Agree…and that is why I specifically said it isn’t the same program. But it is a good option if URichmond turns out to be the better overall fit.
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Delete.
Please move on from discussing the W&L name and get back to helping the OP with their decision. TIA!
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OP - If you’re interested in studying Economics and Political science, here are some things to check out beyond W&L’s Wash Term (Dr. Alexander is an incredible person, if you’ve met him during Johnson Weekend).
Law, Justice and Society Program - The LJS program incorporates aspects from both the Williams School, the College, and the Law School. It’s a minor, so you can tack it onto a major of Politics or Econ. Basically, LJS minors take a variety of unique courses that delve into ethics, law, and a lot of other courses aimed at examining justice here in the US. If you’re Pre-Law, this may interest you.
W&L also has opportunities in the Roger Mudd center for ethics if you’re interested into getting into more ethics in relation to a variety of topics (They sometimes tie into LJS classes).
If you’re interested in the investing side of Economics, W&L has the Williams Investment Society (WIS), which is a competitive program that manages part of W&L’s capital. They were recently ranked 5th out of 500 schools who run similar programs, managing capital valued over $25,000,000. Williams Investment Society (WIS) : Washington and Lee University
W&L also has student consulting, if consulting interests you. Student Consulting : Washington and Lee University
Here’s a list of a bunch of Co-Curricular programs W&L has within the Williams School: Co-Curricular Organizations : Washington and Lee University
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And the shepherd program.
And tea !!
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Yes, definitely the Shepherd Program!!! I would highly encourage you, if you come to W&L, to get involved w/ Shepherd, you’ll get to see a lot of both Rockbridge county, and learn more!
Specifically, you can get involved with the Blue Ridge Mile, which is a student-run program under Shepherd that aims to assist people to obtain, or reinstate their driver’s license through working with both clients and local courts.
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As a demographic distinction that may be of interest, W&L students tend to arrive from more southerly directions, with Texas, North Carolina and Georgia commonly well represented. Richmond students tend to arrive from more northerly directions, with New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Connecticut commonly well represented.
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Go to W&L. They will treat you well as a Johnson Scholar and the perks are immense. Perhaps it is worth trying to renegotiate w/Bowdoin for more aid but really the Johnson is incredible. And Bowdoin doesn’t have the name recognition you think it does though it is an incredible school. “I got a full ride to a great liberal arts school” sounds much more impressive to the average person than “I attended a top x liberal arts school.”
Edit: PM me if you would like more info about Bowdoin!
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I just want to reinforce some comments above–as I was reading the original post, I immediately thought of Richmond’s PPEL program. Add in a full ride and that seems to me like a really exciting opportunity for you in particular.
I assume you also know about this, but another very interesting program at Richmond is the Jepson School:
It is sort of like a secondary admissions honors program, so no guarantees:
But I could see it being something you might want to pursue.
To be clear, there are no bad choices on your list. But I just immediately thought of these two things as seeming like a good fit for you, in combination with a great offer (and for the record, the sort of people who are likely matter to you in the future are not going to second guess you taking that offer at Richmond).
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And equally unknown by anyone (except employers who have a need to know or another college) the farther west you go. Really for general public purposes, Richmond may be the ‘best’ known as it is a city they may have heard of. People who live west tend to go to big state schools and know the Ivies and big D1 schools. My nephew recently played in the national club hockey tournament (he plays for Colorado School of Mines) and my brother said he was playing ‘some school from Maine like Colby’ but I think he actually played Bates. My brother also couldn’t believe ‘Oakland’ had a hockey team until I said it was Oakland Michigan, not California.
So don’t worry too much about these schools being separated by 5 or 10 spots on a ranking. Those who need to know (Law school admissions, someone hiring for an internship) will know the schools and probably not care if you attended Haverford or Middlebury.
I agree that the consortium for the scholarships may offer a lot more benefit than the rank of another college. Often they get you into a popular class with early registration, have events or trips with introductions to politicians, staffers, ‘back stage pass’ type things. There may be social events like cocktail parties with the University president or an opportunity to be an usher at a sold out event. It may be just that you get a nicer dorm room.
I think it may be time to rank by cost (and don’t underestimate that with W&L or Richmond you’ll know the cost for all 4 years and not have to apply for FA again), size of the campus, D1 or D3 sports, weather, food, specific opportunities like clubs, internships, a student newspaper, musical theater, a Capella, a consortium with other schools in the area.
Re-Visit any school you still have questions about. even if it is a virtual visit.
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I agree with the consensus on this thread that the choice comes down to Richmond vs W&L.
A lot has been made in this discussion about the number of students at Richmond pursuing business degrees. Last year 36% of the senior class graduated with degrees in business.
Is Washington & Lee all that different? While it doesn’t have a separate School of Business, it does offer business majors. Last year 26% of their senior class graduated with degrees in business. AND another 3% graduated with degrees in engineering, making total of 29% who did not major in liberal arts disciplines.
36% vs 29% doesn’t seem all that different. I’m sure that the 2 schools are different in lots of other ways, starting with the fact that Richmond is significantly bigger (3200 undergrads) than W&L (1900 undergrads).
And gaining some insights about how business works in our society isn’t a bad thing for someone interested in policy & law.
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This sounds so familiar. My kid was offered the Johnson and was also accepted to Bowdoin. It was such a hard choice for them. Everyone associated with the Johnson at W&L was amazing. But some of your cons were theirs as well. Small town, mostly greek. I think you have to look at what makes sense to you and for you. With Richmond you may have more “real world” opportunities for internship. Also do not discount the summer funding. This is great to fund housing if you are doing an unpaid internship. If you do not take either $0 COA school then you should look at what where you would like to attend by program and location because I think they are all relatively similar in prestige. Good luck! It really seems like you can’t go wrong with any of them but since you mention grad school you may want to really consider the $0 COA schools and save for grad school.
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Just to clarify, W&L does have a school of “business” (Williams School of Commerce, Economics, and Politics). Students graduate either from Williams or The College.
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Never meant to exempt W&L from scrutiny on the subject of liberal arts focus. You are correct that as the smaller school it would have even fewer liberal arts courses and neither school is known for their strength in the sciences.
The OP’s goal seems to be to gain employment with the federal government. Let us cross our fingers and hope everything works out for them.
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For core sciences, namely physics, chemistry and biology, I regard Richmond as balanced and sufficiently strong in comparison to its peers. This might make Richmond an excellent choice for a premed student, for example. W&L is somewhat broader in this sciences, however, by offering a geosciences program.
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It seems from the direction of the post and comments you’re leaning towards one of the two full rides.
This is huge. To graduate from law school with relatively little debt will be life changing. Congratulations on your accomplishments!
Onto the two apparent choices. We visited both. My C25’s take was that, while W&L is gorgeous, it might get boring very quickly. Lexington is tiny and cute and in a great location if you’re outdoorsy (and have a car). It’s dominated by W&L and VMI, and that’s where your social life will come from. Richmond is a city in itself, independent from the universities within it. There’s culture, nightlife, restaurants, parks and plenty more to do. There’s a decent airport and a train station that’ll get you to DC in 2 hours. W&L and UR will be similar academically for you, but their respective settings are not. Perhaps you should also consider where you want to live for the next four years, not just the characteristics of each school.
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The average size of URichmond’s STEM faculty equals that of Hamilton’s which is a LAC about half its size. At 20 full-time faculty positions, Bio is by all accounts the biggest STEM department at Richmond because of its popularity with pre-meds. However, in the academic year 2022, Hamilton graduated twice as many physics majors as Richmond.
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Please keep comments focused on the OP. If you’d like to respond to another poster, please pm. Thank you!
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I agree with the above advice. You have more than one full ride scholarship. Go there. You can’t lose. You have guaranteed money for all 4 years of school and it looks VERY good on a resume.
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