<p>pugmadkate - post #55 made my day, thanks!</p>
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Most likely, yes. I am expected to get my own job this summer to help save up money for college. However, I want to do everything that they’ve let me do on my own. * I * wanted to attend college, so I applied for every school that I was accepted to [only state/public schools, but it was a test for my early-senior year self] with the help of my dad’s swiped credit card. Eventually, I just got all of his information down on one sheet of paper for convenience. But I’ve filled out housing, done my FAFSA, applied to all of the colleges, studied for my ACT/SAT, and signed up for my APs/passed all the APs I’ve taken on my own accord.
It’s really about autonomy. I wouldn’t have it any other way. I’m confident now that I can handle my responsibilities as a college student well.
[from my perspective] Helicopter Parents: Just let go. It’s difficult, but your kid will either sink or really float and succeed. At this point, it’s really up to the individual. You’ve either instilled solid values or you haven’t.</p>
<p>“This is a tough economy. I don’t think there’s anything bad about parents forwarding job listings, giving some advise, providing connections. Most of the kids I know who got internships last year got them through parental or family connections. 2009 was a particularly horrible year and 2010 is not much better. So let’s be real. But there’s a limit, and in this article, some of have crossed it.”
I agree with entirely with that.</p>
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<p>I guess it depends on the kid! My kids very much appreciate the links I send them, and have asked me to keep on sending stuff when I ask them if I am sending too much or they want me to stop. My daughter was looking for a position with a nonprofit so I was sending her postings from Idealist.org - and my son and his wife were recently looking to move to a larger apartment, so I was sending them stuff from Craigslist. My daughter found a job – and my son found a place – through the same listing services I was using, but from different listings than the ones I had sent — so that’s proof that they were independently looking on their own, and that two pairs of eyes are better than one.</p>
<p>But again… my personal rule is to <em>send</em> and never mention it again. If they didn’t like what I sent or follow up on it, it isn’t my business. I just saw myself as kind of an auxiliary clipping service – an internet “bot” with a human brain.</p>
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<p>Has that been useful? I ask because I noticed during my daughter’s recent job hunt, that while she sent out dozens of applications, she only heard back from employers where she had a skill set or experience that was very closely targeted to something they wanted.</p>
<p>That makes sense, obviously. I started to try to put myself in the shoes of the employer when I looked at listings – thinking, would I hire my daughter for this position? If so, why? Or would I be looking for someone with different experience or qualifications? </p>
<p>My sense is that <em>quality</em> might be very important in a competitive job market – and it might be a better use of time to work on targeting the right jobs, or developing specific resumes highlighting experience or education which is a good fit to the job being sought. </p>
<p>I think you have to assume that for any publicly posted listing, there are going to be hundreds of applications, and someone is going to have to go through them and isolate the ones that seem most interesting. So if there isn’t something on the resume that is going to stand out from the crowd … “quantity” may make the job applicant feel better, but I’m not sure if it improves chances of getting the job. </p>
<p>But I’m asking because I really don’t know. I think the job my d. found is a perfect fit for her background, interests and talents… but maybe that’s just a matter of luck. However, my son’s post-college employment is also a very good match to his earlier work experience.</p>
<p>My husband and I settled for “quantity” when we got out of engineering grad school in 1986, when the economy also sucked. We used mail-merge and sent out 273 resumes with cover letters that started, “We are a newly married couple looking for work as structural engineers in the _______ area…” We got maybe 5 responses, a couple of them stating that they didn’t have any jobs, but some suggestions. BUT our tactic worked, and we both got job offers at a firm in Maine.</p>
<p>I still blush when I think about my first job. My boss, Winona, was quite the yeller and scared me to death. During the summer, I wanted to go on vacation with my parents but I was afraid to ask. So my mother called her! You can imagine the fireworks. It was a good lesson, and I will never repeat the mistake with my own kids.</p>
<p>To the person who asked about the resume for a college graduate and putting RPI award from HS on it. I personally would not put it on it. By the way, one of my daughters also won it and it was on her resume when she applied to college but not after she graduated college. The resume for a college graduate has achievements during the college years. It can have work experience that dates back to HS if relevant, or if there is not enough work experience yet and gradually those things start coming off the resume when new experiences take their place. But HS awards generally are not on resumes for college graduates, unless some very fancy shmancy national award of significance.</p>
<p>I think it really depends on individual circumstances. My son started out at a highly selective private LAC, and transferred later on and graduated from a much less selective public college. So I’m pretty sure that his resume listed both colleges and noted that he was a National Merit scholar (technically a high school award, though it was listed along with the college). I think it was his way simply of countering the negative inference that might otherwise be drawn because of the lack of prestige of the college he graduated from. (That is, the assumption that he graduated from Podunk U because he wasn’t smart enough to get in anywhere else).</p>
<p>I think the goal is to create a resume that highlights the individuals talents and abilities. The specific information that fills that goal might vary in individual circumstances.</p>
<p>I don’t know. I advise many college applicants and for their resumes, I ask them to stick mostly with high school activities and achievements and not things from younger than that unless of very large significance. Likewise, for someone out of college, I think the resume should reflect the college years when it comes to achievements. Jobs prior to college may be relevant, but awards and such, often not so much. I’m sure there are exceptions. A major national award earned during senior year of high school may still be on the resume of a new college graduate, but not all their other HS awards. Just my general rule of thumb but individual circumstances apply. If a student has nothing to replace that stuff with, they may have to keep some old stuff on the resume, I suppose.</p>
<p>As an 18 year old looking for a job, I would like my parents to help me with transportation to work and for job hunting, would like them to see if there’s anything in their immediate circle which I could apply for, and give advice as needed. If my parent were to call a potential or current employer to complain “on my behalf,” I’d owe the person a humiliating apology call.</p>
<p>Parents, unless the business is a family one, should NEVER be involved in job hunting or salary negotiations or conflicts with the boss in this manner. Even if the kid has been actually mistreated at work (assaulted, sexually harassed, etc.), the parents should certainly offer help to their kid or put them in contact with/pay for a lawyer, but nothing else.</p>
<p>Is it any wonder why people complain that our generation is a bunch of spoiled brats?</p>
<p>IMO, I would not put the RPI award – or any other award earned in high school, no matter how prestigious – on the resume of a college senior, because it would seem like they hadn’t accomplished much in 4 years of college if they have to reach that far back. </p>
<p>On the other hand, I think it is entirely appropriate for college freshmen (and maybe even sophomores) to put it on their resume as they really haven’t had enough time to build a track record in college – and especially since eligibility for academic awards and honors are limited to upperclassmen at many colleges.</p>
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<p>My daughter applied to almost 40 internships, but ALL of them were closely targeted to her major, interests, and/or skills. I should have said that. She had multiple versions of her resume designed for slightly different types of internships, and she wrote cover letters specifically targeted at the requirements for each internship. </p>
<p>All I am saying here is that if a student doesn’t have “connections,” that student had better be prepared to apply for many internships or many jobs. My comparison between quality and quantity may not have been apt. Perhaps it would have been better to say that a student without networking opportunities needs BOTH quality (i.e., qualifications that are a good fit for the jobs/internships the student is applying for) and quantity (i.e., lots of applications and interviews).</p>
<p>What bothers me is when students post on these boards that “they couldn’t find an internship,” and it turns out that they only applied for three things. Even if you’re well qualified and a good match for the internships you’re applying for, unless you have some sort of “connection,” that’s not enough. And unfortunately, some students don’t know it.</p>
<p>I think a student can always find connections if they work hard enough. If they don’t have connections through friends and family, they can contact alums and ask for information interviews (not jobs) and begin to build a network. Use Linked in and Facebook. Attend professional meeting groups in the specific field of interest (many offer students free memberships) </p>
<p>My son applied to roughly 40 targeted internships (online) last year with targeted letters and resumes. High gpa…great record. He did get about 6 interviews but the competition was stiff. One well-known company in our area told him they get about 2,000 apps each year for 25 spots. Add a horrible economy (including canceling internships midstream) and rookie interviewing skills (most are just getting started). And some kids end up with NO internship. I think networking helps…a LOT…and even if you’re doing saturation bombing. But it’s hard. And it takes practice. And courage. Maybe even desperation…kids with cushy environments would probably prefer sleeping in. </p>
<p>But not being aggressive…and let’s face it…lucky…can have it’s consequences. Fast forward to next year and the juniors who didn’t get internships will find it VERY difficult to land jobs as newly minted graduates. If they’re lucky, THEY will get internships as graduates, blocking out those poor juniors. Hope this mess ends soon :)</p>
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<p>As in bus schedules? Or loaning you a car?</p>
<p>ok, I confess…</p>
<p>I did call a relative and say ‘Hello, nepotism calliing’ and this did lead to a very good job for my son.</p>
<p>I was at my University’s career center a few days ago and saw my counselor walking her prior appointment to the door. To my surprise, it was not only a current college student from my university but his mother, who was completely running the conversation. The guy didn’t say a word! It was all mom, “making sure” that the counselor was going to secure a high-profile internship for her son for this summer. I was thinking two things: a) it’s pretty late in the game to be internship hunting for this summer, and b) I would have been mortified if my parents had ever done anything like that. My job and internship searches were and will continue to be under my control! Here’s hoping the kid grows a backbone and takes charge of his own life.</p>
<p>I’m glad this thread has evolved somewhat into a discussion of internships. Three and four years ago, d2 had no difficulty finding them; this year, despite a fair effort on d3’s part, she came up short. She did lots of legwork - went to workshops at her college’s Career Center on resume writing and interviewing. Met with a counselor to review the resume, so now she has a good one. She hopes eventually to be a history teacher and didn’t have a clear idea of exactly what internships to apply to, but she knew she wanted one in the DC area. Found several online, but is home this summer working at her old job and doing volunteer work instead.</p>
<p>I think she could have done an internship rather easily in her college town, where there’s an extensive program in her area. But she wanted a big city experience, so she didn’t consider it (and tells me she won’t make the same mistake again). As Marian wisely points out above, students need to apply for lots of internships.</p>
<p>The one thing that steamed her (and me) was a 20-page application packet she did for a federal agency - cover letter, multi-page app form, writing sample, etc. Recs, of course. Followed up with a what she tells me was a polite email 2 weeks later to be sure it was received. Followed up with 3 polite phone messages spaced over 2 months to inquire whether it was received. Found the name of the person who previously had the job of internship coordinator, called her in case the person named online was no longer in charge, and actually got an answer from her that the person to whom the packet was addressed was indeed the correct person, and that she should keep trying to reach her. She did. Sometime in April, she called her US representative’s satellite office to ask if they had an idea of how she could get a response - they told her it was only then internship hiring season and that she’d probably hear soon (:rolleyes:). She followed up with a last phone message and email. Never a response. Now, she already knew that it’s a cold world out there and that most job applications never get a response. But it surprised her that the internship coordinator couldn’t just have typed “drop dead” and hit the reply button in recognition of the fact that she had jumped through every hoop and made a real effort to follow up. Everywhere else she followed up at responded.</p>
<p>Now she says that she can give a workshop on “How Not To Get an Internship.” :D</p>
<p>^^^ Didn’t mean for my last post to stray so far from the thread topic. I wish h or I could have put d3 in touch with someone in a position of influence who could have helped in her internship search. But we really don’t know any people in positions of influence. I don’t consider that sort of thing to be helicoptering, though. Speaking personally with a kid’s supervisor or interviewer? How many parents really do that?</p>
<p>I remember hearing about this situation occurring a couple years ago with some companies actually working with these parents. Personally, if I were hiring and it wasn’t a contact/friend of mine calling me to put in a good word for child, I would tell the parent I might consider hiring the parent, but it is obvious the adult child is incapable of being successful on his/her own. And although using contacts and networking is not helicopter parenting, those should be limitted to phone calls, and not to coming to the interview. Once the door is opened, the child needs to step in and take over.</p>
<p>I worked with a guy whose mom called the company to inquire about his first few days of work. The guy was completely normal, but the mom couldn’t let go. It was humiliating for him. He was a great worker, he just happened to have a mom in another city (purposely designed by said worker) who would not let go. His relationship with her is strained to this day - 20 years later.</p>
<p>I’m glad he was able to overcome his “mom”.</p>