Note the sample plans for “Graduating in 3 years” and “Graduating in 3.5 years.”
It is even easier to graduate in 3 years if a student comes in with AP credit. Students can use AP credit to pass out of Math 1A, Math 1B, Physics 7A, one Reading & Composition, the Natural Science requirement, the STEM elective requirement, and 2 of the Humanities & Social Sciences breadths.
OP can we see COA? Do I understand this correctly?
Twin 1 from cheapest to most expensive…
UMD-free
Upenn-30k
RICE -35K
GaTech-46k
5 CA ones over 50K
Is this accurate?
TWIN2
UPen -30k
2 GaTech 46k
UCs are 50+
If twin 1 will not go to Upen , Twin 2 will end up with higher tuition…
You have 60k total (30 from you and 30 from ex) .
Are there any other options?
Sounds to me both need to go to Upen…
If possible ask FA at Upen to guarantee FA at the same level for all 4 years…They may do it.
Explain situation. Ex husband… twins…
We had a bit different situation. 3 kids in college for 2 years. Not Upen but another “lesser” private guaranteed us fixed FA for all 4 years in writing.
You absolutely cannot send Twin 1 to UMD for free so Twin2 would go for Upen. That will destroy your family and your kids relationships.
UCs in state are not over $50K (for next year). The official cost of attendance is $48K (on campus) at Berkeley, but that includes ~$4K on health insurance that can likely be waived, and personal expenses that can be less (or more). Still not $30K/each, but a bit closer.
Of course, there’s always more including personal, books, expenses, etc.
UCLA for 24/25
Tuition $15,154
Living $18,369
UCSB for 24/25 is not published. This is for 23/24.
Tuition/Fees $15,666
Living $18,276
UCSD
Tuition - $16,980
Living - $18,522
So there’s insurance (hopefully you have), travel, personal - even if they don’t keep up with the joneses they’ll spend $$, and then living off campus - how do those costs compare?
Don’t know what Regents bring - but given the info provided, it’s not going to work.
Do you care if the kids stick together or split up? It looks like it is coming down to having twin #2 close to you (UPenn) or close to Dad (UCLA). You’ve mentioned how twin #1 feels about schools. How does twin #2 feel about their options?
Does anyone know how Penn’s job and grad school opportunities are in engineering compared to Berkeley? Overall Penn’s name is more prestigious, but I get the sense Berkeley engineering is better. My son is in a somewhat similar boat, but we don’t have financial restrictions - not that money isn’t important and it is a consideration but we can afford Penn and he’s also considering Yale. Our concern is that while Penn/Yale might have better names, Berkley engineering is more respected and he will have better job and research opportunities from Cal and Cal research is more cutting edge. He’s not considering CS but is considering other engineering disciplines.
To the OP’s question, we have visited both Cal and Penn and here are some of our observations. One concern for Cal is classes are harder to come by. It is a big school, but friends are easy to make in engineering. The only Gaza related protest we saw on the day we visited (not admitted students day) was at the main gate and there was a smaller counter protest there at the same time. Cal also is known to have more of a grinder mentality for students - confirmed by both our tour guide and friends there. One engineering student told us that it’s not unusual for engineering students to burn out at some point during their time there - at least that was true for chemical engineering. By almost all accounts Cal’s dorm food is terrible - and you’re only guaranteed 1 year of housing (unless you are Regents). I’d say safety is more of a concern at Cal than it is at Penn. Our tour guide and another official person at Cal downplayed this, but a freshman friend of my son confirmed that is a concern to students. A good friend who lives nearby told us that the media coverage of Bay Area and Berkeley crime is overblown – except for maybe Oakland which is a stones throw away from Berkeley.
Cal’s Intro to CS class had 1500 students. During our tour it seems like many non-CS students want to get into CS and peppered the guide and others with questions about how to transfer into CS or do a minor.
Penn is much more preprofessional. During a q&a with students and an engineering advisor, about 1/3 of the questions asked by students was focused on how to take classes at Wharton or get some Wharton affiliated degree (eg, their MT program, minor, double major, etc). 40% of Penn engineering students end up in consulting or finance. This was a turnoff for my son who actually wants to do engineering and we were concerned that the quality of engineering at Penn isn’t as strong. We got the impression that getting classes would be much easier than at Cal, and many students are able complete double majors or get a masters in 4 years. The engineering dept at Penn is certainly a lot smaller than at Berkeley - which can be good and bad. We definitely got the sense that it would be easier to get research opportunities at Penn then Berkeley and you would get to know your professors better – which matters if you want to apply for grad schools later. Penn isn’t in the greatest neighborhood but we felt more safe there than at Berkeley.
I have a non-engineering freshman son at UCLA who loves it there. He has many engineering, friends who really like it there as well and don’t seem too stressed out – but they are only freshman so we’re not sure how it translates later. A couple attended very competitive Bay Area high schools and were also admitted to Cal but stated they wanted to go to UCLA because it was less of a pressure cooker and they didn’t want a repeat of high school. We get the sense engineering at UCLA is very good, but not as reputable as Cal. Freshman mostly live in triples and it seems a majority live in dorms during their sophomore year. Most students live in apartments for their junior and senior years even though housing is guaranteed for all 4 years.
You can look up job placement and grad school placement on Penn’s website.
Engineering at Penn is incredible. The Engineering Dean at Parents weekend shared many stats including that school of Engineering graduates have the highest starting salaries of all undergraduate schools at Penn (ie, higher than Wharton too). It is not all about salary of course: he discussed latest/greatest technology graduates are involved with, etc. There is a lot of focus on interdisciplinary education and students take classes in all areas; many get minors elsewhere in the university. Any student who wants to can do research easily(most do it at some point), there is funding available across Penn for undergraduate endeavors, and Engineering is relatively small(400-450 incoming Seas each year) making most classes small.
This has been stated before. I have to disagree. My CA college kid was expected to work to pay for personal expenses, and books…and she did. Her off campus housing was the same cost as on campus housing…and she worked on campus during the summers so it was actually great. Kids can learn responsible spending and budgeting in college.
I’m a little confused… @Anna75 what IS your annual college budget for each of these soon to be college students?
I think you and the other parent need to discuss this. For all we know, that parent will be very willing to pay for Penn even if it costs more. Find out…and if the answer is yes, that will help your decision process.
I’m a college professor and I personally would not make any decisions based on the current political climate. Things can change on a dime. Think about what is the best fit.
My kids spend more. Some join Greek. Some move off campus where it costs more - my daughter’s rental house will cost more than the school stated room and board - and mine is just room - and by a few thousand. Some take trips.
Your child worked - and you had them use their money.
That’s good for your family.
We don’t know what OP will do - so OP has to take all these types of thing into account.
OP already noted Penn is loaded with wealth and is fearful her kids will want to keep up with the joneses - and with peer pressure it’s very possible.
There are situations as you’ve stated where you can cut costs.
But equally there are situations where costs are more.
And while you chose to have your child spend, we don’t know what other families do. In my family, I let them save and I spend.
But again, each family is different and this one needs to look at the various nuances as they’ll relate to them, not you or me.
The new FAFSA formula cancelled the cut for 2 kids in college at the same time (since FAFSA aid doesnt meet need it didn’t matter all that much anyway) but CSS-based meet need colleges said they would now factor “2 kids at the same time” into their formula and there’s usually a.“bonus” for twins attending the same university. So that explains Penn at 30k.
Btw, Penn Engineering is solid and offers lots of opportunities. I wouldn’t worry about professional outcomes.
Not everyone wants the Eecs intensity, for instance - it doesn’t mean they can’t find well paying jobs.
Where would Twin 2 go if Twin1 took the UC offer (since Penn would be off the table)?
Since both twins want to attend Penn and it’s affordable, is the only hesitation your worry UCB/UCLA would offer a better curriculum with better outcomes ?
I agree. This may be a bigger number than your ex husband’s change in income.
My second was admitted to a T10 school. We were surprised at the aid that was offered. It didn’t match the NPC, or what other schools had offered. The aid made that university a bit of a stretch, but actually somewhat affordable. Ends up that the aid was because my oldest was still in college. Once my oldest graduated (in 6 mos) the aid would go away completely and we would be 100% full pay. I think we called three times to confirm that was the case before my student turned down the school.
I think the issue is that it is affordable this year but not necessarily for years 2-4, unless the OP’s ex agrees to use his new, higher income to pay for Penn’s higher costs in years 2-4, which are anticipated to be higher than year 1 because of less financial aid in years 2-4 because of his higher income starting in 2023.
UPenn seems like the best fit/choice if the financial situation remains stable, but if there’s uncertainty about that then UMD would be the safe choice for twin 1. Aside from the financial benefit, B/K scholars get a lot of perks and he will be surrounded by very high achieving kids.
Would still go to UPenn I think. Cost may go up a bit with just one kid attending (@Anna75, have they indicated what the cost would be?) but they would have to deal with less cost variance (i.e. for one twin vs two).
For example if they say twin 2 alone would have to pay $45k instead of $30k each with the sibling discount, that’s a smaller total than $60k with both twins at UPenn.