Help a mom with a major decision about her son....

Parent Cafe
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<p>I have been prowling on these boards for a few days…when I googled a few subjects and was directed to this site. I am not sure this is the right place to post what I am posting so please redirect me, is that is the case or this belongs elsewhere.</p>

<p>It has taken a lot for me to write this, because I am super private, and I am very torn about a situation with my son. First a little background, we are fortunate enough to be affluent and educated parents, we have three children, Will (son in question) is the middle son we have one older son and a younger daughter. We have always been committed first and foremost to our family, our kids and their needs, I stopped working when my middle son was born and have been home raising these kids for 24 years, and wouldn’t change it for the world. My oldest son is in law school and doing well, has his life very together, lives on his own in Boston, has a girlfriend,etc…my daughter is an overachieving junior who is also successful and has her life very together. My husband is in corporate America and has a high position with an International company which is very rewarding but takes a lot of his time (often away from his family).</p>

<p>So…onto the reason I am here. Will, just turned 20, went to college for one year, was all over the map and during his second year-first semester, got mono and was out of school for almost 2 weeks. At that point he took a medical leave due to illness and confessing to us he didn’t feel like “belonged in college”. It was at first, devastating but my husband who is a product of “work from the bottom”, picked himself up and helped Will land a pretty decent job. All along, Will says he eventually wants to go back to school and we are fine with that AS LONG as he holds his own and is productive in his life, even if its a different path then his friends, we are very accepting of this and support him 100% because we recognize there is no one time table for every kid to grow up, mature and attend college.</p>

<p>So happens this job was landed because my husbands second cousin owns the business so he did this as a favor. Well, its been 3 months and its been very difficult. My son will go to work for lets say 3, 4 or 5 days and then decide he can’t get up one morning and not go in. We seem to repeat this pattern nearly every week. Just when I think he is growing up, he disappoints and embarrasses us again. I feel in part the blame, I have made things easy for him here, he is catered to and if I am to be honest without much consequence. Though lately I have been taking a stronger stand, removed his phone and computer, and the car was taken months ago for irresponsible behavior that he repeated. I will go up to wake him lets say six times, my cleaning lady goes up to wake him, his sister goes to wake him and when he doesn’t want to get up- he won’t get up. I make sure that all conveniences that could be enjoyed in our home are removed for that day, (more to make myself feel better) but he will often sleep through the day. He is very irresponsible, obviously and especially when it comes to him sleeping, he will often go to sleep at 3 or 4 am, knowing full well he has a job to go to in the morning! My husbands crazy and long hours and frequent traveling make this sometimes a job I must take on, on my own. Its very stressful to say the least. Will also drinks and occasionally smokes pot, need to tell you this is part of the picture as well.</p>

<p>Last night, he took my daughters car without asking and no one knowing and went out for an hour or two-she told me this morning that there were remnants of pot on the seat! On top of that he didn’t wake up for work, and my husband is in Australia for the next two weeks…after trying to wake him many times, it was to no avail, my daughter also tried to convince him to get up and stay strong and on task,etc…but he refused to get up saying he is just too tired.</p>

<p>I really need some advice, given what I have seen on this board…there are lots of parents who come here and honestly post their own stories or help others out with situations they may have experience with, with their own kids. I am really at a loss here…you will probably mention therapy, and he did start seeing someone for a few weeks but has decided he doesn’t need it and refuses to go. I have started seeing someone too about 10 days ago and so far, things seem to be fine…its a great place to vent.</p>

<p>Sorry for this being so long, but I wanted to be sure to include all the prevalent information so you would have enough background to help give me some advice. I am by nature, a very sensitive, giving and overly nurturing parent (wish I were less so). But I know this cannot go on like this, both for him and for myself. On the good days, things feel hopeful but on the bad days, like today, it feels hopeless and I feel defeated. We love him very much and so want to see him get back on his feet, but really feel like we have tried EVERYTHING from every possible angle…sometimes I feel like nothing will work or change the situation unless we kick him out of our house, which lingers in the back of my mind but truly at the same time is unimaginable. Any thoughts/advice?</p>

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<p>He has to take the responsibility for his life. You treat him as a kid, and he behaves like one. It is his job to wake himself up in the morning, not yours/your d’s or your housekeeper’s. It was nice of your family member to offer your son a job, but you should also let him know that he can expect your son to perform, or fire him if he does not.</p>

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<p>It may just be that he doesn’t want to take responsibility for his life, but has he been evaluated for depression?</p>

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<p>I’m so sorry you’re going through this. It seems that your best efforts are rewarded with a slap in the face. If he refuses therapy (which I believe from your post he would benefit a great deal from- especially Cognitive Therapy where the patient is required to take responsibility for his life) and he just can’t motivate himself to be productive, you need to work out some kind of consequences. I would do this with his knowledge and suggestions, if you can imagine that working.</p>

<pre><code>I’d first talk with your husband and see if you all can work out a time where you three can sit down and seriously talk about your son’s behavior, and write down some expectations and consequences for not following through. It needs to be in writing, like a contract. ( I know this sounds childish, but then, so is his behavior.) The three of you need to agree on the consequences, so it would be good if you and your husband talked and agreed in advance. If, for example, he loses his job due to not getting up in time, he will still be expected to pay rent after an agreed upon period of time, and you will agree on how much, as well as what chores he’s responsible for. If he can’t come up with the rent (and all allowances should be cut at this point) he will have to move out.
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<p>I don’t think you can just kick a kid out the door without any warning (at least I couldn’t) but it seems perfectly reasonable to do so after he’s had ample warning, and in some cases, necessary. You could also put caveats in the contract, such as if he agrees to therapy and is making progress with it, he can continue to live with you. Everything can be negotiable, but he needs to see that the two of you are not going to continue as you have been. </p>

<p>It’s really important that your husband be an equal partner in this, so you need to plan the timing when he is home and able to focus on this. I get the feeling from your post that your husband may not have recognized that the problem is as big as it is yet. You need to get him on board.</p>

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<p>I was wondering about depression, too, given how much he sleeps. The pot also worries me. It seems to me that a good therapist is essential here. He is refusing to go; can you make it a condition of his living with you?</p>

<p>I think it is important that the relative who gave him the job be told that you want him to treat your son as he would any other employee, and do whatever he would otherwise do (warnings/firing). Then you can insist that your son find another job on his own.</p>

<p>I’m sure you will get a lot of good advice from the wonderful posters here. Unfortunately, your story sounds very familiar. If you look around, maybe search under “therapist,” you will find some very long threads with stories like yours.</p>

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<p>Tell the cousin it is okay to fire him if he doesn’t carry his weight. Tell the twenty-year-old it is time to move out. Tell the daughter to hide her keys. Time to take a ride on the “tough love” train.</p>

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<p>It’s typically used in terms of addiction, but one of the things I’ve told my kid is that I will do anything to help him be successful but nothing to help him fail. </p>

<p>I absolutely agree that you and your husband need to be on the same page. Meet with your counselor together, make a plan.</p>

<p>You’re helping your kid fail. Which is, of course, the opposite of your intentions but that is the result. Your cousin is also helping him fail, no doubt out of loyalty to your husband. Your husband needs to let his cousin know that it’s okay to fire your son. </p>

<p>A good place to start would be with having him screened for depression, he may be self-medicating with pot. But if he refuses to do even that? Then you’re going to have to put him out of your house until he wants constructive help. If he agrees to the screen, and I hope he does, then come up with a list of other things he must do to earn his room and board.</p>

<p>My parents putting me out of our house was, in hindsight, the best thing that ever happened to me. It forced me to deal with the reality of my life. Within a week I had a job as a nanny, a room in an apartment and started my real, adult life. It was bumpy but it was truly a mercy that my parents did not let me fail both myself and them for any longer.</p>

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<p>We have outlined the “rules” more than you can imagine, had so many sitdowns that I have stopped counting. He is lukewarm on the whole therapist thing, but it could be a bargaining tool if need be. Re the relative who he is working for, unfortunately he is just too nice, we have told him dozens of times, to not feel any obligation towards us and in some ways he might be doing him a favor by firing him…his response (he doesn’t have kids) is that he really likes Will, believes in him and wants to give him yet another chance! He is ridiculously kind and warm hearted, and believe me, I wish he was a much tougher kind of a guy, but I guess if my husband speaks to him, about maybe even doing this for us, he would comply…its a little tricky. I know for sure that in the real world, this would not fly with ANY JOB.</p>

<p>The therapist in the limited time that she saw him did think he was depressed and really wanted him to try meds, he is just very against it. The person who said they have gathered that my husband doesn’t realize the seriousness of the situation was partly right- for a very long time, he kept saying “its a stage”, he will outgrow it,etc…but he now realizes this is more serious and is far from being a stage.
It really eats me alive partly because I feel totally helpless to help someone that I love and who really needs help. I don’t think throwing him out without due warning would help anything…in fact it could get much worse. </p>

<p>Has anyone out there had any kind of experience with a child like this? I see him putting forth some effort then regressing every few days,its very frustrating to help a kid who you are not sure is helping himself.</p>

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<p>It sounds as if your son is both depressed and self-medicating with pot and alcohol. That’s a tough situation to deal with. His denial will kick in that he even has a problem. And because he is 20, unlike a minor, you have no direct control over him and can’t make him go to therapy, rehab or anything else. </p>

<p>First thing you’re doing, however, is good—and that’s taking care of yourself. Therapy will give you some emotional strength and understanding. And take care of yourself physically too, as this situation is stressful and may last a while before it gets better. Get enough sleep, eat right, exercise, and strengthen or begin a spiritual practice (prayer, church, meditation or the like). And make sure to check that the youngest child is OK.</p>

<p>Some questions:
–Have you ruled out all physical illness? Can you at least get him to an MD for a checkup? He might not see that as quite as threatening, though he also might lie to you about what the doctor says. And as an adult he doesn’t have to tell you anything.</p>

<p>–Do you get any indications from his buddies or girlfriend that something in particular might have kicked off this behavior? He’ll be mad or embarrassed if you ask them directly, but he sounds like he’s sinking fast so I’d take the risk.</p>

<p>–Might things change if Dad were more strongly involved? After all, one parent is often perceived as just a nag—but two parents finding a non-threatening way to say the same thing are far more difficult to just blow off. </p>

<p>–Is his employer afraid to fire him for his erratic behavior? I’d talk to him too if I could to see what’s going on and encourage this family member not to cut him any more slack. </p>

<p>The more information you can find out from other people about your son the more you’ll be in a position to help him. You sound as if you’ve already set down rules about behavior around the house and that’s good, but if he truly has a mood disorder (depression) this won’t help at all. And his substance abuse issues may become worse. You might also consider an intervention after gathering information. It’s a hard situation and my heart goes out to you as my own has been struggling with depression and substance abuse too. But as a minor I had more options available. Its a long and difficult road. Hang in there.</p>

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<p>I agree with nngmm, he needs to be taking more responsibility for his life. Probably your husband finding him a job (versus him going out and getting a job himself) was not a good idea. But since that’s done you should tell your cousin that he should be treated like any other employee and fired if he doesn’t show up for work. </p>

<p>Also, it’s probably time to start talking to him about moving out of the house. It doesn’t sound like he has a lot of responsibilities (other than this job he doesn’t really go to), and maybe if he had less time and money to blow on things like alcohol and drugs, he might find he spends less time with those habits. Having to pay for rent, groceries, your own cell phone bill, your own car insurance, etc. can go a long way towards helping people gain responsibility. </p>

<p>Look at it from his perspective: right now, he has no real reason to get up for anything. He lives in a nice house, with plenty of amenities and food provided, probably gets a cell phone provided. No car, but he has friends and you can’t be around all the time to watch him, so whatever. He has no responsibilities except this job his dad got him that he probably wont’ be fired from. Doesn’t have to study, do chores, or anything. Seems like a pretty sweet set up. </p>

<p>He might need some things to give him momentum. Tell him he needs to sign up for some classes at community college or continuing education classes. Or even volunteer locally at a school or library. Give him chores. Anything to keep him from having a lot of time for lounging around not doing much.</p>

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<p>I think I would have a sit down with him and let him know that you want an honest exchange. My guess is that the job wasn’t his idea and he is floundering.</p>

<p>I would let him know you’re disappointed and hurt, but that as a parent you feel your real job is to get over that and support him in the way that he needs it most.</p>

<p>Ask him what he wants (sleep in, smoke pot, three hots and a warm bed, to sponge off others?) and if he needs a dose of reality and it’s just not feasible, be honest with him and tell him so. Let him know you want to be supportive, but there is a limit; then the hard part…really listen and see if you can get a good reassessment of where things stand with him.</p>

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<p>Oh boy, it does sound bleak doesn’t it? I guess I wanted to hear from others if it would be the right thing to encourage the relative to fire him for not showing up or showing up when he wants to. I think the only reason he isn’t is because out of obligation to us and because he genuinely likes him.
Unfortunately, his friends from school are all away so he really doesn;t have anyone around here anymore, just a few casual kids and the ones that stuck around I have strongly discouraged him from hanging around. He does not have a girlfriend. Dad was involved (still is) and actually took off a big chunk of time this summer to spend a lot of one on one time with him, and for awhile things seemed to be getting better but as I said its two steps forward, one step back.
I feel like my hands are tied, I don’t think I have it in me to do what I kind of feel needs to be done. I know we have done everything in our power to get him going in the right direction but for some reason (definitely internal on his part) he just regresses, this pattern has been going on for longer than I care to remember.</p>

<p>I am a strong person and can deal with this, but I am most upset that his life is just hanging in the balance, wiht no real direction, no sense of self or purpose. It kills me to witness this and to feel so helpless…how do you muster the strength to actually let a kid go? Let him go on his own? And furthermore, what legal steps are necessary to take becuase he has made it clear he will not leave on his own, but only if we have taken legal action to have him removed.</p>

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<p>I don’t think you want to take legal action. I still have nightmares of the time my Dad threw all my sister’s things into a trash bag and put it by the side of the road. Needless to say it didn’t turn out well for either of them or anyone else in the family.</p>

<p>I hear you’re tired, but the ray of light is that it’s often darkest before dawn. It looks like things can only go up from here. </p>

<p>As parents, like it or not, we signed on for this job and again, I don’t think you can just make decisions that affect your family unilaterally (without his input).</p>

<p>I’d continue to push for an ongoing honest dialogue with him. If he doesn’t like it, he’ll move out and maybe that’s the impetus he needs to make change (hopefully in the right direction, but either way, things gotta change). The job sounds like it’s a lost cause whether the employer fires him or he quits. Either way, it’s a moot point.</p>

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<p>Lots of good suggestions here. I would add something - I’d look carefully at exactly what is involved at his job. I am very influenced here by a great book that I just read, Escaping the Endless Adolescence, by Allen and Allen. The authors advocate meaningful work for adolescents and young adults, and they are quite specific about what “meaningful” entails. The work has to be “real,” meaning that what the young person does is important to someone. I’m not sure this is true at the current job, because nothing terrible seems to happen if your son doesn’t show up. No one depends on him. Another important aspect is that the young person be socialized by adults with good values. It does not seem that the relative is doing this, since he is tolerating irresponsible behavior. </p>

<p>In your place, I would ask the relative to fire your son. Then I would identify another opportunity that would really help him mature. A volunteer position might be better than a paid job, if it entails more meaningful work. Another problem with paid jobs, for a young person living at home, is that they get a taste of unrealistic affluence. Even a minimum wage job can make someone in this situation, where the salary doesn’t have to cover necessities, feel rich.</p>

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<p>Calimom1214 - I read your post and the pain you are feeling just breaks my heart. Please don’t blame yourself or let your husband blame you for your son’s situation. As we all look back there are many things we might have done differently in raising our children, but at that time and place we thought were making the best decision. (and for many of those tough daily decisions you were the only parent home) Your son is now 20 and 100% responsible for his actions. After seeking professional help to rule out any mental or physical conditions, he needs to start owning his days by acknowledging that the decisions made that day were of his own doing. </p>

<p>Hugs and good wishes…</p>

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<p>redbluegoldgreen- what I probably did not express was that we have been going through this for about a year and a half…yes I am very very tired. At 20, he is an adult and no longer a lost 15 or 16 year old.
The question is when do you know you have reached your own threshold? When you have done everything under the sun to no avail? At what point do you throw your hands up and realize no matter what you do, he will engage in the same self destructive behavior.
Re the job, he is an assistant to a web designer, actually enjoys it quite a bit and is given a good amount of responsibility. When he is there, he is really there and very productive, obviously when he is not, it creates a bit of chaos as people are relying on him. He likes the people he works with a great deal, has every reason to wake up and get going in the morning…I just don’t get it.
This is also very trying for my other kids, especially my daughter. If he is sleeping at 2pm and she comes home with a friend, she is understandably embarrassed…everyone knows (her friends) that something is up but she works hard to make up excuses because she is very loyal and very proud. It has taken a toll on all of us no doubt.</p>

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<p>Just this past week a poster referred to a book “Escaping the Endless Adolescence:How we can help our teenagers grow up before they grow old”… I was interested, because our family and friends have kids who seem to be on the permanent education track, no work, just master’s, PHd’s, law school, medical school. How? Loans are given freely and they are adults. One of my son’s is 20 and one is 16, so I thought perhaps this would be a good read- you can read many chapters of the book on amazon. I ended up ordering it, and am finding it extremely helpful. I think it might be a very to the point manual of how your family got here and what steps you may need to start taking. I think it will bring you clarity, it sure did for me. It will help you bring your own values, not societies,into focus on what makes a strong independent adult. Don’t worry, it seems most of us have been as the song goes “killing our kids with kindness” …OK, I added the kids part. :slight_smile: I think your therapy sessions will take on a whole new spin, and you may find you won’t need to go as long! Good luck, and remember, 2 out of 3 ain’t bad! You are a good mom.</p>

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<p>No advice, just hugs. I so fear that in a couple of years I’ll be posting what you are posting. My latest threat is, “be thinking about which branch of the military you’d like to join.”</p>

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<p>Rules are not rules if they are not enforced and if there are no consequences to his not following them. Go over the rules and the consequences. Start charging room and board, and set a time period that if goals have not been met he is going to be out on his own. The cousin that is now his employer MUST KNOW that if the son measure up he has to go. If he just doesn’t go to work, he must loose the job. You son knows he can do what he wants. He has control of all the strings. And as long as you support him financially or otherwise, he likely won’t go and won’t change. </p>

<p>I agree with things like hiding keys. Draw up a contract and have him sign it. then be prepared to follow through with consequences. This can include things like getting therapy, the use of drugs in one of YOUR cars or on the property. Its your home. Take it back.</p>

<p>And hugs. Tough love is, well, tough.</p>

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<p>I agree that he needs to take responsibility for his own life. (You’re taking way too much responsibility and he’s not taking enough!) It’s just hard to do “all of a sudden”…In his mind, he’s still a kid. Taking his sister’s car, sleeping 'til forever. He needs to get some “skin in the game”: he needs to really want this job and really want to live at home.</p>

<p>Sure, this might be depression, but that’s for a therapist to decide. Sure he’s probably self-medicating…or he’s just being a kid and smoking some pot. Should you feel sorry for him? Well, you want what’s right for your son. I get it. But I think you should try to let some other people in his life also take a role.</p>

<p>Your cousin is a prime candidate. He is your son’s boss? Then, he should have a good talking to him about his hours. Will has gotten away with not coming in during regular hours, because…he can.</p>

<p>You also need your husband to talk to him about responsibilities around the house: no he can not take his sister’s car. No, he can not stay up crazy hours. This is your house and if he doesn’t like it, then get an apt.</p>

<p>This isn’t really as tragic as it seems. It’s just that the burden is only on you. That feels very heavy. Create a timetable of certain things you’d like to see happen, such as consider going back to school, getting an apt., getting his own car. You need to know where you stand as part of this.</p>

<p>Sure, what he mostly needs to do is grow up. But the more he can get away with, well, he will.</p>