<p>BAND…Actually when I googled wow plus addiction, I came across THOUSANDS, yes THOUSANDS of articles. I don’t know how you came across 10. I dont’ need to check my resources because i have come across many many articles that suggest that with regard to WOW, the addiction rate is much higher than typcial games, which does run about 7-10%, Even if it was 10%, of 8 million players, you are still talking 800,000 people possibly addicted!! Thats a HUGE HUGE number, even half of that 400,00 is a huge number and putting it at 5% is very conservative by anyones guess. Bottom line, is there is indeed a huge problem, of course its only natural that those who play it now and spend loads of time doing so, are going to defend it, whether you hold down a job or get straight A’s in your classes at the same time in my humble opinion is irrevelant. I am talking more about the rediculous amounts of time spent sitting inside on a computer for hours on end. In my eyes, I will always see that as social dysfunction and the means to isolating oneself even further. Its an escape, no matter HOW you slice it.
Bandthenhut, your last comment was truly music to my ears…bon voyage!</p>
<p>ctmom - The other day, I asked my daughter, ldgirl, casually about WoW…just wanting a little 19 year old perspective on the addiction aspect of this game and other similar games. Her reaction? Horror. She misunderstood why I was asking and more than mildly freaked out, saying “Omg Mom, ldboy is not playing WoW is he?? Don’t let him do it!!” She was so relieved when I explained I was asking because of this thread and not because her brother was involved in the game. According to her, every person she has ever known who started playing WoW underwent some sort of negative change in personality. She’s a pretty sharp kid without propensity to exaggerate and I take her strong opinion on the issue seriously. </p>
<p>So I think you are not wrong and I wish you strength as you deal with this.</p>
<p>Love how some need to defend WOW so much…kind of like smokers defending smoking…</p>
<p>I was thinking the same thing cgm.</p>
<p>ctmomof3, keep up the good fight!! The biggest mistake I ever made as a parent was allowing gaming into our house. Intense gaming hurt our son physically, socially, and academically. My husband and I had to assert strict controls on gaming and tv, but it was so difficult and exhausting to fight this battle. We eliminated gaming and television from our house for four years and my son hated it. But his grades went from C/Ds to B/Cs. The funny thing was he didn’t do more school work when we eliminated this stuff, but he was so bored he actually started reading extensively and sketching. So good luck to you and your son.</p>
<p>While it is probably true that the data to support a medical diagnosis of game addiction do not (yet?) exist, ctmom has recognized a serious problem in her son and, to her credit, has taken action. It does not matter whether 40% or 0.0001% of WOW players have a problem - her son does. The fact that many people can keep their playing under control, or are not even attracted to the game, is irrelevant to her situation.</p>
<p>Here is an analogy. I am a sugar addict. I only realized this a few years ago, when it became clear to me that if I ingest sugar, I crave more, and I am capable of consuming huge amounts. I happened upon Kathryn DesMaisons’ books on the subject, and recognized myself. I tried (parts of) her program, and learned that if I eliminate sugar completely for several days, I lose the cravings and actually find the idea of eating sweets repulsive. What’s more, when I’m “off” sugar I am in a very pleasant, calm, clear-headed state. I think that only a small minority of the population has a problem with sugar - most people can eat small amounts and stop - but that doesn’t make my problem any less real. Alcohol is a more familiar analogy. Most people, including me, can drink minimally and stop. Alcoholics can’t. The fact that the majority of the population can drink without becoming addicted does not change the situation for the alcoholic.</p>
<p>ctmom: Unless you can provide reliable statistical evidence that shows anything close to a 40% figure, you’re just blowing hot air prompted by your son’s unfortunate failure to control himself.</p>
<p>I used to game a lot. WoW never amused me, so I didn’t play it, but I played Guild Wars, another similar MMORPG. I also played a number of FPS games, a couple at a semi-professional level.</p>
<p>Then I stopped. Got to senior summer/Princeton freshman year, didn’t have time, am playing on a collegiate team, etc. I didn’t have any trouble deciding I didn’t have time for it any more.</p>
<p>Anyways, the point is this: I know tons of gamers. Lots of hardcore gamers. More, I would hazard, than any poster on this forum, and certainly more than you, despite your newfound zeal for this crusade against WoW.</p>
<p>And you know what? WoW is an addictive game. But it’s not that addictive. It’s tough because it is designed so that more time almost directly = more rewards. But lots of games are like that. WoW has become the complaint du jour because it is so much more widely played than any MMORPG before it; none have ever approached it in popularity, and as a result none have ever been analyzed so much.</p>
<p>My extensive experience with gamers who play WoW, running gaming organizations with WoW components, and so forth, brings the following observations:</p>
<p>1) The most serious gamers seem more predicated towards WoW, because it rewards their habits. Thus, there is a predisposition towards more “addictive” behavior, since many players are like that anyways.</p>
<p>2)The game is structured to reward more time playing. This can cause certian addictive tendencies.</p>
<p>3) WoW is on average not significantly more addictive than other games of its ilk. It is, however, far more popular recently. That is the sole and entire cause of the rise in hysteria over it.</p>
<p>Unless you can bring out some peer-reviewed, statistically robust and transparent studies to back you, we’re battling with anecdotes.</p>
<p>And with all due respect, my anecdotes are better than yours. I have more, spread over a larger time period, and reflective of far more different aspects of the gaming population. Your single anecdote is touching, and your tone is shrill and insistent, but the substance of your argument essentially ends there (except for a constant reference to the now cultural mass hysteria over WoW).</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>More like defending vaccines against a crusade by a single parent whose child developed autism.</p>
<p>BandTenHunt and others: Do you really think you’re helping the OP here and contributing valuable advice or support? This is a mother coming to the Parents Forum for advice about her son. It’s one thing to say that in your personal experience the game isn’t addictive and still be polite and give helpful advice about her situation, but debating the addictiveness-level of the game isn’t valuable or helpful for the OP–who has been looking for advice about her son. Let’s try to give useful advice and support, or at the very least be considerate (i.e., BTH, not calling her a “crazy lady”). </p>
<p>I really can’t believe how this thread has changed. This is such an obvious example of a desperate and well-meaning mother trying to do the best thing possible for her son. The first pages of this thread were wonderfully helpful to the OP–you can even read through her posts to see her sharing her son’s progress and giving thanks to CC posters.</p>
<p>With all due respect, the quote of 40% comes from a clinician who is no slacker. She is Dr. Maressa Orzack, a clinical psychologist whose private practice now deals nearly exclusively with patients with WOW and other computer addictions. She is the founder and coordinator of Computer Addiction Services at McLean Hospital in Newton, Mass., and is also an assistant clinical professor in the Dept of Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School. Yeah, THAT Harvard.
</p>
<p>While Dr. Orzack does not have evidence-based published studies in peer review journals to back up the 40% at this point in time, her experience is more than “an anecdote.” It appears she has years and years (15+) of experience treating patients whose lives and the lives of those close to them have been severely affected by their computer/internet/gaming compulsions. I would venture to say that even a figure of 4% represents a very significant number.</p>
<p>CTmomof3, you are doing admirably well under the circumstances. There is a board or two for family/friends of gamers with addictive behaviors. Have you found them?</p>
<p>sunnyflorida: I somewhat agree, but a doctor whose practice deals solely with the worst cases of gaming addiction is bound to develop a worldview based on selection bias. That’s why I wanted an objective statistical study, because even though Dr. Orzack may be an accomplished clinician, the inherent bias in her life means that unless she has objective evidence, I treat (and will continue to treat) her “findings” with a grain of salt.</p>
<p>For the record, I actively try to stop my friends from playing WoW. It is no doubt addictive, but for different people in different amounts.</p>
<p>corranged: Yes. And I would not have jumped in, had the OP not started making baseless claims about various games with which she has had little experience, which are in direct contradiction to the experience I have accumulated over years of administering and interacting daily with gamers playing them.</p>
<p>ctmom: Unless you can provide reliable statistical evidence that shows anything close to a 40% figure, you’re just blowing hot air prompted by your son’s unfortunate failure to control himself.</p>
<p>10f42, hot air? I think not. You don’t’ have to be a brain surgeon to acknowledge that is not only a problem but a HUGE problem. I would be happy to forward links with fact based statistical evidence of the fast growing numbers of cases that are considered “addictions” akin to drug or alcohol addictions, which are as serious. You are one of the lucky ones, if it had not impact on your social or academic being. However through my recent and extensive probing into the world of gaming, I have met with and talked with countless other families whose kids or spouses have actually gone through the same thing, and its staggering to say the least. One story is as sad as the next. There is no coincidence that WOW is the one everyone incessantly talks about as being the single most addictive game. My gosh, when you search it on a search engine, you could spend the next 6 months reading the endless number of articles on the subject alone. Furthermore, to dismiss my comments and blurbs taken out of context, is short sighted on your part, NO ONE has to take my word for it. Just google WOW and addiction and read on to satisfy any lingering doubts. I have spoken to Dr. James Scully who was on CBS news a few weeks ago, who has headed up a panel of distinguished experts in the field to determine if in fact video game addiction is actually a diagnosis/medical disorder. They so far have determined that at least 5 million of the kids who play these games are considered “addicts,” and that is just the start. They cite WOW as the first most addicting game followed by everquest. This doesn’t start because of one parent like myself, who has an isolated case with her son, but it starts because this is happening en masse, and yes the numbers are HUGE. The side effects are practically crippling, social isolation, weight loss, lack of interest in meals, lack of outside contact, loss of interest in previous hobbies/sports,etc…Its brilliantly designed to ease you in gently with a very gradual learning curve. 3 hours seems like nothing, then it turns into 5, then you say I will do that paper tomorrow night, one night won’t hurt, then the next night comes, and you put it off again and pretty soon, everything is being pushed to the side, this game has gotten hold of you and there is no end in sight. BLIZZARD even says to play it sparingly recognizing the addictive nature of the game, and with no real “end” they are pure genius. They suck you in and you are there for the long haul. Again not everyone, I recognize that there are a fair number who can play this and move on after a certain number of hours to do more productive things, but you are increasingly appearing to be the minority.
The facts are that, there is a huge growing online community of WOW addicts, all you need to do is google it and see just what I mean. That really says it all. Blizzard is fending off hundreds of lawsuits all the while, still planning on introducing more MMO’s. I do not dramatize the word crisis, I do believe that there is indeed a crisis taking place. You can read about grown men losing their jobs, their families leaving them, teens dropping out of school, grades plummeting, relationships/friendships fizzling out, it is so sad.
China has recently imposed a national crackdown on video game playing, with over 30 million online gamers it there has practically become a national epidemic. Again there are so many articles to show you what is going on, don’t take my word for it, just search and read. Three hours is the cutoff time for them to impose getting off the game and doing physical activity. Anyone who plays WOW will tell you that you have to play a minimum 20 hours a week but that most hard-core gamers play upwards of 35 hours a week, those numbers suggest that there are A LOT of kids in trouble.
Look, for those that can manage the game without any interference on their everyday life, kudos to you. I know that this is a multi billion dollar industry, that the gaming world will fight to their death to defend the unconscionable games that they have produced. This I sadly recognize is not going anywhere fast. I also know though that knowledge is power, I wish I had known about the seriousness of this game prior to allowing him to get involved. If I had known I can assure you, it NEVER would have been allowed. I hope I am helping someone else who is in my shoes from a few months ago, perhaps a parent or spouse who has no idea what this is, and is considering allowing it. I hope to spare you the agony that our family has had to live through for the past 4-5 months. Ironically one of the other parents who participated in one of the studies sent me the link below, CNBC did a cover on it and she told me that her husband had started then her son and now she has lost both of them. How sad is that, if that is not one example of the degree to which this can wreak havoc on one’s life, I don’t’ know what is.</p>
<p>[Game</a> widows grieve âlostâ spouses - Games - MSNBC.com](<a href=“http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20397322/]Game”>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20397322/)</p>
<p>On my front, which is basically how this thread started, we take it one day at a time, the computer is out of his room, we cannot trust him right now. He knows the game is never going to be welcome here ever again. We are encouraging him to get back into some of his past interests and hope that with time he will realize how good he felt about himself back then, I know things take time and we are here waiting patiently to help him get back to the kid he once was. Thanks to all of you above, for your continued interest and support, it really gives me strength and keeps my determination going strong.</p>
<p>ctmomof3</p>
<p>I just wanted to say that I know what you’re going through and how hard it can be on the whole family. A close relative who lives in Montreal has a son with a computer game addiction. Up there they have cyber cafes where people can play games and he’d disappear for days at a time. Dropped out of school a couple of years ago and hasn’t gone back. Fortunately for you, you have the option of getting the computer out of your son’s room - my relative didn’t have that option. When you have a person close to you with an addiction you come to truly understand the meaning of ‘one day at a time.’ It’s painful to see how something that can be used and controlled by some people can be life-changing to others.</p>
<p>andi, sorry to hear about that, wow days at a time and dropping out of school is serious. How old is he/she? It is just heart wrenching, I would like to think we have seen the worst, and are now on a slow but steady upward climb towards “normal”. It is quite incredible what a single game can do to warping the minds of a young and vulnerable teen. I wish your family the best of luck and may things look up for us all in the new year!</p>
<p>ctmom: Even the GamerWidows, the support group who are composed of people whose spouses or significant others have more or less abandoned them for WoW or other games, do not claim that the “majority” of gamers who play WoW are addicted.</p>
<p>That claim is spurious, backed by nothing but your insistence, and a growing hysteria based on little more than lemming-like outrage. If you can provide ANY reliable statistics that show that a majority of players are addicted, I’ll give the idea time, but until then the claim has absolutely no credibility. This lack of credibility is enhanced by the fact that I know about 1000 times more hardcore gamers than you do, which gives me a large sample base to work from for anecdotes.</p>
<p>Remember, I never said WoW wasn’t addictive. It obviously is. But so are all other MMORPGs like it. The difference is that WoW has so many more players at this point in time that it’s that much more in the public consciousness; if I asked any given person on the street to name 10 different MMOs that their friends play, they could probably only name WoW, maybe GuildWars, maybe EQ2. That’s it. Whereas I could easily name at least 10, probably far more.</p>
<p>I’ve only barely been following this thread, but have any of you taken a look at statistics from the Entertainment Software Association? It’s from 2005 and only covers the US, but I assume that the numbers haven’t changed drastically. Here are some interesting points:</p>
<ul>
<li>75% of heads of households play games.</li>
<li>WoW was ranked #3 in the top selling games of 2004, under The Sims 2 (#1) and Doom 3.</li>
<li>On average, gamers spend 6.8 hours a week on games and 23.4 hours a week on other activities, such as reading, going out, exercising, playing sports, etc.</li>
<li>Out of all of the most frequently played online games, 9.1% pertain to persistent multi-player universes.</li>
</ul>
<p><a href=“http://www.theesa.com/files/2005EssentialFacts.pdf[/url]”>http://www.theesa.com/files/2005EssentialFacts.pdf</a></p>
<p>However, even if the OP’s son is in the minority, it doesn’t mean that he and other addicts don’t have a problem. It’s good that the OP is doing something about her son’s problem and others should be encouraged to do so as well - millions of people get professional help about that every day!</p>
<p>In my experience, I used to be a rather heavy gamer. I would stay up all night (even on weeknights) and game with friends yet I somehow got all of my work done. I think that the biggest problem that I incurred in my gaming was that I sometimes neglected chores and delayed on homework, but I eventually got everything done. I decided to quit cold turkey and every once in a while would love to play again, but it really isn’t a problem for me. Compared to now, my grades and social life are about the same as when I used to game.</p>
<p>I’ve met tons and tons of people who game, some do it pretty heavily but mostly in their spare time. For most people it’s just a great way to relax and destress with some friends. I know that when I used to game, I was under some heavy stress and saw gaming as a great release. Gaming has so many advantages and it is unfortunate that the people who do get addicted and sucked into it give it such a bad rep.</p>
<p>10f42, I am not here to prove anything to you, so please make no mistake. I do not back down from what I have said, I firmly believe that this will soon, reach an “epidemic” level. When you are talking about 8-9 million players worldwide, and estimating that on the lowest end, 10% are addicted, and on the highest end, 40% are addicted, you have to figure that somehwere between 80,000-3.5 million players are suffering from true addictive qualities that no doubt are hampering their every day life. If that is not a crisis, then what is? I don’t think I said the majority are addicted and if I did, then first please show me where I said that and if I did, then I was quick to say something that I am sure is not the case. However I do think based on what I have read and been told, that a GREAT deal of those that play this game do exhibit addictive behavior, and in fact are self admittedly addicted to the game, in the sense that they cannot live without participating on some level everyday, for x amount of hours at a time. If it is removed from their ability to play it, they exhibit true and real addictive withdrawals, both physical and emotional, much like what you would see in a drug addict or alcoholic. I have seen it and by no means do I think my son was the hardest core addict that one could fine.
Furthermore, the doctor I spoke to said there are several studies in the works, some of whose results will soon be public knowledge that indicate that in fact game addition is real, and can be coined as being a medical diagnosis much the same that drug and alcohol addicts can be. He said some of the results are startling and much of what goes on in other countries, has not been made easily and readily available public knowledge but will in the coming next year or so and that there is reason for concern, just look at China and its recent crackdown on what they see as a growing problem with their youth, less adults play there than in the U.S.
Like it or not, these are facts and not my overactive imagination. Most if not all of these studies are based on THOUSANDS of players as well, so I feel it fair to say that these studies are more credible than your friendship circle of THOUSANDS of friends who play, and frankly that statement right there immediately loses credibility, because no one I know, even an adult has THOUSANDS of friends, much less who play this nonsense.</p>
<p>silverweed: “Yikes! “Detoxing” seems a bit strong. My kids played WoW for a year or so, then got bored and stopped. While they played, they learned to collaborate with others, combining their talents with other characters to complete quests.”</p>
<p>Most people (about 90% of us) can also drink a bit and stop, or smoke some weed once in a while and go back to highly functional lives. If person is persistently using despite adverse consequences and if their addiction is in such an active state that they cannot (i.e it is not a choice, although it may seem like one) stop, then detox is in order. I have no idea what detox from an online game would look like. </p>
<p>Somehow loved ones need to get between the user and their substance or activity of choice. This needs to happen for long enough that the user’s true self can begin to fight the addict voice in their brain. They then can hear what people are saying to them, and hopefully be able to absorb the vast amount of information they need to learn in order to stay healthy for the rest of their lives.</p>
<p>BTW, there is a negligible difference between the long term outcomes of people forced into treatment versus voluntary admits. That means that people who could do well in recovery aren’t always the ones who wanted to stop using. It is a myth that people have to want to stop in order to do well in treatment.</p>
<p>ctmom He eventually finished high school but hasn’t gone on to college and he turned 20 in September. At the moment he is working away from his home area and supporting himself but I have no idea as to if he’s still gaming or not. Very bright kid. I didn’t see him often as he grew up, but interestingly, I was thinking back to a time he visited our house when he was about 12 and I can remember the other kids being annoyed with him because he logged onto a computer game on our computer and ignored them.</p>
<p>I think what has to be realized, regarding the “addictive nature”, is that these games appeal to teens. Teens are people who are at a time of great insecurity and indecision in their lives. They question their attractiveness, their ability to succeed, their ability to be on their own, everything. And you take an insecure kid, one who already may be either socially awkward, or struggling in school or with their family, or who has issues with their appearance, and you bring in the game. And, “Voila”, I am a superstar, I am a part of a community. </p>
<p>This is what happened to someone in my family whom I love. At one point, he was a 15 year old high school student, living in the suburbs, and he had friends (and I think even a girlfriend at least once). But he had issues with his weight, he had trouble with some of his academics (really could have been dealt with, his writing shows he’s highly intelligent), and he had some issues with the kids at school. The next thing you know, he had dropped out of school at 16 and sat home playing video games. He made an attempt at college at 18, but dropped out after a semester. That was 6 years ago. He’s now 24, no job, no education. And not enough kick in the pants obviously to change a thing about it. It’s horrible to watch. </p>
<p>What could have changed this was if his father had said “You get a job or get out”. or “You go to school or get out” or “That’s it, I’m done paying for these games, etc…” But his father has issues about him ever growing up and ever moving out, so he’s happy to drug him with the video games, keeping him right there. I dread to see what happens when his father dies.</p>