Help. First Time College Process (ex-Brit) - Trying Not to Meddle!

Parents Forum
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When she says “Why pay full price for Richmond when Xavier are offering half the costs?”

Answer is: Because the English programs there is very limited and you will be bored in no time.

But setting aside Richmond (which I would totally pursue for WL BU sending 3 emails - now, mid April and May 1st) you need to open her mind up to UTK.

And no, you are not over pushing. This is a big investment for all of you. I would put all the cards on the table and explain that (big investment, important part of her life, pros and cons of English department at both schools and how you want her to be happy where she ends up). Write down all the facts presented regarding the English program and ask some questions at the revisit.

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@chercheur LOL. Spoiled, you say? :slight_smile: Yeah, I guess. It’s hard not to spoil your only child. But I will say one thing for her, she’s never been a demander. She never asks for things… at least not outright. She’s pretty savvy about placing thoughts in your head when you’re not looking! My husband says I spoil her. I prefer to call it mothering her. I hope it’s not SMOTHERING her, though! I did suggest visiting UTK to her. I think she’s one-track minded. Right now she’s solely focused on Xavier… until we’ve visited it this weekend. After that she may come around to other options. You guys are all suggesting such wonderful things that I want her to do and be interested in, but how do you get them to be interested when they’re just… not? We just got back this evening from her high school academic awards night where she’d received most outstanding student in AP English IV. You’d think she’d be pumped, but no the trusty indifference shines again!

@MYOS1634 I seem to be using this excuse a lot, but we’re English and our American geography is woefully lacking. I’m not sure where she got the idea California and the West was going to be too hot, especially when she was okay with visiting Emory in Atlanta! I grew weary enough trying to plan the three long-distance trips we did. The idea of taking a West Coast trip just didn’t seem worth the fight. And sadly neither U Iowa or Denison appeared (as far as I can remember) on our Top Colleges for English search. I do so wish I’d found this site last year.

@kidzncatz Thank you for your input on Xavier. It genuinely helps to hear positives about it, especially as I feel like right now I’m losing the battle to keep her options open for anywhere else. All these wonderful suggestions you guys are coming up with - and if it were me, I’d be all over it. I just seem to have lost the ability to get the importance of this through to DD without her retreating to the de facto “it’s my choice, not yours” response. And I’m very wary of being, as you say, the mother of the daughter who wished her mother would just accept her for the way she is.

@suzyQ7 I like your logic, and I’ll try that response. I’ll let you know what gem she comes up with in reply! I am still intending to push her to reach out to Richmond for the waitlist. I took photos of the AP English outstanding achievement award she received today and also the poem she’s had published in the National High School Competition booklet we just received, and I’ll encourage her to send those in as evidence of continued excellence worth considering. I’m just dreading the conversation if she gets the phonecall of acceptance off the waitlist at Richmond and says “But I’m happy with Xavier now.” That one won’t be pretty.

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Just want to say I totally get where you are coming from. Hopefully you both will end up loving one of the 2 schools she was accepted to. Just wanted to add, a close friend got accepted off the Richmond waitlist 2 years ago. The school could not have been better about welcoming her and making her feel wanted. They also provided her with whatever aid she would have gotten had she been accepted in regular decision (not sure if it was merit or need based). I know she probably contacted them about 3 times with letters of interest. Good luck!

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I feel your anxiety and good intentions, smooky, and believe me, my opinion is expressed with nothing but kindness … but I want to hug your daughter right now. I totally get that she’s a very different person from you and that you don’t understand her choices – I have a son that I’ve had similar frustrations about. And I’m a super-busy overachiever myself, like I’m pretty sure you are, so I get that part of things, too. But you are just radiating disappointment with your daughter as a person in this thread. And that’s so sad to me.

From your own descriptions, you’ve got a kid who is smart, talented, kind, thoughtful, academically successful, has multiple friends, works part-time several days/week, is frugal and practical, doesn’t ask for much from her parents, is easy-going and able to fit in with (and relate to) many different types of people. She sounds AMAZING! Yet you’re taking those very traits that are so wonderful – so valuable yet all too rare in society – and using them to describe her as lazy, unmotivated, and someone who “didn’t deserve” to get into a better college.

She wrote an essay that had deep personal meaning to her … and you told her it was a terrible topic that got her rejected from her top choices. She has a good friend who is happy at a college she’s interested in … and you’re telling her the kids there are beneath her. She’s trying to develop confidence and self esteem by making her own decisions … and you’re undermining her by making it clear those decisions aren’t anywhere near good enough.

I think all the “what if’ing” and FOMO-encouragement in this thread are doing you both a great disservice. She’s happy with Xavier. (And maybe she will be with UT once she visits; it does sound like a pretty cool program.) That happiness means she’s showing passion for Xavier and going off to college in the fall to start the next chapter of her life. Maybe she doesn’t express it the way you or I would, but she is showing it in her own way. She’s always been like this, right? Low-key and chill in expressing her emotions? This is who she is. This is probably who she will always be. If she’s working to be happy with herself, shouldn’t you try to be, too?

Let her pick her college. Let her get excited about it. Be happy that she’s happy. If the call comes from the WL, let her make that decision, too. If she looks back from adulthood and wishes she’d made another decision, that’s educational and character-building, too. Be her biggest cheerleader and most steadfast support system. I think she’s going to blossom in college, no matter where she ends up, and keep growing into a really fabulous adult. :slight_smile:

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@kab2kab You expressed so eloquently exactly what I was thinking.

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I disagree with the above. She’s not picking her college, she’s settling for “whatever”.

“and using them to describe her as lazy, unmotivated, and someone who “didn’t deserve” to get into a better college.”

The daughter of the one saying she doesn’t deserve to go to a better college!

This post was unfair to the mom @kab2. The majority of parents on this board are way more pushy with their kids in regards to college than the OP.

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Here’s what may be a constructive suggestion: When you go to Xavier, try to find an English professor there, and ask for an honest assessment of Xavier vs. Tennessee for a student of English literature.

If I’m right – and I may not be – and if you listen carefully to the words and the music, he or she will be singing “Rocky Top.”

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Suzy, I truly wasn’t trying to be unkind. This parenting thing is HARD, and we’re all just trying to muddle through the best we can and support our kids. But I am quoting from the mom, not the daughter. In post #34, mom says “I realize more than ever she didn’t really deserve to be accepted into any of the colleges she applied to.” In post #29, mom says “She’s undoubtedly lazy” and “I do so very much wish mine had an ounce of ambition and drive!”

It’s hard when you’re an extroverted, high-energy parent to know what to do with an introverted, low-energy kid. And if the daughter is unhappy with her college choices and wants mom to help her look at the May 1 list or push hard on a WL, more power to her! But that’s not what I’m getting from mom’s posts. Her daughter seems fine with who she is. It’s mom who is comparing her to other kids and thinks she’s coming up short. But to me, her daughter sounds like a lovely, grounded person, who just needs time to mature and find her own way in life. It might not be mom’s path … but it will be her own path, and that’s worth encouraging.

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@kab2kab I totally get where you’re coming from. Your post struck a nerve with me (in a good but uncomfortable way.) If I read back my posts in totality, I hadn’t realized how negative I sounded. I’ve been trying to strike the balance between being mindful and cognizant of her mental struggles but at the same time gently nudging her to want more for herself and achieve what she’s fully capable of. I remind her daily how exceptional she is but generally get pushback in the form of “You’re just saying that coz you’re my mum.” As @suzyQ7 said, I really don’t want her to just “settle,” which is clearly what she’s doing right now. I know she is. And I guess lazy is a subjective term. In the bigger picture, I meant that in terms of not getting out and participating in the community in any way, shape or form; hence not really deserving the opportunities at higher ranked colleges because she hasn’t shown willingness to get involved. That was what I meant but inartfully said!

While you’re right she may do better as a higher ranked student at a smaller, less-demanding college, it’s just hard as a parent to know, if given the opportunity, she would do just as well, if not better, at the one that met all her criteria in the first place (i.e., the exceptional English program and the “fell in love with at first sight” feel.)

I think I’m coming to the realization that I’m way overthinking this. It’s her life, her choice, and I can only sit back and hope that she makes the right one now.

Thanks, all. :slight_smile:

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It probably helps to remember that there isn’t a “right choice.” She’ll make a choice, and she’ll have the capacity to make that the “right” choice by what she does with the opportunities that choice presents.

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I honestly don’t think Xavier is the ‘right’ choice for a kid whose main passion is writing and UTK doesn’t sound like the ‘right’ choice for a kid who wanted a LAC in a cooler clime. It’s a difficult situation for a kid who certainly expected to have lots of good choices.
For what it’s worth, Xavier is a nurturing college and it’s strong in the sciences, in business, for nursing. But students don’t attend for writing, and writing requires equally strong peers, preferably very diverse and different from your own. The major is reliant on peers in the way chemistry relies on labs. These students who love writing may be at Wooster or Allegheny or Ursinus rather than Xavier even if on paper those colleges would seem close.
She doesn’t like UTK because whole it’s a good academic fit, the social fit is bad and she doesn’t like the heat (which may feel oppressive to someone used to English weather). So, Xavier has one student she knows and is colder, and she picks Xavier. But it’s not a good enough reason since the acadics aren’t there.
So right now she may also disengage because neither option is good and she likely feels hurt.
In my opinion, supporting the visits but also offering alternatives (NACAC list, colleges with openings) may help. She’s not. ‘stuck’ between a rock and a hard, there are still lots of possibilities. The admission season in the us lasts till June. It’s not over. She can pick and still look. Lots of colleges out there would love to have her.

What about Hendrix? Knox? Lewis and Clark?
PSU is still accepting students and has a great writing concentration. UIowa may still. Other universities in colder climates may, too. It doesn’t have to be ‘large and hot but good for English, or nurturing and cold but bad for English’.

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I just did a quick Google search and it does appear that Iowa is still accepting applications and that the deadline is May 1st. OP, could you couch it to your daughter that “I’ve recently read about some schools with wonderful writing programs, and I wondered if you would be willing to submit a few more applications so you could potentially have some other choices when it’s time to decide?” You certainly don’t have to let her know that your virtual friends on CC are making these suggestions! You could point out that she could likely re-vamp a few essays so it’s not like she’s starting from scratch (but I would suggest she do a new Common App essay for the reasons stated earlier).

Also, and it sounds like she managed all parts of the original process on her own, but when my DD went through it 2 years ago, I was the secretarial help - I filled in all of the demographic info, etc., for the apps and let her upload the essays. She was crazy busy with all of her senior year activities so it was a win-win to have my help. So, although I am sure I will get flamed for this, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with you doing the secretarial part of some additional apps, which would make the additional apps all that much easier for your D to complete.

That way she won’t feel like you are saying “Xavier stinks” but are setting up a situation in which she really may have some additional options as April unfolds. Also, if you say this now then when the NACAC list comes out in early May it won’t be a surprise to her that you want her to rethink her preference for Xavier.

Good luck and keep us posted!

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Any chance she has ADHD inattentive type?

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I’m madly researching all these names of colleges that you guys keep coming up with. It’s astounding. And to think I didn’t have any idea that some colleges may still be accepting applicants even now! I’m certainly building up a cache of options for DD to explore if and when she decides it might be useful to expand her parameters a bit. I’ve reached out to Xavier to see if we can get a detailed look at the English Department on Sunday - having realized it’s a Sunday, so there won’t be any classes in session to sit in on - crafty!

@GnocchiB I don’t think my daughter has any issue with my secretarial help; it’s when the secretarial help transends into “more to think about” that it becomes onerous. But I’m certainly soaking up all your suggestions on how to word these options so that they’re useful and beneficial and not just piling onto the “anything but Xavier” bandwagon. And it’s really not that. I’m going on Sunday with an open mind and ready to be wowed. :slight_smile:

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@Trixy34 We’ve never been formally diagnosed with any form of ADHD. I don’t think so. She doesn’t strike me as someone who can’t conentrate for periods of time. Just more like it’s hard to find a reason to be attentive in the first place! No, that sounds bad. Like someone earlier said, she’s just waiting to find her spark. (I said that to her last night on our way to the high school awards night. I got the typical eye roll, but there was a little smirk there, too. :))

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I just wanted to say that i’m a senior applying to schools this year and i relate a lot to your daughter. i also got rejected from my reaches and my matches turned out to be unaffordable, so i’ve been going through the process again and finding schools that are still accepting applications. like your daughter i’m very quiet and introverted and haven’t really been passionate about ECs or a particular subject/field in HS. i also suffered from mental health issues like your daughter, including depression and anxiety. i think the issue seems to be sussing out whether she is truly happy with xavier or is just “settling”. i agree that having her friend there may allow her to become socially complacent once she is there and she may not be pushed to do more things or find more experiences because of that. i ended up applying to 5-6 more schools (including Ursinus, which i’ve heard nothing but good things about. Plus, i was awarded a great merit scholarship and my stats aren’t as good as your D’s.) and i feel like i have a lot more great options. i think it’s important for your D to attend a school that has great resources for what she’s good at, but it should be well-rounded too. i saw you mentioned in one of your first posts that she seems to be settling for an english degree because she is naturally talented with writing, and enjoyed CS but quit once it got too “mathy”. i think it would be good for her to have the option for other degrees (like CS or even creative work that includes CS and writing (game design comes to mind)), as kids often change their minds once or twice (or five or six :wink: ) once they find a passion for something through their classwork and/or peer interaction. your daughter sounds like a great kid and i agree that she will find her passion and drive and really “bloom” once she matriculates, no matter where she ends up!

edit: as an aside, children with inattentive ADHD often do have trouble finding reasons to be attentive in the first place. their brains are chronically understimulated so what would be a life-consuming academic passion (mildly exaggerating) for another kid may be just enough mental stimulation to get an ADHD kid interested. however once they are passionate about something they are really into it. i’m not sure if your D has mental health professionals, and of course her lack of interest may be caused by other stuff stemming from her past and confirmed mental health problems, but i just wanted to add additional insight into how ADHD can work.

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Wow @ACollegeHopeful3, having a perspective from someone my daughter’s age is incredibly insightful. I can’t thank you enough for taking the time to respond. If I wasn’t so sure she’d be mortified to find out I’m talking about her on CC, I’d print out your response and get her to read it. I’ve found that a viewpoint coming from her parents is internalized much differently than the same viewpoint but coming from a peer!

It’s encouraging to hear how you’ve turned your experience into a positive one and it gives me hope for our situation… if I can only get her to look further than Xavier right now. Again, after this weekend, maybe we’ll be on a different footing. Right now she won’t even engage the subject.

Oh, and yes she has a therapist. Perception of self-image and self-confidence are definitely what holds her back, but I’m going to do some research further on the ADHD aspect. It’s possible.

Thank you again for your candor, and good luck in the next steps of your journey! You deserve it. :slight_smile:

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Just another parent chiming in on the ADHD symptoms and diagnosis – one of mine was finally evaluated before he went off to college. We knew that the anxiety disorder he has often goes hand in hand with ADHD, but because he could concentrate for hours on things that excited him, we didn’t think he could have ADHD. Instead, I had chalked up the disorganization, lack of attention to detail, and inability to focus on the things that didn’t excite him as immaturity or willfulness (which led to 4 years of high school conflict).

While I appreciate an ADHD diagnosis is more art than science, he was diagnosed with ADHD (inattentive) and started meds. He said the first class he attended on meds was like a cloud cleared.

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Although I’m not sure, I’d imagine ADHD would’ve been picked up during the week-long inpatient psychiatric stay my DD had in junior year. She had been feeling particularly low and took an overdose - although immediately regretted it and came and got me and we rushed her to the hospital, so all was okay - but as a result, she was hospitalized and evaluated extensively by psychologists and therapists and placed on anti-depression meds. The overall consensus was this was all due to body dysmorphia. They didn’t pick up on anything else. :slight_smile:

Maybe this is why I’m so involved in the next stage of her life. I do know once she goes off to college, my job is pretty much done to a large extent, so getting her into Richmond (which was HER top choice originally) was really important to me, both because she felt good there and it catered to her talents.

But no more what-if or buts, we’ve gotta move forward now. I’m learning to accept that…slowly. :slight_smile:

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Why does everyone think Xavier will be so terrible? Catholic schools are known for the basics, including reading and writing. Many of the students will have had Catholic school educations and the basics will be there. Many of the professors will be religious scholars who have been reading and writing forever.

I have a daughter who struggled in reading and writing all through Catholic school. She is extremely slow reader. She was learning English at age 5 when everyone else was learning to read. Her vocabulary is not great. And it turns out when she was compared to the rest of the world (ACT/SAT) and not just Catholic school kids, she did great on the writing portion. And she has beautiful penmanship.

My aunt is an author. Her daughter, my Cousin, (went to Williams) wanted to be a writer but even my aunt said that would never happen because Cousin just didn’t do the work. Aunt was always writing, always thinking about writing, traveling to places to write about. Cousin was always planning to write but didn’t do it. Aunt took about 7 years to get the first book out after the first draft and since then has written one about every year. Cousin? She researches and writes at work, but never for pleasure. She’ll never be an author.

Go to Xavier. Take the scholarship. If it isn’t challenging enough, UT-K will still be there.