we have to make the hard choice and go the road that may be less travelled, but we come out ok, because it was the right thing to do. Best of luck.</p>
<p>Our society puts a lot of emphasis on personal happiness. That’s fine. But there is communal happiness, too - well said…</p>
<p>Or rather, in my case, timely said, as I thought of last night. The house was full of the kids’ friends, full of laughter, and activity. And my H separated himself, retreated into his own space yet again, and did not engage with me or with the wider group. I thought of how happy I was amidst the activity of the household, yet how sad I was that my primary relationship really was not primary in that dynamic…</p>
<p>Sad…</p>
<p>Parents who say they are staying together for the kids are fooling only themselves. As a child my parents fought constantly. I would lay in my room with my hands over my ears and cry or fantasize about the day they would get divorced so I could get away from that caustic environment. This kind of situation takes a hard toll on a child’s self esteem and future relationships.</p>