I don’t know whether or not this will be helpful to you, but when I think of Harvey Mudd, I think of Caltech & MIT; when I think of Northwestern, I think of UPenn & Cornell.
If you see yourself staying ``technical’’ – either going into PhD program in computer science or otherwise inclined to keep doing technical work, Harvey Mudd is probably the better place
If you will like to get into business aspect (either directly getting into consulting/IB) or shooting to rise up the management ladder after starting a technical job, NU is probably the better place to be prepared for that.
(emphasis on probably better) – I am sure you can go to NU and get into a top PhD program.
@osuprof Do you think I would be better off going into business from NU or HMC? I am most likely going to pursue a Bachelor and MAYBE a Masters, but most likely would go right into business after my first four years.
@FastRabbit3 - i will reiterate what I wrote in a previous thread in case you missed it.
I’ve said this many times and I’ll say it again - many students change their mind. If you go to Northwestern, you can easily switch to a non-engineering subject like English, Economics, Political Science, etc. If you change your mind at the other tech-focused programs like HMC and RPI and want to switch to the social sciences or humanities, it will be a lot harder. Also, on a national level, Northwestern is significantly more prominent / prestigious than the other 2 options, which are virtually unknown schools in the public domain. Yes, a few people will have heard of Harvey Mudd but the majority of even educated people have no clue about these small LACs. I think it is a no brainer for Northwestern. NU’s acceptance rate last year was 8.4% and this year, it is 8.9%. Source: https://dailynorthwestern.com/2019/04/03/campus/northwestern-acceptance-rate-rises-for-first-time-in-10-years/
Also, I know rankings are not everything but the harsh reality is that the majority of people are very unfamiliar with LAC schools (even Amherst, Williams, Swarthmore and Middlebury). They look at the top 25 in US News (national universities) and the rest is “irrelevant.” The LAC rankings are disregarded by most people. I cannot tell you how many people (even very educated people such as doctors and lawyers) have no clue what these schools are, including Williams and Amherst. If you want to compare apples to apples, I would say the top 5 LACs (on US news) are comparable to the top 10-12 universities on US News. After that, the other top 15-20 LACs are comparable to the US News ranked colleges that are between 20-40. If Harvey Mudd was ranked in the same arena as the large universities, it would be ranked likely from 30-50. Instead, it is 18 on the LAC ranking. Northwestern is top 10 on the national US News list with the big competitors (all ivy leagues, etc.) and ranks ahead of Brown, Cornell and Dartmouth.
If prestige is any bit important to you, Northwestern is the logical choice. With the other 2 names (RPI and HMC), you are going to get blank stares from 99% of people around the country when you say where you went to college. That is the harsh reality. Northwestern is a much larger university with significantly more alumni on the coasts (both east and west), more resources, a MUCH larger endowment (top 10 in the country), more accomplished alumni in all fields (Entertainment, Law, Business, Finance, etc). And not to mention, your academic and social experience will be A LOT better at Northwestern, which has a more well rounded student body and experience. Also, BIG 10 sports and close proximity to Chicago are major positives. Northwestern is just in a different league than the other 2 options. Congratulations on your acceptances.
If you are looking to go into business, Northwestern is a top target for the top consulting companies (BCG, Bain and Mckinsey) and the top investment banks. Harvey Mudd is NOT a target.
“'ve said this many times and I’ll say it again - many students change their mind. If you go to Northwestern, you can easily switch to a non-engineering subject like English, Economics, Political Science”
Double edged sword! The chances you won’t end up majoring in computer science are higher if you attend Northwestern than if you attend Harvey Mudd. It’s hard to see so many 4.0 English, humanities and social science majors out partying when you are busting your butt for your 2.5 in computer science. More students and a large number of students end up switching out of STEM when they attend schools without a STEM focus. That could be an argument for going to Harvey Mudd.
The fact that the lay public hasn’t seen as many bumper stickers that say Harvey Mudd is not a reason not to attend. Anyone who does not know Harvey Mudd knows almost nothing or nothing about science, engineering, and academics and they are not in the business of hiring. Why do you care if the local grocery hasn’t heard of the school you attended? (anyway many have)
Of the two, I’d say Harvey Mudd would be on top of my list. Had you said Chicago, I’d be more conflicted.
To StanfordGSBOO, me thinks you don’t know a whole lot about academics. About this, “If prestige is any bit important to you, Northwestern is the logical choice.” you are flat out wrong. @Publisher is more on track.
PS about "NU’s acceptance rate last year was 8.4% and this year, it is 8.9%. ". Who cares. Not a basis for choosing a school.
@lostaccount - part of an education is to provide you with the best opportunities, regardless of your path. There are virtually NO opportunities coming out of HMC that Northwestern does not provide. However, there are MANY opportunities that HMC cannot provide to the OP that Northwestern can provide. And if you are going to spend 4 years and a lot of $$$, why not pick the school (Northwestern) that is significantly more recognized on a national level?? If this was MIT or Cal Tech or Stanford vs Northwestern, I could understand the difficulty in this decision. But, HMC is an unknown outside of tech and even within tech, this is not a major feeding ground for top tech companies due to its small size. Northwestern would be my choice.
Okay, here we go again. HMCers will likely get much more time and attention from full profs as mentors, research PIs, and recommenders than students at NU. Again…, @StanfordGSB00 has never set foot on the HMC campus and knows nothing about it. OP, this is the third thread you’ve started on the same topic (which, by the way, is against the TOS). The ground has been covered pretty thoroughly. Bigger university with more majors, big time sports, lousy weather? Smaller tech focused college with unique core, tighknit student body, and great weather?
“HMCers will likely get much more time and attention from full profs as mentors, research PIs, and recommenders than students at NU.”
Disagree with this.
NU isn’t exactly some gigantic public research U the size of Michigan so
- Even while grad students would take up the attention of profs as well, by student-faculty ratio (total students to total faculty), NU has a smaller ratio than HMC; the undergrad to faculty ratio isn’t close).
- Unlike at some huge publics, undergrads aren’t second-class citizens. Ivies/equivalents give their undergrads plenty of research opportunities. If you look at winners of awards like the Goldwater or who gets in to the very top PhD programs, it’s the Ivies/equivalents and public honors colleges (who also give their students plenty of research opportunities) who do best. That couldn’t happen if those undergrads didn’t get research opportunities.
Hello everyone! This is my second post on the matter in order to update my question / description.
I am a Computer Science major looking to choose between either Harvey Mudd or Northwestern University as my next home!
I played football and wrestling in HS, but I’m not sure if I would want to continue in college (I would rather focus on academics). I know that CS is my passion and I won’t be switching it — that being said I wouldn’t be against dual/joint majoring in CS and Engineering (though I have had no engineering background or experience).
I am a very outgoing person, who loves logic (i.e. Math, CS, Physics).
My family is concerned with attending a school with prestige, but I have not really been concerned with that myself — maybe I don’t understand how beneficial it is or maybe prestige isn’t as important as they think?
I have not yet visited both campuses 
For even more background,
Harvey Mudd and Northwestern both boast a roughly 13% acceptance rate. The cost of attendance for HMC and NU is 16k and 19k respectively (to me the cost is equal, money is essentially not a factor). They both have amazing computer science programs but are extremely different schools. Both schools are a plane ride away from where I live (East Coast).
They are practically opposites, but it’s incredibly difficult for me to choose between the two, I am very indecisive and I want to figure out which place would be best for me! Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!!
Hi everybody,
I am trying to decide what college I want to make my home for the next 4 years of my life.
About me:
- I am interested in majoring in Computer Science.
- I live in Pennsylvania (and would want to come back to the east coast after college)
- I am a very adaptable type of person (making choosing just one college incredibly difficult as I am extremely okay with either college despite their differences)
Quick Stats: (NU - Northwestern University, HMC - Harvey Mudd College)
NU
- 18k/year to attend
- 9% acceptance rate
- Far from home
HMC
- 17k/year to attend
- 13% acceptance rate
- Very very far from home
Like I said, I am a very indecisive. Because of that, I find it incredibly difficult to choose between these two amazing choices that I have – seriously any help / information is welcome!!
I have no horse in this race but do think anyone arguing that Harvey Mudd is somehow less prestigious than Northwestern is simply wrong and doesn’t understand how Harvey Mudd differs from a school like Northwestern. I’m wrong if what you mean by prestigious is that the local baker, grocer or car salesperson is more likely to have heard of it. Yes, but they’re more likely to have heard of Penn State. So would you choose Penn State over Northwestern. In the Northeast it’s even more likely they’ve heard of Hofstra than Northwestern. Should Northwestern be turned down in favor of Hofstra. Let’s talk St. Johns…
I am not suggesting that Harvey Mudd is better or worse than Northwestern. The two schools are so different on so many dimensions that the argument made by @StanfordGSB00 seems absurd. I am disputing the idea that Harvey Mudd is not as prestigious because such an argument reflects a bumper sticker mentality that shouldn’t be a consideration in an informed discussion of serious differences across schools.
From a selectivity standpoint, the two schools are not very distinguishable. Students at Harvey Mudd have scores and grades at least as high, if not higher, than those at Northwestern. From an experiential standpoint, the two schools have very different vibes. The schools also have different missions and goals, with Harvey Mudd being much more focused on STEM.
Naturally a student uncertain about a STEM career should not choose Harvey Mudd. An uncertain student would benefit from the wide range of possible majors a school like Northwestern offers. On the other hand, there are many students with enough personal insight and pre-exposure to STEM that they know they want to pursue a STEM career. Some such students are ready to hit college running. They’ll thrive in an atmosphere that treats them like adults ready to embark on their career surrounded by potential collaborators in an environment that fully supports that endeavor. For those students, a school like Harvey Mudd may be more appealing than Northwestern.
In terms of employability, there is no evidence that computer science students from Northwestern are more attractive to employers or earn salaries higher than those from Harvey Mudd. In fact, if anything, it’s the opposite. Harvey Mudd is left out of some rankings due to its focus on undergraduate education but when included , it fares favorably to other schools and certainly to Northwestern, something particularly true when considering computer science focused ratings. Nearly all ratings about ROI or salaries of computer science graduates that include Harvey Mudd place it near the very top (top 5). That can’t be said about Northwestern. That isn’t to say that Northwestern isn’t “good” or even “as good”. But there is no evidence to suggest it is better than Harvey Mudd. Whether Harvey Mudd is much better depends upon what the students is seeking. For those who know they want STEM, it may be much better. It depends.
(https://www.ivyachievement.com/computer-science-rankings/ yeah yea, self reported salaries aren’t reliable but the data is consistent with other ratings.)
“Nearly all ratings about ROI or salaries of computer science graduates that include Harvey Mudd place it near the very top (top 5).”
Do note that locale has a lot to do with salaries (and also cost of living). The West Coast pays more but also costs a lot more to live in than the Midwest and the geographical distribution of alums won’t be the same.
Missed an earlier post by @StanfordGSB00’s My reason for addressing each issue is because some claims being made are fairly common misconceptions.
Everyone’s an expert 'cause once you’ve gone to college & then had a kid who also went 20 or so years later,…well you come to know everything there is to know @ “higher education”, right? Then there are people who have spent 20, 30 or 40 years studying higher education and related issues/topics. What are they when everyone else is an expert?
Anyway…Anyone who knows anything about STEM and anyone in a position to hire will know Harvey Mudd. The same people who don’t believe in science, think vaccines cause autism and think the world is flat will have never heard of Harvey Mudd. Yes, they will give you a blank stare, but that will be true whether or not you mention Harvey Mudd. About the statement, “Even with CS or Engineering circles, you will get some blank stares”. If that happens, check the person’s pulse. Then quick, call 911 {Unless we’re talking about the kind of engineer who drives a train and wears a big hat toot toot!).
The fact that Northwestern has a “very prominent PhD” program and that Lyricra “was INVENTED” at Northwestern is irrelevent unless the OP intends to skip the Bachelor, get a PhD and to to go heavy on Ban-Lon attire with tights–not the best look.
About this, “And not to mention, the student experience will be more well balanced at Northwestern compared to these other 2” I assume by “balanced” StanfordGSB00 means “general”. Not all students seek or need a “more well balanced” or “general” curriculum at the college level. Some, and especially those who completed a rigorous general high school curriculum, are ready to specialize in STEM rather than to repeat the last year or so in high school by taking a bunch of survey courses in humanities, arts, and social sciences. Some students are already serious STEM students by that point and want to get on with it. Naturally if that isn’t the case, then Northwestern could be the better bet. But let’s not forget that Harvey Mudd is one of the Claremont Colleges that shares its campus grounds with 4 other undergrad colleges. Together, functionally (but not administratively), the Claremont colleges are not that dissimilar from a school like Cornell that has a school of engineering.
“And let’s consider applications to be a rough barometer for national appeal / interest …” Let’s not. Or at least let’s not care too much about “national appeal” when considering what school is most appropriate for a given student. It does not matter whether such an education is appealing to millions of others or none at all. It only matters if it is a good fit to those considering attending the school.
" Northwestern received over 40,000 applications. Harvey Mudd received less than 5,000"
Somebody’s taking US News & World Report mentality far too seriously. The 5K applying to Harvey Mudd are not simply a subset or smaller pool of the 40K applying to Northwestern. The Harvey Mudd applicants are a self selected group and are likely to be far more well informed and stronger, on average, than those who apply to Northwestern. But yes, Northwestern probably does attract a larger number of students more interested in the bumper sticker value of its “name” than they are knowledgeable about what the school actually offers. You won’t find that for Harvey Mudd. And most of those won’t get offers from Northwestern either.
“Harvey Mudd does not have a single top 10 faculty or research ranking.”
That’s because it does not have a doctoral program. Apparently there are 201 colleges that offer engineering programs at the college level only-and US News rates Harvey Mudd as #1. Wiki says, "Harvey Mudd maintains the highest rate of science and engineering Ph.D. production among all undergraduate colleges and second highest (Caltech ranks first and MIT third) compared to all universities and colleges, according to a 2008 report by the National Science Foundation. Not too shabby! it also maintains a relationship with CalTech which is only 26 miles away.
And the most troubling of all: " I strongly feel that Northwestern will provide more brand prestige ". So does the name “Kardashian” but I’ll pass!
OP, you’ve got a few great but different choices. The one that is best for you simply depends upon what type of school you are seeking. The choices are very different. I concur with others suggesting that RPI is probably less strong than Harvey Mudd but it is in a very different place geographically. So it may make sense if that is a consideration and if RPI is closer to home. As others have said, Northwestern is more like Penn or (but less so) Cornell while Harvey Mudd is more like CalTech or MIT. It will be more intense and, on average, student will be more serious in terms of their commitment and work efforts although not less capable of having fun. All 3 are excellent schools. They each offer different pros and cons.
Good luck choosing the best fit to what you seek.
I am in those “CS Circles”. HMC is well-respected, but it will still oftentimes get blank stares. Many companies (such as the one I am joining after I graduate in May, recruit at NU, but not HMC). It is simply such a small school. Of course, HMC grads do very well for themselves - and most of the elite choices in CS will be very familiar with HMC (top CS grad programs, FAANG/Big4, Unicorns, and the like) - the problem is really with companies that are not top of the field with technology (which is where the vast majority of the jobs are - many of which are still well-paying). Both NU and HMC are solid choices.
OP wants to get into business, Mudd is the wrong school for OP. Mudd also has back breaking mathematics classes, with so much grade deflation, its harder than MIT to earn an A. It just back breaking academics at Mudd, Northwestern, is much easier going, and much much better socially. I don’t see the advantage of going to a school smaller than a high school, even with its fine reputation in CS, IF the OP really wants an MBA later.
With that, Mudd has excellent placement into top CS jobs if OP wants that.
MBA candidates need to learn to socialize, Northwestern is the best pick.
If you review Coloradomama’s past posts, she’s got a bone to pick with Mudd. I believe her kid was denied admission. Mudders certainly do go in to MBA programs very successfully if that is what they want.
I really hope the OP gets the chance to spend some time on both campuses. HMU, while widely know in the CS community, definitely has a different feel about it. Originally occupying the #1 spot on our S college list, it fell completely off after S spent some time there. HMU CS curriculum is great, but it’s not for everyone.
I agree with that. I’d think a student who had visited both campuses would have a pretty clear preference.
Am I the only one who thinks the OP would have a better chance of pursuing wrestling at Harvey Mudd than at NU?
I don’t think the 5Cs has a wresting team. They have football. It is a significant commitment to be an athlete at Mudd, though. Certainly students do it but it is pretty intense.