<p>“I can definitely tell you that there IS something wrong for a teenager to be up at 2AM…”</p>
<p>My generation must be well ****ed, then.</p>
<p>xiggi; what does this…
and you won’t believe how one can develop his or her vocabulary and social skills by playing
and this…
the internal social pressures to participate,
mean?
Social and vocabulary skills ? ( I am sometimes intigued by some of the things I hear my son saying and the people he “socializes” with on xbox Live. We do not allow this stuff in bedrooms so I hear ALOT ).
Internal social pressures?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Ever hear of selective perception? [Selective</a> perception - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia](<a href=“http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_perception]Selective”>Selective perception - Wikipedia)</p>
<p>You’re only picking up on the worst cases. According to the BBC there are 9 million WoW subscribers worldwide; your son and the “staggering amount” that you mention comprise at most 1%. Perhaps they had psychological problems to begin with; don’t blame it on the game.</p>
<p>Anecdotes aren’t evidence. Since you’re so willing to supply them, however, I’ll throw mine in: I’ve been a gamer since 3rd grade, and games have only enriched my life and aided my studies.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Try reading the entire sentence again.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Shrink, I never wrote “Social and vocabulary skills” in that order. What I meant is that one can increase his or her vocabulary … and his or her social skills by playing games such as Everquest and WOW. For instance, the Everquest writers loved to incorporate arcane terms and unusual words to describe playing characters or events. Surprisingly, many words that tripped students on the SAT were common fodder for role players. Social skills (and leadership and diplomacy) came from having to make 30 to 50 individuals accepting to play roles that benefit a community. In higher guilds, each one of those individuals typically had very strong personas. </p>
<p>The internal social pressures meant pressure from within the game …pressure brought by other players to keep playing. Most of the games are based on the complementarity of various types of players and groups and guilds need to be formed. </p>
<p>Oh well, I probably should let BTH explain the inner workings of the game. His generation can explain it better. :D</p>
<p>Thank you. This is like “continuing medical education” credit!</p>
<p>Is staying up until 2 AM raiding worse than any other thing teenagers stay up until 2 AM doing?</p>
<p>
Well, I guess it depends on what they are raiding… ;)</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Again, I could ask you to read my entire sentence. However, since you are making such an effort not to understand a very simple concept, let me deconstruct it for you. </p>
<p>Here it is: </p>
<p>“And, having done it for years, I can definitely tell you that there IS something wrong for a teenager to be up at 2AM finishing up a raid or playing 5-6 hours during week days.” </p>
<p>And if the sentence was not clear enough, the next one should have made it crystal clear.</p>
<p>“What is wrong is that few people who sleep 3-4 hours a night are doing well in classes the next morning.”</p>
<p>While the mid-level dilettante player or weekend wannabe might have a different experience, playing during week days is what hard-core players do, and late in the night to boot. College students who have different study and sleep patterns are better equipped to survive such a routine than the typical high school student.</p>
<p>Your son is the minority, not myself. 9 million people play or have played WoW. If the average person became obsessively addicted, I think it would be making headlines. </p>
<p>The thing is this game IS MAKING HEADLILNES EVERYWHERE. Just google WOW and addiction and you will be amazed by the thousands of articles and studies that are just now coming out but have long been know in many Asian countries. Again this is highly subjective, but to me, this is just poison in a young kids mind. Vocabulary? Social skills? Interaction? He can get all of those in major doses the old fashioned way, and to me, when it starts replacing real live interaction, it IS a big problem. Bandtenhut, my experiences are not only from having watched my son and his self destruction soley because of this game, but after speaking for hours on end to a famed psychologist who specializes in game addiction, he sent me a whole packet of information which had my jaw dropping, the sheer numbers of addictions and how fast they are growing, really crystalized to me, the impact of this game. It’s great that you were one of the ones that this has not affected to that degree, however you must open your eyes to what it is doing to thousands of teenagers, husbands, wives, etc…this is indeed without a doubt a real problem and a growing one. I hope I can help at least one person or parent not make the same choices that we innocently made five months ago by letting him play, that’s all.</p>
<p>ctmomof3- I give you credit for sticking to your ban. I know how hard it is to stand strong against the strong lobbying our children can do. Also you know your child best and whether others can play the game without a problem is not your concern. You can see your child cannot.
I have seen with my own son who has ADD a really strong obsessive component to his personality. Not quite addictive. When he gets his mind set on something he doesn’t let up. Whether it was wanting to buy a part for his mountain bike or figuring out a way to get around my ban on online poker. With my son it has helped him to work with a professional who has helped him recognize this in himself so that he can try to avoid the pitfalls that come with obsessive thinking.
I think I also mentioned earlier in the thread the suggestion of a NOLS or Outward Bound trip. Though they do teach outdoor skills the goal is so much deeper. I think something of that sort the summer before going off to college might be beneficial.
I think going cold turkey will work as long as he is living at home. But come next fall he will be in a dorm with his own computer and no one watching over him. I know at my son’s college the males in the dorms spend hours playing games. XBox mainly but I am sure there are a large number of WOW players as well. I would be worried for your son in this enviroment if he has not also had some counseling.</p>
<p>Here is a recent, but not the last take on it from the Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry.
[Child</a> and Adolescent Psychiatrists React to AMA Recommendation on Video Games | American Academy of Child & Adolescent Psychiatry](<a href=“http://www.aacap.org/cs/2007_press_releases/child_and_adolescent_psychiatrists_react_to_ama_recommendation_on_video_games]Child”>http://www.aacap.org/cs/2007_press_releases/child_and_adolescent_psychiatrists_react_to_ama_recommendation_on_video_games)</p>
<p>an excerpt;
Washington, D.C., June 28, 2007-- The American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry (AACAP) welcomes the American Medical Association’s recommendation that leaders in the psychiatric community should carefully review current research on video games before potentially defining excessive video gaming as an addiction in the upcoming edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM). The DSM is a manual commonly used by mental health professionals that categorizes psychiatric diagnoses for all mental illnesses. Video game addiction is not listed in the current edition.</p>
<p>Child and adolescent psychiatrists are concerned about children who spend more than 2 hours playing video games each day. Chair of AACAP’s TV and Media Committee, Michael Brody, M.D., said, “This is a type of media where players become a part of the game. However, there is not enough research on whether or not video games are addictive. For many children and adolescents, playing video games is integrated into their lives in a balanced, healthy manner. For others, it displaces physical activity and time spent on studies, with friends, and even with family.”</p>
<p>You may find this interesting:</p>
<p>[Doctor</a> claims 40 percent of World of Warcraft players are addicted](<a href=“Doctor claims 40 percent of World of Warcraft players are addicted | Ars Technica”>Doctor claims 40 percent of World of Warcraft players are addicted | Ars Technica)</p>
<p>There are many many more articles to back up similiar statistics.</p>
<p>ctmom; what do you make of that reference? while I sympathize with you son’s plight, and deal with it professionally and personally, I think you should realize that the Doctor quoted has on financial incentive for identifying a “disorder”</p>
<p>“should be considered to be legitimate mental disorders, and thus be eligible for health insurance.”</p>
<p>So her services get reimbursed but overall, mental health benefits are more closely scrutinized and disallowed more frequently than ever. </p>
<p>Also, many would disagree about labeling something a “disorder” if it occurs in almost half the population ( i.e 2 year olds having temper tantrums). This figure is half of a specific population so that might make it different. I think the AACAP’s concern is that there is no need to create a NEW diagnosis, when something else, already well studied and understood, is more important.</p>
<p>I’d be especially interested in links to article’s fpm “peer reviewed” journals.</p>
<p>Not to beat a dead horse, but another link/story I think is very enlightening coming from an ex addict/bigtime player of WOW: (Sad at the same time)</p>
<p>[Soul</a> Kerfuffle: The View From the Top](<a href=“http://soulkerfuffle.blogspot.com/2006/10/view-from-top.html]Soul”>Soul Kerfuffle: The View From the Top)</p>
<p>What I make of that reference is whether her numbers are skewed or not, there is increasing and abundant recognition WORLDWIDE that this is a growing and frightening problem plaguing not only our youth but grown men and women as well. Having lived it firsthand, I have seen what a few short months of playing this can do. There is a reason that there are literally THOUSANDS of articles talking about “detoxing” from WOW, and the endless sad heartbreaking stories, about kids who failed in school, dropped out of college, broke up marriages and relationships, because of THIS GAME. Where there is fuel there is fire. Guily by association. NOTHING will make me think this is a harmless well meaning game. If I really wanted to go out on a limb I would venture to say this is China’s contribution/conspiracy to dumbing down America, to creating this chaos that is affecting hundreds of thousands of people if not millions.</p>
<p>Yikes! “Detoxing” seems a bit strong. My kids played WoW for a year or so, then got bored and stopped. While they played, they learned to collaborate with others, combining their talents with other characters to complete quests. I thought it helped teach some problem-solving skills. I would rather have them play such a game for three hours than spend the same amount of time passively watching television. </p>
<p>Of course, they also encountered people in the game who would say “I’ve been playing for 16 hours straight”. People with addictive behaviors will find another poison if you take one away, IMHO. Check out denizens of Everquest, Guild Wars, Star Wars online games, Guitar Hero, Halo, Pogo, Online Poker, etc.</p>
<p>I remember some of the longer gaming sessions took forever as people waited around for all the team members to show up. It might help if games like WoW would impose time constraints (say, a max of 2 hours) for completing a quest or raid.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You should check your sources more carefully. Did you even read the article? It concludes entirely the opposite way (more on that later).</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Dr. Orzack, who came up with the number, runs a “Computer Addiction Service”, and so has a financial incentive to exaggerate addiction figures so more parents like you will go to him.</p></li>
<li><p>She concedes in an email that the 40% figure comes from a forum. Perhaps she took a poll of a forum of recovering addicted WoW users? LMAO</p></li>
<li><p>She further refuses to disclose her methodology, making this less than a legitimate study.</p></li>
<li><p>Dr. Orzac then concedes that “5 to 10 percent which is standard for most addictive behaviors,” not 40%.</p></li>
<li><p>You’re only finding the articles which conclude your way- cross-reference my earlier post about selective perception.</p></li>
<li><p>Back to what I said about checking your sources and the article concluding the other way:</p></li>
</ol>
<p>The article concludes: “But in my opinion, the answer to these issues is not to simply label them as addictions and blame the activity itself, or to get the pharmaceutical companies all excited about more new products that they can push on the general population. The solution is to promote greater awareness about the necessity of balance in our lives. That, perhaps, is the greatest variable ratio reward of all.” </p>
<ul>
<li>please read your sources before you post more</li>
</ul>
<p>The article, for those who didn’t read it the first time ctmomof3 posted it: [Doctor</a> claims 40 percent of World of Warcraft players are addicted](<a href=“Doctor claims 40 percent of World of Warcraft players are addicted | Ars Technica”>Doctor claims 40 percent of World of Warcraft players are addicted | Ars Technica)</p>
<p>Results on Google News for World of Warcraft: 2059</p>
<p>Results on Google News for World of Warcraft + Addiction: 15</p>
<p>CNN has one article on MMORPG addiction… from 2 years ago. Where are the thousands of articles? There are websites and forums, yes. Most of them are for-profit and run advertisements. There is no genuine medical analysis. My point about headlines is that if you were right and more than half of WoW players are addicts, the number of WoW addicts in America would be about 1/3 the number of alcohol or gambling addicts. There would be a public outcry. There isn’t one.</p>
<p>Although I am sorry for your family’s experience, but… “If I really wanted to go out on a limb I would venture to say this is China’s contribution/conspiracy to dumbing down America, to creating this chaos that is affecting hundreds of thousands of people if not millions.”</p>
<p>You’re kind of a crazy lady. As well as willfully ignorant to actual facts. Where the hell does China come in to this? WoW was programmed and created in California by a company owned by a French firm. China!?!? You know NOTHING about this game. You obviously never even read that article before you posted it as proof of your claims, which it isn’t.</p>
<p>I am never returning to this very messed up thread.</p>
<p>BTH, is there no way you can see a way or a need to be helpful? Or maybe you think your being helpful, IDK.</p>