We are British natives (now US citizens) so the American college system and application process has been completely new and an eye-opener to us all from the start. Our DD is our only child - poor girl. I’ve poured my heart and soul into this process - maybe a little too much, it seems.
She’s a bright girl, 33 Composite ACT - wants to major in English (which is good as she got a 36 on the ACT in English and a 35 in Reading - not as hot on math or science) 4.3 Weighted GPA, all Honors classes, 9 APs, but pretty lacklustre ECs, if I’m honest. (I call it Britsh reservedness, but you could also call it apathy, I suppose 
Now I’m discovering how important those ECs must have been! She did write for a local magazine as a monthly contributor and she’s had several part-time jobs, including working as a legal proofreader through my ex-employer, but she’s never been an athlete, a musician, or a team debater. She’s joined various clubs, but never captained any.
She did write a strong common app essay, but - to my chagrin - chose to write about her struggles with body dysmorphia and depression. Those issues directly correlated with her hesitance in particpating somewhat, but she has come a long way in addressing that more recently. However, I guess instead of showing strength through vulnerability, she actually drew attention to her flaws and possible impact on future college life? Bad decision.
I tried not to helicopter-mum, and once we’d visited all the schools she was going to apply to throughout the year prior, I left it to her to tackle the application process (I WISH she’d let me pre-read before she’d hit SUBMIT) and then sat back and waited.
Long story short (not really, though, is it? Sorry!) she’s facing 5 rejections, waitlists at University of Richmond (her original top choice) and Emory, and only two acceptances at safeties - those being Xavier University in Cincinnati and the in-state flagship UT-Knoxville here in Tennessee.
I’m not one to dwell on what could have been (much) but I’d be interested in opinions on Xavier. They’re offering a scholarship worth half the tuition, plus she has a friend who attends there already. She thought the campus visit was fairly good - but didn’t fall in love with it like she did with Richmond.
She’s accepted the wait list spots at Richmond and Emory but is getting ready to commit to Xavier - or at least pay the deposit. We’re fortunate in that we could afford to cover her tuition if she somehow made it off the waitlist at Richmond or Emory, but when you have a child that’s fairly apathetic to the whole process, should we just accept what path has been presented and get on board with Xavier?
We’ve reached out to the regional admissions counselor at Richmond and expressed continued interest - and even pledged to pay full tuition - and were told that DD should reach out again near the end of April with updated info - she’s just had a poem published in a national high school competition booklet and just received an award at her high school for her outstanding achievement in AP English Literature class - so she’ll most certainly do that.
But are we - CORRECTION - am I just clutching at stars? I read all these posts on exemplary students being rejected by the dozens. Is the lack of ECs going to doom her waitlist chances? Is Xavier the very best she can expect, even if she took a gap year and tried again next year? Would love to hear some perspectives on that and also some insider insight on Xavier if anyone has any.
Much appreciated. Thanks to all.
Some schools have enormous waitlists but in the end take very few off the lists. Other start taking off the waitlist almost immediately because they don’t want to issue more acceptances than they can handle.
I think Xavier is a great school. I have two kids who would take the sure thing. They don’t like the waiting and uncertainty, so would just go for it. They also like scholarships and just being able to sort of be proud that they earned one.
One of my kids was admitted off of a waitlist to Vanderbilt. If she really wants Richmond, she should periodically feed the admissions counselor more info, like mid semester grades, any other awards, etc. to keep up the buzz about her interest. I would not wait until late April. The trick is to not become a complete pest, though. In the mean time, she should visit Xavier (and the two others) if they have an admitted students day and perhaps she will get more enthusiastic.
Completely agree that she should show the love to Richmond and let them know that she will definitely attend if admitted.
If your D is excited about her two choices and they are affordable, she should choose one of them. There are other options though. She can take a gap year and reapply, which might give her a chance to do some really productive things and craft a more polished application. On May 1, NACAC will publish a list of colleges which haven’t met their yield for whatever reason. Many of the colleges on that list will be excellent. Last year there were some great choices.
My D was taken off two waitlists and now attends one of those colleges. She emailed admissions at her top choice, I think three times in total, to make clear that she would attend if accepted. She asked the school to send updated grades. She didn’t write long emails, but they were sincere. She sent one email right after decisions came out, then updated around mid April, then I think sent a final email after May 1. She was notified at the very end of June. Meanwhile, yes, deposit at her top choice.
Is Xavier the best she can do? No doubt she could thrive and do well if she attends there, but given her stats, I don’t think she was being unreasonable with her list (what we know of it, anyway). I suspect her essay was her downfall. Many posters on CC, myself included, think it’s a bad idea for students to write about anything to do with mental health. It’s been said many times before, but colleges are businesses. Colleges know that students with mental health issues are more likely to fare poorly. A student who leaves school is lost revenue. They might have been able to admit a student who would not struggle and not mean lost revenue. The first year of college can be very stressful and colleges know this.
As far as a more suitable essay, there’s a ton of good advice on the essay forum. In general, the most important thing an essay does is give an insight into the student’s personality. Is her personality body dysmorphia and depression? The essay is about giving the college a reason to say yes, and to consider how a student will add to their campus. Students can almost always find a positive aspect of their personality that they would like a college to know about them.
Have you thought about applying to the U.K.? As an international applicant you can apply after the normal deadlines because you aren’t subject to the domestic U.K. quotas. And you can do that in parallel with accepting a US school admission offer, assuming you are prepared to lose the deposit. You would need to reach out to the individual universities to find out if they have space.
She will bloom at Xavier or UT-Knoxville. Was she accepted in to the honors program?
Thank you to all those who replied! Isn’t this site awesome?
We are indeed going to visit Xavier next weekend when they have the admitted students day, so that might clarify things a bit. We actually did visit it last year on our college search tour, and it was underwhelming compared to Richmond, but it wasn’t a “definite no-go.” It was small but pretty, we thought, and certainly a “safety” if all else failed… and it looks like all else is failing!
My biggest concern, I guess, is that because she has a friend who will be a sophomore at Xavier if and when DD attends, that’s kind of swaying her decision somewhat. Given DD’s past self-esteem issues, having a friend there will most definitely be a benefit, but in the long-run, is that what we should be concentrating on?
She is smart but she is a “blender.” She’ll match herself like a chameleon to the people that surround her so as not to stand out. Her pretty British accent has all but disappeared outside of the home. She’s been challenged at high school with APs and Honors classes and her friends have all been academically similar to her, so she’s done fine. I guess I wonder if academically Xavier is going to push her. I don’t in any way want to disparage Xavier because I really don’t know that much about it, and what I have read on Niche, etc., looks pretty decent. (And, yes, Bopper, she’s applied to the Honors Program there but won’t find out, I guess, for a while if accepted to it.) But - again, I’m trying desperately not to be a helicopter-mum! - should we be trying to coax her in the Richmond direction?
My husband is very much of the mindset of if she’s passionate enough about it, she can go anywhere that’ll accept her and we’ll foot the costs. But passion is not her strongpoint. She’s a settler. Richmond and Emory put her on a waitlist, even if they accept her later, they won’t offer any financial aid now (which doesn’t concern me but admirably concerns her!) and Xavier accepted her from the beginning and is offering $20,000 in scholarship funds. To her that’s a sign that Xavier must be in her future. (Oh, to have an ambitious child… :()
Lindagaf, thank you for the NACAC info. I was completely unaware of this. I just wonder if even looking at more schools is going to be pointless now as we’ve come to the realization that her mindset is such that she gets what she deserves and Xavier is what she deserves. And you are completely right, body dysmorphia and depression isn’t her personality but, sadly, they’ve definitely shaped it. To say she’s an introvert would be an understatement! She’s a writer, an analyst, she’s quiet, thoughtful and studious, all good traits, but unfortunately not outgoing enough to propel her far in this competitive college application process. I do so wish I hadn’t taken the hands-off approach when it came to the actual common app application. I’d have red-flagged immediately the problems writing about thinking disorders could cause, no matter how eloquently she wrote about them!
Twoin18, you know, we haven’t really considered her going back to the UK to study. I guess knowing her like I do and knowing that college is scary enough without mental struggles lurking in the rearview, having her in the US at least for undergrad, till we know how she fares, is probably going to be better for her… and me! Moving her across the world at age 7 may have played a detrimenal-enough role in her life before, so another across-the-world upheaval may not be beneficial.
Again, thanks to all for your wonderful insight. It’s so useful to me right now.
I’d suggest you read through this if you haven’t already. https://admissions.richmond.edu/forms/pdf/waitlist-brochure-2018.pdf
I don’t think you should be pushing your D towards Richmond. The odds are high she won’t get in and if she doesn’t she’d just be more disappointed. However, to me, based on the brochure, all she has to do right now is confirm her place on the waitlist. The letter re continued level of interest, updated recommendations and accomplishments, grades, etc. can wait until about May 1.
So, confirm that she wants to stay on the waitlist. Go to accepted students day at Xavier, see how SHE feels come May 1 and then decide at that point whether SHE thinks that Richmond would make her happier than Xavier. There’s no reason to decide that now–at least based on the brochure.
Just my opinion, but a gap year (or even several) may be best to mature and work through the mental struggles.
Life isn’t a race and it may be best to start off college/uni with everything else taken care of as it will present it’s own challenges.
And yes, even though they are far away, the UK unis may be a good option. Being closer may give you the feeling of safety, but unless she lives in the same city, once college starts, she won’t have time to meet except for breaks anyway.
I’m concerned about that mindset, that she gets what she deserves in Xavier. Xavier is a fine school. So many kids don’t get good advising in the college process. It might not be fair that she was “doomed” by a poor essay (if indeed that was the case,) but had she had the advantage of really good counseling, she might not have made that mistake. She might be paying the deposit at Richmond right now, instead. It’s fair to say that a lot of kids don’t present their best applications because they don’t realize they need to.
My daughter sounds a LOT like your daughter, in terms of personality. She did very well in college admissions. She had a lot of good advising. If she hadn’t, she too might have ended up at her safety. Her safeties were great and she would have attended, but they were not her top choices. However, her list was very carefully thought out and she knew a lot about each school she applied to, so she was aware that attending a safety wouldn’t be 'settling." She probably submitted the best apps she could to all of her schools, and accordingly, was accepted to a bunch of schools. I really think if your daughter were to do it all over again with better advice, she would have had more choices.
Pay the deposit, and look at the NACAC list when it comes out. You can come back to CC and ask people for advice about which colleges on the list are really good. She can then choose to apply to one of those schools. Yes, she will lose the deposit at Xavier, but it might just be worth it if she can attend a college which might be better for her.
Jonri, I made sure I’d read through the waitlist info from Richmond when we found out she’d been waitlisted. And as I read that sentence back, I’m painfully aware how it sounds. I made sure “I” read through the waitlist info… I do wonder if I’m more invested in this process that DD is. Is that normal? I’ve had to remind her to check her portals as results were coming in. She seems so blase about the whole thing. You’re 100% right about how SHE feels once a final decision has to be made, not me. But as a mum, we do want the best for our kids, but when our kids are apathetic and tend to choose the path of least resistance, is it wrong to step in and intervene? I hate to be that overbearing parent. Obviously her happiness is most important, but had I had more input on the common app process, her original preference (U Richmond) may well have been an acceptance rather than a waitlist. As it is, she’s made the cardinal mistakes and is now accepting the consequences.
And again, Lindagaf, you are so very right. A good guidance counselor would have been beneficial. We didn’t even learn the name of ours until the beginning of senior year and I have to say her input was minimal. I think DD met her once (after we’d done our own college roadtrip tours across the country, including the states of N Carolina, Virginia, D.C., Pennsylvania, Ohio, Illinois, Missouri, and Georgia ) and she basically looked at DD’s list of preferred schools and said “Go for it.” That was it. Not having done this process myself before, either in the UK or here in the US, I wasn’t sure what to expect. I figured it was pretty much on us to do.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. Can we get a redo? I did speak to her about a gap year but she says she just wants to get on with it. As you can tell from my posts, she doesn’t get overly excited about much, college especially. She’s going because it’s good for her in the long-run. It could well also be a really good experience for her, degree aside, but to her it’s a necessity to get through and the sooner the better. Prolonging it for another year doesn’t appeal.
snookypie100, There was no parent for obsessed with college admissions that I was. So I understand. The problem though is that it’s too late now. Your D–or you–doesn’t get a “do over” or a “Mulligan” UNLESS she takes a gap year and it really sounds as if pushing that idea could backfire a LOT.
So, go look at Xavier. See how she–and you-feel about it AFTER you visit it. Do not compare it to Richmond. Just see how she feels about Xavier.
It’s understandable that you’re second guessing some things. Normal parent stuff. But if your daughter has an acceptance to a good school that you can afford and that she likes… let it go.
No need to worry about what if or a do over. She’s OK and she’ll be OK. Work on getting yourself comfy and OK with this so you don’t unknowingly transfer your stress and guilt to her.
She sounds like a level, steady, great kid. Enjoy her, she won’t be at home much longer.
Thank you for that, milee30. I know you’re right. I guess the point of my original post was reassurance that Xavier was a good school. I didn’t know that much about it. It’s sounding like it’s got a generally good reputation. Above all I want her to be happy.
I am, indeed, enjoying every moment while I still have her. We’re going prom dress shopping in a minute - mum and daughter time. Can’t wait!
Thank you.
My take is that if she is happy with Xavier after the accepted student visit, then make the deposit. She can stay on the waitlists and see what happens.
There’s lots of good advice on this thread, but I think the OP is writing off Tennessee much too quickly. I have plenty of respect for Xavier and the education it offers, but I strongly suspect that the OP’s daughter is more likely to find a community of peers at Tennessee than she is at Xavier, and also more likely to be excited and challenged by the English literature program.
Here are the stark facts:
The OP’s daughter is interested in English literature, and has an English ACT score of 36. At Xavier, 20% of the enrolled class who reported ACT scores had English ACT scores of 30-36, but less than 5% of those reporting SAT scores had an EBR SAT score over 700. Projected over the entire Xavier entering class of about 1,200, that’s about 58 kids with current reading skills anywhere near hers, and only 20% of the class (~240) even in the same ballpark.
At Tennessee, by contrast, almost 40% of ACT score reporters had an English score of 30 or higher, and over 12% of SAT score reporters had 700 or higher EBR scores. And the entering class there is four times the size of Xavier’s – 4,900. That projects to over 600 kids per class with reading skills at the SAT 700 level or higher, and over 1,900 per class at the ACT 30 level or higher.
Last year, Xavier awarded a grand total of 8 bachelor’s degrees to people whose primary major was English literature, and only 23 bachelor’s degrees to people whose primary major was any kind of literary studies, including English lit. That’s really a tiny number! Plus 2 MAs. And what are the chances that all 8 majors were among the ~58 students with high-level reading ability?
Tennessee: Awarded 117 degrees to primary English literature majors, plus 22 MAs and 11 PhDs., and 57 BAs to other literary studies majors. English majors represented a percentage of the class that was three times higher at Tennessee than at Xavier, and 15 times higher in absolute numbers. Not all of them would be among the top reading-testers, but there’s at least a decent chance that some would.
The oversupply of qualified, even superqualified English professors is such that there are high-quality faculty members everywhere. I took a glance at both English departments. As you would expect, Tennessee’s is much bigger. However, it’s also the case that the credentials of the young faculty are a lot more impressive. About half of the Xavier young faculty comes from just one program, Indiana University (which is traditionally strong), plus two from Wayne State, and singletons from other non-first-tier midwestern universities. At Tennessee, the first four names I clicked had PhDs from Princeton, Northwestern, Chicago, and Stanford. The weakest of those is probably more or less equivalent to the strongest program any of the Xavier faculty come from, and the Indiana monoculture at Xavier would not generally be considered a good thing.
I understand kids may like the idea of “small” and “private” and “farther from home,” and “pretty,” but to some extent you have to look under the hood. Tennessee, as a state flagship, has a lot of smart kids and a very strong faculty. It has a lot of everything, I’m sure, some of it not as impressive. Xavier does a great job with its mission, but it’s not really competitive for the top students in its area, who have a lot of other choices, and I don’t think providing a first-rate English literature department is central to its mission.
OP, your D deserves better.
Being full pay parents, I would think that depositing at one of the schools (I also think @JHS makes a good case for Tennesee) and then applying to a school with stronger students from the NACAC list would lead to a better outcome.
Or you can try to contact some of the usual suspects (good LACs that sometimes end up on the list) and see if they will take a late application which they will if they expect to be on that list.
Some usual suspects are
Beloit
Hendrix
Lawrence
Whitman
Whitman is a GREAT school! It’s fan base here on CC is legendary:-)
Wow, JHS, I’m super impressed at the stats you researched. I wouldn’t have known you could even get into the nitty gritty of the subject areas like that. Shame on me. To be honest, we applied to UTK just because everyone round here seems to. We’ve never even visited it. I think my DD is put off by the sheer size of it (and the fact that the majority of her current grade seem to be going there!)
I’m so glad you guys have opened my eyes to so much of this. I never even knew of the NACAC list option and I’d completely overlooked UTK.
Currently DD is weary of talking about college. She just seems to want to pin it down to Xavier right now (because of her friend being there more than anything, I think) and is reluctant to explore other options.
I, again, come back to the “how much should we as parents intervene”? I’m all for looking at additional options, but if she doesn’t have the will to, I’m conflicted in leaving it at that or pushing for more. My husband says she’s just looking for the path of least resistance. I agree. We’ve told her we’d provide any support, financial or otherwise, to give her the best, but apathy is strong in this one.
Again, thank you all so much for your help in this.