<p>I am talking about my 80-year-old dad and 77-year-old mother. The rely solely on their social security benefits, which between them is only about $200 less than what I bring home. It is not a lot, but they could make ends meet if they tried. It takes sacrifice, but I manage to do it.</p>
<p>My family has always been lower middle class so it’s not like they used to have a lot of money and now they don’t. They have never saved money, either. I don’t know what they were planning to live on. They refinanced their house some years ago so they still have a house payment. They drive a newer model vehicle and have a car payment. My mother smokes at least a pack of cigarettes a day and plays bingo four days a week. They both gamble at a casino once every two months or so. (Thank God gambling is not legal in our state so they have to travel to do it.) </p>
<p>My dad was an only child, so he inherited all that my grandmother had six years ago. They sold her house and belongings, so coupled with her cash, they received more than $100,000, which should have been a nice nest egg. They have already spent that and are now talking about selling the “farm” which is 25 acres where my grandfather (and us grandkids) spent many hours gardening and raising a few cows. My two brothers currently live on the farm. My grandfather would be rolling over in his grave if he knew this because he intended the farm to stay in the family. My grandmother did not have a will, so since my dad is an only child, everything went to him by affidavit of heirship. She told us she and Papa intended for the farm to go to my brothers and me. Never dreaming that my dad would want to sell it, we had no problem with it passing to him, and then later to us. At least I had no problem because my brother’s ex-wife would have tried to get half of his part.</p>
<p>Does anyone know of any resources or solutions? I have already told my mom she needs to find a new hobby besides bingo and to quit smoking, but that’s not going to happen. They are in reasonably good health so could live for many more years.</p>
<p>Unless they are incompetent, there’s no way to control their money or their habits. However, you should consider what you might be willing to do for them should they run out of money. Having a plan will make it much easier when/if the time comes.</p>
<p>Unless there is some encumbrance on the title, there is also no way that you can stop your father from selling the farm. He is the legal titleholder, and what people “wanted” to do with their estate is irrelevant unless they actually put those wants in a legally recognizable written form. Is there any way that you and your siblings, or you individually, can buy the farm from your parents?</p>
<p>ETA: Call the local Council on Aging or whatever the elder care governmental service is. They may have some resources for you to try to convince and/or teach your parents to handle their money better.</p>
<p>Thats what I was going to suggest-- that maybe your sibs that are living on the property could buy the property, and hopefully at a rate that they could afford and that would give your parents enough to live on for a while… </p>
<p>And this may sound harsh, but if your mom smokes 1+ packs a day of cigarettes, , she may seem in reasonably good health, but the odds are not in her favor for a long life.</p>
<p>*
And this may sound harsh, but if your mom smokes 1+ packs a day of cigarettes, , she may seem in reasonably good health, but the odds are not in her favor for a long life.*</p>
<p>She’s already lived two years longer than my mother who never smoked.</p>
<p>True, ek - you never can tell. My maternal grandfather, who started smoking at about age 13, died of lung cancer at 67. My paternal grandfather, who started smoking at 11 and never stopped, died at 95 of old age, with healthy lungs. Go figure.</p>
<p>I agree about my mother’s smoking. It really is amazing that she has no health problems.</p>
<p>My brothers and I cannot afford to buy the farm. If we could do that, we wouldn’t be driving vehicles over 10 years old. I have been a single mom for 17 years and am very proud that I have never had to borrow money from anyone. If it means wearing the same five outfits over and over, then I make the sacrifice. </p>
<p>My parents have never sacrificed anything, I don’t think. I really think it has a lot to do with being an only child, which my dad is. And my mom was an “oops” --her nearest sibling is 13 years older–so she was basically raised as an only child… but that’s a whole 'nother story.</p>
<p>Don’t get me wrong, they are great people and would do anything for us kids. I think my brothers may go to them for help from time to time, in exchange for keeping their yard mowed. I don’t resent anything they do for anybody, but I am very worried that they will run out of things to sell and still not learn to live within their means.</p>
<p>Do they have a power of attorney, health care proxy, and/or will? I’m guessing no. But this might be another way to have a financial conversation with them - “Mom and Dad, everyone needs to have these things in place to make sure their wishes are carried out.” It sounds as if they are not thinking beyond today. But they must know seniors whose lives have changed drastically because they need care, which is expensive. </p>
<p>So how much money is the farm draining from your parents income? How much money is the farm worth?</p>
<p>If either parent needs long term care the farm will be the first thing to go. Even if they give it to you now the govt will come knocking if they need care in the next 7 or 10 years that they cannot afford.</p>
<p>If your dad received his inheritance when he was 74, his mother must have had a long life. Your dad needs to be reminded that he could live just as long and needs to be more careful with his money.</p>
<p>In my state the rule is that any assets (real estate, cash, securities, objects) transferred to others at less than market value in the previous 5 years have to be repaid in full prior to applying for any public assistance. And since the cost of a nursing home is about 6K each per month, savings don’t last long. Most of us will need nursing home care.</p>
<p>If your parents decide not to sell the farm outright, they need to set up some sort of trust and hope they are healthy for the next 5 years for there to be much chance your brothers will be able to keep living there for free.</p>
<p>How about your brothers paying rent? if they are expecting your elderly parents to support them, there may be some discussions needed.</p>
<p>Regarding the family farm. It is your father’s to do with as he wishes. It does not matter what his parents intended or you want. The only way for you to keep the family farm is to buy it from him. This is apparently not an option for you. It is good you are not legally obligated to keep the farm and its expenses for upkeep and taxes. You do get to keep your memories. </p>
<p>Parents are as our bad as kids when following our advice. We can’t control them any more than they can control us. Follow the advice given in previous posts to do what you can.</p>
<p>Sounds like a story about the expectations and entitlement by … the offspring of the people who do not manage money well. The farm is the dad’s, and not a permanent free loding for siblings who cannot afford to buy it. The siblings should offer to pay rent and that might reduce the pressure to sell.</p>
<p>Just saying: lately, CC has jumped so often on a few OPs who mingled money, the elderly or deceased and any sort of sharing, in their post. I don’t assume there are nefarious entitlement ideas behind it. If our parents spend it all down, no matter whether it is their “right,” the next phase will depend on us- and not all of us can underwrite our parents’ needs, going forward. We have a right to be concerned.</p>
<p>I worry about my mother, for similar reasons, musicmom. She spends more on groceries each month than I do when the four of us are home. Doesn’t use all that. Won’t order groceries from the very good, less expensive local market, because they have a small delivery fee, so pays much more from a specialty grocer, who delivers free. She buys larger ticket items she thinks she “needs,” which really only benefit the seller. Then complains about small costs, like a taxi or birthday card. </p>
<p>Fortunately, she’s good at the bigger, more complex things like supplemental health insurance (which has served her well, saved far more than the cost.) So, start with the big issues: are they fully covered for medical, including what could go wrong, can they manage their utility costs, home maintenance, etc- and are the documents frazzled mentions taken care of? Are you certain they don’t save anything, in that way many Depression babies do? </p>
<p>If the farm goes, the worry is: what happens with those proceeds? Do they get frittered away? Maybe you get a trusted financial advisor in place, early, to make suggestions. Maybe call it a required annual financial check up or pre-planning related to the sale.</p>
<p>IMO, the farm doesn’t belong to you or your bothers, it belongs to your dad. It’s his to sell if he wants to sell. Maybe he intends to use his assets to live off of and not leave anything behind. That’s his prerogative.</p>
<p>Maybe we x-posted, but I want to say it again: the bigger problem isn’t if his assets make it to his death and nothing is left for the kids. The threat is he and mom outlast their resources. Then, all the talk about how “what’s his is his” is over and done with and the siblings are on the hook. That is the concern, in my view. It’s a common and legit one. Especially when they are now living month-to-month and could manage better.</p>
<p>We faced cashflow issues with my dad towards the end of his life. His biggest asset was his house, which he didn’t want to leave, and we’d already refinanced it to pull out some cash. He wanted to stay in his house, which required attendant care, etc, and the carrying costs of the house were a lot (mortgage, ridiculously high utilities and taxes, etc). I covered his cashflow problems til we were able to get his long term care policy to kick in. </p>
<p>But if you and your sibs cant help with cash shortages and they run out of things to sell, then the farm will have to go, and probably go quickly, which might lead to losing a lot of $ on its value. Then add to it the fact that your sibs will have to find somewhere to live, and if they’ve been living rent free they will be in for a bit of a problem. Oh and is the farm in your dads name or both your parents? If some time passes before it has to be sold and they possibly have age-related cognitive issues between now and then (dementia, stroke, etc) will they be able to sign to sell the property? </p>
<p>It sounds like there is no written directive or POA at this time, which will lead to a boatload of other problems down the road. Agree that this needs to be done ASAP, and especially before anyone can try to claim undue influence if they (ie one of your sibs) doesnt like what your parents decide. Good luck!</p>
<p>“Don’t get me wrong, they are great people and would do anything for us kids.”</p>
<p>This^^^
IMO, you and your brothers need to appeal to them to help you anticipate the future.
You tell them you need them to have wills, POA, advanced directives, etc. so there is no need for bickering among you when it is time for their wishes to be carried out.</p>
<p>Tell them of ‘friends’ who have had strained relationships (and read some of the threads on this subject for lots of material) because the parents’ neglect. Tell them is it the best gift they can give to all of you.</p>
<p>OP here. My concern is not so much about the loss of the farm. It is certainly dad’s prerogative to sell it, although my grandfather wanted it to stay in the family. It is not a financial burden. The taxes are not high, and my brothers keep it mowed and take care of any maintenance. My brothers may even pay the taxes. I don’t know what kind of arrangement they have. My brothers have lived there since before my grandmother died. My concern is that the proceeds from it will just be frittered away in no time flat. Unless they make some changes, they most certainly will outlive their money. </p>
<p>They do have a medical plan to cover what Medicare typically doesn’t, and I know I need to discuss powers of attorney, etc, with them, as well as for myself with my own children.</p>
<p>My mother wants to sell the house and move to an apartment complex for seniors that is government subsidized, but my dad doesn’t. My mother has the idea that they could live there for free. I don’t see how that would be possible because their income, as low as she thinks it is, is really adequate. Plus, any profit from the sale of their house (it is still mortgaged) would not be a large amount and it would be spent in the blink of an eye. If my father dies before she does, she will need the income from the sale of the house more at that time.</p>
<p>I don’t want their stuff. I have always known there would not be any inheritance for us kids, and I am fine with that. But at the rate they are going, they are going to be broke long before they die or need a nursing home, and we kids can’t afford to pay their bills.</p>