Presumably, as a Johnson candidate, the OP will have already spent a weekend on W&L’s campus, as part of the selection process.
7 Likes
Congratulations on some amazing choices.
You listed some significant Pros for Bowdoin, but unless you can appeal the FA package, W&L sounds great, with DC proximity, alum network, and $10,000 stipend. Better weather, and Greek Life isn’t always so bad (underappreciated for job networking).
One thing we see so often are discussions between new college grads and their parents regarding assistance in purchasing a condo or house.
So how about having a discussion with your parents about setting aside the $25k per year you would “save” in a segregated investment account. Hopefully in 4 years it is somewhere between $100k and $150k, perfect for a down payment on a condo in the city where you end up working.
2 Likes
Our experience. Dd applied to Richmond and W&L. Richmond is more "preppy ". It was initially DD’s top choice. She was accepted but with not good FA. She said that she is glad that she is not attending it. W&L is definitely more conservative. Our friends have two DDs there. Girls are very active but with religious values.
1 Like
I laugh when I read things like this - because if you asked 100 people on the street about Haverford, 95 would think you are talking about Harvard and I’m not sure how many people know anything about Middlebury or Bowdoin either. Davidson - because of Steph Curry, not because of the school itself.
The schools people know - besides the Ivies, the Ohio States, UGAs, Alabamas, etc. People typically know schools based on their footprint and sports.
But you know who knows all these schools ?
The people that need to. That’s what matters.
You don’t have a bad choice. You might for you - but not overall.
We are Jewish - and when we talked (on phone) to the Hillel, we were floored - small buy mighty. I watched video panels and they had minority students, and they were all pleased. I’m not there - but I think the preconceived image people have and reality likely don’t align.
Currently 1279 of 1881 or 68% are white students per the CDS. So there are a lot of non white students (as CDS classifies)
Davidson, as a comparator is 60% - since it’s Southern.
Richmond is 62%.
Haverford is 49%.
Best of luck - such great names but you have to think of your family’s financial future too. Will having another $100-120K in the bank help them or help you (grad school, etc).
There’s always tradeoffs - but I don’t see prestige, name recognition, or career outcomes (especially if grad school)) as one.
Good luck.
2 Likes
In my opinion, Richmond is the offer to beat here, based on your apparent preferences.
These are all T25 liberal arts colleges, if we go by USNews. I’m by no means a true believer in these rankings, but since you have brought up reputation, let’s look at these rankings as a proxy for reputation, for the sake of argument:
Bowdoin: 5
Davidson: 14
W&L: 19
Middlebury: 19
Richmond: 22
Haverford: 24
Bowdoin, which is consistently ranked in the top 5, could legitimately be considered more “elite” than the others (in the top tier with Williams, Amherst, Swarthmore, and Pomona), but that doesn’t mean it would materially affect your grad school and/or career prospects as compared with the others; in fact, the opportunities associated with proximity to a politically-significant city like Richmond or Philadelphia could easily outweigh an additional sliver of intangible “eliteness.” And further, the prestige of a named full-ride scholarship from a still-elite LAC could be argued to easily match if not outshine being just another graduate of an even-slightly-more-elite LAC. (And Richmond Scholars are more rare than Johnson Scholars - about 3% of Richmond graduates vs. 10% of W&L grads)
Re: Haverford in particular - I don’t know where the impression that Haverford carries more weight than Richmond/W&L comes from. It’s great school but neither better nor better-known IMO; I’m sure it’s better known in certain regions but not across the board. And your “pro” of “Nearby UPenn for grad school and research” is a red herring in my opinion; your likelihood of getting into UPenn for grad school will be no different from Haverford than from any of the others, and the likelihood that you’d actually do research at UPenn as a Haverford undergrad is low; you’re far more likely to work with faculty at Haverford or possibly the immediately-adjacent Bryn Mawr.
For what you want, I honestly don’t see what makes any of your non-full-ride schools worth a six-figure financial investment over Richmond or W&L. They’re all great, and the things you like about the more expensive schools are available at the full ride schools too. True, you might need a car to get the full benefit of the city of Richmond, as a URich student, but with a full ride, you could afford a car if you need one… and with a car, you could also get to DC in 2.5 hrs if there were a one-off opportunity or interview there.
Academically, at Richmond, I would go beyond saying that they have “Strong business/Econ + solid Poli Sci” - if you want a gov/econ blend, their PPEL major is top-notch. Guaranteed summer funding, in the current economic climate, is huge - I certainly wouldn’t count my paid-internship chickens without it.
To me, the only true potential downsides of Richmond and W&L are the slightly more conservative culture and the prominence of Greek life. But honestly, in the world that’s unfolding before us, I’m not sure it’s an advantage for a student aspiring to a public policy career to attend college in a progressive ideological bubble. You’re going to have to contend with conservatism in your professional life; a school like Richmond or W&L will teach you how. (And yet, progressive views will be well represented and fairly taught; it’s not like you’re considering Hillsdale or Liberty.) And as for Greek life, you don’t have to partake if you don’t want to; there are outlets and alternatives for unaffiliated students, as others have already attested here. (And @SportyPrep’s point re: the networking value of Greek life is well taken, too.)
We do see students here whose parents would be so swayed by the idea of a T5 vs. a T20/25 that they would pressure their student to forfeit a full ride. If that were your parents, then maybe there would be more cause for debate here. But your parents are “leaning to the full rides,” and I agree with them. You have not one but two very generous, coveted opportunities. I would choose between them. And to me, Richmond sounds like the better fit of the two, but your direct experience of visiting and assessing how they feel should absolutely outweigh anyone’s best guess as to which fits better.
5 Likes
All of these are outstanding LACs and all can get you where you want to go. All of these schools will be well known by anyone who matters (ex. law school admissions, future employers, etc.) so I’d take that out of your equation.
Focus on fit and affordability. Factor in the benefits/opportunities you will have with the two wonderful full scholarship offers (ex. summer funding, etc.).
If you take one of our excellent full ride offers, will your parents help you with the cost of law school?
3 Likes
You make some good points. The problem is we have but this one thread (the OP’s profile is hidden) to go on. Bowdoin, Middlebury and Haverford are what our friend, @NiceUnparticularMan would call “academicky” colleges; it’s the way they see themselves and the way they have distributed their resources. As the OP put it, when given the choice, Haverford preferred not to emphasize “applied economics” over theoretical economics. It could well be that the OP is not looking for academicky colleges.
1 Like
Interesting comment. I consider every one of this student’s options “academicky”.
3 Likes
And with all due respect, I don’t consider Accounting an academicky subject.
4 Likes
A preference for a less theoretical economics curriculum comports with the OP’s potential interest in a career in policy, a field which, at its essence, emphasizes practical approaches to societal issues.
1 Like
I’m confused. This student is interested in Economics and PoliSci. What am I missing? For what it’s worth, I agree about Accounting, but I don’t know how that applies here or ties into your comment about academicky colleges.
2 Likes
URichmond is a small college of approximately 3200 undergraduates. Approximately 40% of its undergraduates major in Business, Organizational Studies and Accounting.
4 Likes
I did not understand that from your comment at all. But if you feel that is helpful to the OP, fair enough. Thanks for the explanation. I was lost! 
6 Likes
Agreed that Richmond leans more applied/pre-professional, overall. I am unclear as to whether that’s a good or bad thing, vis-a-vis “fit” for the OP. But part of the reason I pointed out the PPEL major is that I think it could be considered an oasis of (if I may torture our invented vocabulary) “academickiness” at UR, should this be desired 
(ETA: PPE majors and their variants are modeled after the interdisciplinary program developed at Oxford in the 1920’s. They typically represent a particularly “academicky” and intellectually rigorous course of study within the institutions that offer them.)
8 Likes
Regarding academics in a general sense, Richmond’s students, when surveyed, appreciate their school for its “Classroom Experience”:
1 Like
I am grateful that yes, my parents have said they would help cover some of the cost of Law School if I take the full ride, which is why, especially considering the feedback, I am just looking between the full ride at W&L, and the full ride at URichmond. I have been seeing some comments on how URichmond has very strong connections to the DC area, and I would be grateful for any advice on the DC linkage of the two schools, and any other feedback on various factors of the school, including outcomes and research opportunities available at each.
As well, for some who have been commenting on the campuses, I have toured both, and both are honestly gorgeous, just different in unique ways. Thank you for any further advice, and all the feedback has been greatly appreciated!
4 Likes
What I put in the earlier post.
I’ll share with you one thing told to use by a Prof at W&L - we were self touring during covid and he stopped us. He noted, on a per capita basis, that W&L places more kids in DC than any other college in the country, with the exception of Sewanee. Of course, that may change with DC shrinking in workforce by the day.
See this program. Talk to the prof on the bottom. He stopped us on campus and talked to us and is the source of the above statement. If he stopped us as we wandered, no doubt he would be open to a conversation with you if you reached out.
3 Likes
Not the same thing, but URichmond offers a semester at American U in DC. Approved Programs - Registration - Registrar's Office - University of Richmond
2 Likes
Most schools offer DC. Just wanted to offer that stat and the source and I don’t know him other than a 30 minute conversation but have to think he’d be a great source for this student for their goals in general but also W&L. He came from the DC area prior.
I’m unsure of where the post went, but I saw another post (not by tsbna) about the name “Lee.” The university itself acknowledges the history involved with the Lee name, and there was a significant push to change the name to remove Lee involving both faculty and students. However ultimately, the Board of Trustees voted to not go forward with the name change - details of those votes are not public.
W&L’s community goes beyond our name - while our name does carry heavy weight in its history, it doesn’t represent our entire community, and that’s been made abundantly clear with how the University has pivoted to support many marginalized communities and students, including me.
2 Likes