IME how the confrontation is done account for oodles of the reaction.
If someone challenges a statement in a fighting way, the original person can very well escalate the fight and feel they are defending themselves. There’s an instant negative reaction to the challenger and no minds are ever really changed. Actions might be pending consequences, but nothing in the mind is changed. In the future the same person can even bait the other because it ends up being “fun” to a fighter. The original person can attract a crowd who otherwise might not have supported them because it’s now more or less a game.
If the challenge is made in a non-threatening way (often humor does this, but so can the playing dumb idea mentioned in a previous post), then there can be seeds planted for questioning what is actually going on - opening minds. Sometimes a true dialogue can happen rather than any sort of angry debate, but sometimes it’s just the seed that is planted and time will tell if it grows.
Angry confrontation gets nowhere and is pretty much worthless as it cements views rather than changing them. Decent confrontation can work - or not - but it’s worth a try.
Often the generation I work with the most - high schoolers - can be very open to solid reasoning. Their developing brain can develop empathy or just adopt the reasons. Their parents can be more set in their ways. I’ve been known to use the phrase, “I thought your generation was fixing the wrongs of mine” successfully. I’ve seen kids (in my class) who were bullying/being bullied become best friends and lab partners (their choice) once minds are opened. It warms my heart more than an A on a test.
I’m still of the solid belief that it’s worth trying (correctly) - even with adults. The worst that can happen is one fails.
This is, of course, situation dependent. When one has a solid reason to fear for their life, then no, but the situation in the OP wasn’t one of those.
All very good points, @Creekland. Sometimes there can be a fine line between humor and sarcasm, with the response being quite different. I happen to think sarcasm can be witty, but it isn’t always appreciated, shall we say…
Back to the initial question, don’t know all the details (state of mind, general demeanor of a person saying such a thing) about the person making the offensive comment, but aside from thinking about a snappy comment like “do you kiss your mother with that mouth?”, the approach might be to do what is encouraged here on this site- bring it up to someone in authority and let them address it. Any response could be seen as antagonistic and could lead to a confrontation. Hopefully not, but …
@IvyGrad09
But how do you know the woman was Protestant? Might she have been Catholic, Jewish, Atheist, Mennonite? The way your post was written and your assumption that this woman led a privileged life felt like you were stereotyping her, which makes some of your other very valid arguments lose impact. Not trying to bait you at all. Just pointing out a contradiction.
@IvyGrad09: Judging by your prior long post in this thread, it seems as though you travel through life looking for a fight.
What if your assumptions are wrong ?
Even if your assumptions are correct, maybe another perspective is worthy of consideration or a better tolerance of different cultural values is warranted. And I am not talking about extreme or obvious actions, but about your assumptions about others. For example, do you have preconceived notions about a white male dressed in a polo shirt & khakis ? Or about a woman wearing a head covering ?
In my opinion, it is better to get to know & try to understand others who are different rather than to hold preconceived notions about how & what & why they think, act or dress differently than I do.
@jym626 Who has “authority” besides us? This isn’t a kid’s group. I think adults should call out other adults on openly racist behavior. Which side are you on? I don’t think being silent is an option these days. Sure, if I thought the other person had a weapon, I might think twice. But that doesn’t sound like the situation here.
@intparent, at the risk of, hypothetically, discussing moderation, the analogy I was giving is that when someone here does something out of line, it can be reported to those who can address it rather than getting into a debate here. Its not a matter of being on a “side”. Its a discussion where there are several variables to be considered, and there are circumstances where one may choose to speak out, and others where they wouldn’t. I gave the example upthread where my DH almost got assaulted for lightly tapping the hood of a truck that drove into the sidewalk and almost knocked us over to let him know we were pedestrians on the sidewalk. He either didn’t see us, or didn’t care. But the reaction was waaaay over the top.
Its not an equal analogy, but an example of how someone might overreact to a fairly benign response. In the climbing gym situation, why not consider letting the managers deal with it and toss the jerk out for offending other customers.
The mods here have a track record and authority I don’t think you can depend on at a rock climbing place. I’d rather tackle the issue immediately and head-on than involve a employee who could be a clueless kid who doesn’t feel they can take action without having heard the comment.
Does anyone else hear still have a safety pin attached to their jacket?
Sometimes what a person claims they would do in a situation, and what they would actually do IRL may not be the same. I tend to be one to speak up, but measure each situation individually. And why assume a manager wouldn’t do their job? The manager is the one in a position of authority. Who says the manager is a “clueless kid”? There are policies about what is permitted in private establishments. Hopefully it addresses inappropriate language or behavior.
But I do think that’s why it’s helpful to have a stock response to situations like this. There’s no way I would have come up with a witty response on the spot but I do think I could come up with a simple “Wow, that sounds racist.”
@IvyGrad09 I am an African-American male, and maybe the offender did not want to listen to what I had to say, but I see that person around as our kids are the same age and went to the same schools. He would have had a hard time avoiding me forever. I wasn’t aggressive in any way, but we just had a little chat. I don’t think that the offender was “racist” in the purest sense, but what I would call “unaware” and it was addressed man to man and calmly from my end.
A smart alek response will probably not end well. But as @ChangeTheGame said, if you are choosing to address the situation, do so in a measured way. When they go low, go high. (Now again, I’d be tempted to be a wiseguy, so would really have to be careful not to say what I was thinking).
@Sue22 and @intparent - would you go up to the person and confront them directly and say something or would you just respond aloud in general… loud enough for them to hear. (with something akin to “did I really just hear that?” or “wow that was out of line” or “wow, didnt expect to hear a racial comment like that here”).
I’d look at them when I said it. Probably wouldn’t walk closer. But if I could hear them, I’m sure they could hear me. And honestly… I think those that wouldn’t say anything in this particular situation are cowards. Or racists themselves…
Whoa that’s a really unsupported statement. So you’d just say it loud enough to be heard but not go up to the person and address them directly. Yet are calling others cowards/racists (including the OP, who didn’t say anything). Ouch.
@intparent I won’t go as far to call someone a coward (I can see some of my family members not being able to control their emotions in a similar situation) and the best thing to do in that case is to go in the opposite direction instead of causing a scene that gets them arrested. Not everyone is wired to speak up so those of us who will speak up should do so but not at risk of getting hurt or getting in legal trouble.
And to suggest that anyone who might not respond the way one thinks/claims that they would is thereby a coward or a racist (or both) … well that’s not very open-minded. In fact, its pretty offensive. Unless perhaps you are being inflammatory to make some sort of point (like trying to get someone here to call you a name). Even so… ouch… Guess everyone who is timid or shy or conflict-avoidant or an introvert or who might turn to an authority to address it is a racist coward. @-) Boy this thread sure has gone off the rails.
