Three of the most selective private schools on your son’s list – Duke, Penn, and Cornell – openly state on their Web sites that they favor ED applicants. Penn is especially open about saying that it blatantly favors ED kids. I don’t know anything about Dartmouth.
i speak to dad at length about every 2 weeks, so not often. We text or email every day, but logistical things. The other night I called and we spoke for an hour about this. I’m not sure he has worked out his objection. Maybe I should talk to him longer about that to see if it is more than $. (He doesn’t object to Dike, just committing to Duke ED).
S’s aspergers is pronounced in social interactions, rigidity, etc, but mostly to us. He was never officially diagnosed, but his psych says it is obvious now that he is a teen. No school issues, and he has learned how to deal w people. He is a math person. The type who gets a 96 in AP calc, but an 89 in AP History…
The younger one was diagnosed at 5. That was a struggle, but he will be sophomore next year, and is doing better than I expected on HS. He will go to college, but he goes to school only to learn what he wants, and if he doesn’t care, his grade will show it. He does not like math, loves ancient history and video game design. He says he wants to be an earth science teacher, and doesn’t care where he goes to college (though the suburban anti SUNY message has gotten to him. Darn it!)
Sorry, could go on and on…love my little guys!!
So for 2 years we will have 2 in college. And this does induce a bit of sheer panic, but Ive saved, (as has dad) and I can pay quite a bit out of current income. So I try to focus on that when it overwhelms me.
I’m not a big fan of ED, but I see that they accepted 48% of the class last year early. I think if it’s the clear first choice the kid should apply. Ideally enough visits have been done at other schools to be sure that it really is the first choice. I think visits are much more effective when school is in session - my younger son ended up not really liking the schools he saw when there were few kids around (the day before Passover at Brandeis, early Friday morning at Bard, Saturday morning at Georgetown) - I don’t think the lack of visible bodies helped him imagine the schools well, even though in each case we really liked the tour guide. (And Georgetown stayed on the list.)
Has Dad seen Duke, or only Cornell, or some of the other schools on the list?
^only Cornell. I encourage dad last night to plan a PA weekend this summer, so he can see some too. He may feel left out bc he hasn’t been able to go.
Has you son considered Vanderbilt?
has your S ever been away from home, alone, for any length of time? you mention a bit spoiled and a bit spectrum-y. while no doubt he is very bright and has a wonderful future ahead of him, freshman year can be tough on plenty of kids…and if day-to-day living skills are a challenge, it can be a disaster. whether you think he’ll need them or not, you may want to evaluate the quality of disability services and consider that if he needs your support, he will need to be someone accessible to YOU.
In other words, keep your options open and do your due diligence.
just a different perspective.
He has considered Vandy.
He has been away at camp to UT Austin and Princeton.
RPI has an excellent video game design program, as does CMU.
RPI gives pretty darn good merit aid based on test scores.
I agree with the “away from home” part, and note that most colleges, including Duke, have pre-orientation and orientation programs to help students adjust.
As for being “starry-eyed” - what do you think he is starry-eyed about? Duke is a great school. Yes, he might not get in even ED. But if he understands that, why not go for it?
If he is a math guy then make sure he understands the odds at Duke. Once he does, he’ll agree with the need to find safeties and matches. I don’t know that you need to do much else than that unless he just refuses to find those.
The big conversation here has to be about money. Can you really afford Duke and then pay full for the second one. One of my friends was just saying that with two at the SAME private college they were offered about $650 in financial aid. If you or your ex is concerned about the costs, it may make sense to have him look at more affordable options. Does he see grad school or law school in his future? If so, saving now may make sense.
But if you are truly ready and will to be full pay for both kids, then have him apply to Duke ED. If there is any financial concern, have him apply RD to Duke and to some better financial choices.
As to starry eyes, it seems Duke is a great school. Not really any down side, except cost. He could get a very good education at a less expensive school with great internships.
It only makes sense if you and your ex would be willing to contribute to grad school costs. Some parents are not. They say that after college graduation, their financial obligation to their kids is completed. In that case, unless loans are involved (which does not seem to be the case here), there is no advantage to the kid in choosing a less expensive undergrad school.
It might make sense to think about what your family policy is on this issue.
I hear save money for undergraduate so you can help out on graduate school mentioned often on CC. For some kids, there might not be graduate school. So I think it pays to pick the right undergraduate so you don’t have to worry about graduate school, well at least for some kids.
If he is unsure of which school to do ED to (Duke or Penn), does he really want to do ED anywhere? ED is only for those who have a clear first choice, and do not need to compare financial aid offers.
And it makes sense in many cases.
If the kid knows that graduate school is likely and that he might have to take out loans for graduate school, he may want to be sure to avoid undergraduate debt.
And there are families who are willing to contribute to graduate school costs under some circumstances. For example, a young woman I know was offered a full-ride undergraduate scholarship from her safety school. She knew that she would be going on to medical school after college. She and her parents agreed that if she took the full ride, they would give her the money for medical school that they would otherwise have spent on college.
But consider this other situation: In a certain family, the parents told the kids that they were willing to pay for any undergraduate school but that the kids were on their own after graduation and could not expect any money from the parents for graduate school. In this situation, there was no motivation from the kids’ point of view to economize on their undergraduate education (although there may have been a motivation from the parents’ point of view).
@twoinanddone - Please accept my sincere apologies for using the phrase “broken home” - I had no intention of offending anyone. On the contrary, I was trying to applaud OP for successfully avoiding many of the all-too-common, but not universal, pitfalls and challenges that many divorced parents face. There are plenty of threads here on CC from these kinds of families about these pitfalls and challenges.
Having sat through a number of admissions “general information” sessions, I have heard more than a few questions from parents and potential applicants who come from non-traditional families. Thankfully, the admissions officers generally are able to work with these families to help guide them through this process. I recall one response at a session where the admin officer stated that the application and decision process for students is hard enough for anyone - but it gets even more complex for students from divorced families. Then he went into the “here’s what you need to know” spiel.
@HRSMom - you said it well that “not all divorced dads are deadbeats, and not all divorced moms are bloodsuckers.” You and Dad have put your children’s needs first, and they are better off for it. I wish more children of divorced parents had it as good as your kids.
Part of your success, and your children’s success by them following the examples you both set - is probably due to your recognition that you are not always right. Your son has done well in school so far, and even though it will be “pulling teeth” to get him to get everything in line by your 11/1 deadline, he very likely will understand you are not requiring this to be neurotic. You have given him the example to ask for help, to get information to make good decisions.
In your son’s situation, applying ED somewhere probably makes a lot of sense. He is right that it makes sense to apply ED if it improves his chance at admission. You are right to dismiss some of the difference in percentage as being attributable to legacies and athletes. But another thing to consider is that when schools make their acceptance decisions, they are looking for spaces to fill - they may need school paper editors, tuba players, theater majors, kids from a given geography, etc. If they have filled these spots from the ED list, it makes it harder for similarly competitive kids who come along later and apply RD. Plus, the ED kids tend to be more organized (they have to be, to get their stuff together early) and they tend to have higher scores/grades than RD applicants - which makes them perhaps a bit more competitive. Since the ED process is restrictive, there is clearly more demonstrated interest among these students, which protects the school’s yield.
The other thing that clouds the numbers is that the kids who apply ED, and get deferred, become part of the RD numbers. Suppose a school has 5000 kids apply ED, and they take 20% of them, or 1000, and defer the other 4000. They have another 10000 kids apply RD, and they take another 1000 kids. They report their RD percentage as 1000/14,000 or 7.14% Even if the second 1000 kids accepted all or mostly came from those deferred from the ED round.
For those students who are lucky enough to be able to afford the risk of binding ED before financial aid or merit aid is known - ED is a great option. But the more selective schools don’t wish to publicize the fact that they are eliminating a certain demographic from the ED process - the kids who cannot take that financial risk.
Most, if not all, ED schools also have an early priority deadline for filing some kind of financial aid estimate. Profile schools have an early priority Profile filing. Other schools have their own forms. Regardless…if accepted ED (and you have completed the required early financial aid forms), you receive a financial aid award either with or very short,y after the ED acceptance. These schools do not expect you to make a decision about a ED acceptance without your financial aid estimate.
And the one reason you can decline the ED acceptance is due to insufficient financial aid.
Of course, this family has the income to support a full pay student at Duke, so there would be no evidence of insufficient need based aid!
If he is 50-50 between Penn and Duke, but questions whether he would get into either RD, he should pick one if he would be equally fine with either. Penn is a lot closer, and having gone there many years ago, they were already very good about accommodations (there were students getting double time on exams, and I had made up exams after I was sick and missed them).
My son wanted ED, and it was a toss up between two schools he would be equally happy with. He and I agreed that he should apply to one ED because he would have less chance with RD, no matter which school.
Yeah, I guess the applicant should be 100% in love with their ED school, but they also should be realistic if their grades are not outstanding (which my son’s weren’t).
You don’t have to be 100% in love with your ED school. You just have to be 100% willing to go there.
Sometimes, a student who would be equally willing to go to two or more schools (for example, both Duke and Penn) will apply to one of them ED to increase the chances of admission. I see nothing wrong with this. This is college, not marriage.
OP I applaud your attitude and your relationship with your ex. I wish I had the same.
My friend’s DD was deciding between Penn or Georgetown ED. I knew UPenn favored ED, gave more $$$, and there was legacy. She is grateful, though hard to give up G-town.