and may be why i have one - from living there.
I have both brokerage and my home in a trust - so 95% of my non-retirement stuff, it not more.
Once we figure out where we are moving (if we are moving), we’ll dig in.
It’s really a gray area.
I did recently attend a dinner for a money manager - but it was more about having enough income in retirement - and back door IRAs - which best I can tell is just an IRA reclass to Roth - which, for me, anyway, makes zero sense.
Don’t forget a Will with a pour-over-to-Trust provision, which essentially says, ‘anything I forgot to put into the Trust shoudl be put into the Trust by the Trustee’.
Maybe I shouldn’t find someone to hire and hire you instead!!!
Or (as in our case) a branch suddenly has very limited hours. We were able to get in with an appointment–someone met us at the bank branch to open up and give access. Didn’t hurt that they all knew my dad personally (and us by default).
Banking note: show your face once in a while so they know who you are…
Our paperwork is at home in a fireproof strongbox. Probably would not be a bad idea to have a pdf-scan or photo of healthcare proxy for spouses and parents on phone.
Each of our kids has a copy of this paperwork for us…which we told them to put with their important documents, and we have a copy, and our lawyer has a copy.
I think our CFP has a copy of our wills…but he doesn’t need things like the health care directives.
Storing pdf copies on the cloud ? No idea if feasible.
I wanted to learn more about my dad’s financial affairs, since I will be the executor (my sister is named as a co-executor but she is fine with it being just me). I suggested we have a Zoom meeting with Dad’s bookkeeper, who is awesome. Dad was hesitant. I really think he’s in denial and thinks he’s going to live forever. He finally agreed, and we just had the meeting this past Saturday. The bookkeeper wrote up a great list of all his investments, insurance policies, financial advisor, attorney, etc.
She really wants him to rewrite his will, but I’m not going to push, because I’m afraid he would change it and leave lots of money to his beyond-fundamentalist church (one cup for communion, no Sunday School, no divorce and remarriage, no musical instruments branch of the Church of Christ). A few years ago, he told my sister and me that after his death, he wanted us to give money to that church annually. We emphatically said no to that idea. “Dad, what if the congregation gets a musical instrument or has women leaders? You would not approve of that, so what would we do?” I suggested he set up a trust that distributed money to the church and he just growled, “I’m not going to do that.” Fine, but I won’t give a penny to that idiocy. Look up the reddit forum “excoc” if you want to see how bad it was for many of us.
Why? I’m not advocating for this, but lots of things are stored this way.
Not sure if a copied signature would be etc.
No clue. Just a thought as people are mentioning safe boxes etc. ours is in a binder on the shelf. Not fire resistant …
As a Trustee, I was never asked for the orginals with real ink signatures. I just gave all the brokerages a pdf copy.
edited to add: most did require an original certified copy of the death cert, so order a bunch of extras.
So a good idea :). Just wondering. Then in theory all the boxes and banks would have a better level of protection - if encrypted.
As we know today nothing is secure.
The key ingredient is that the people who will NEED any documents…have access to those documents or have copies. We have emphasized that to my MIL numerous times. We have the POA which names DH. We hope the other documents are accessible to whomever will need them. And that those arrangements were made several years ago…because MIL is not able to make them now.
It’s called…plan ahead.
My own mother did not plan ahead. And refused to discuss much of anything. I knew where her will was, and I knew where all of her accounts were, and insurance, and the like. BUT she was unable to make any decisions on her own…and I had to do an involuntary conservatorship. It was THE hardest thing I’ve ever had to do in my life…emotionally. But my lawyer said…it had to be done or no one could make any decisions for my mom.
Please please, get very hard NOT to put things off until they are too late. That’s what happened with me…even though I tried.
It is important to know about all accounts. When everything was snail mail, within a 3 month quarter you could see evidence of all accounts. Now with online accounts it is more important than ever for parents (and selves) to have good records… and share them.
Something that bothers me is that there seems to be no registry of POA designations. Anybody who shows a POA is assumed valid appointee even if a newer one exists. Though upthread I was dubious about the need to destroy old wills, it would be critical to destroy the old POA if you write a new one assigning somebody else.
For those who have parents and they have these documents, I recommend getting them a fireproof safe for the next holiday. I got them for both kids last Christmas and one daughter was very excited as she was moving from college to a new home. I had put a lot of her documents into hers, like birth and baptism certificates, some school papers, old passports. But she immediately added her thesis that she was still working on, diplomas, etc. She liked it because as she was driving to her new home she could just grab the box from the car and take it into the hotel for the night. It was about the size of a banker’s box and not heavy.
If my mother was still alive, I’d have her go through documents (which I’ve had to do) and put them all together into a box like this. Around here, a lot of people just had to evacuate because of fires, and they’ve only been home a few days and have to evacuate again because of possible flooding (can’t win). Grabbing a box like this would be so easy rather than trying to think “where are the prescriptions? Where is the pet certificate? Passports? Important phone numbers?”
Parents who aren’t wanting to think about gathering the papers might be able to be convinced if even the kids were given the same gift and everyone agreed to ‘make a box.’ NOt just for the old people but for everyone.
Not to worry; many financial institutions refuse to accept them unless done on their own special form, if at all. See the stories at Finding out your Power of Attorney is useless - Bogleheads.org or the NYT article at https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/10/health/finding-out-your-power-of-attorney-is-powerless.html?unlocked_article_code=1.BU4.FFbS.pR1vUSiW8zb-&smid=url-share (gifted article) From what I’ve read Wells Fargo is particularly notorious for this.
This is one reason why having significant assets like investment accounts in a revocable trust can be useful. A trust contains rules for when a successor trustee takes over from the original trustee such as death or incapacity. A child can show a bank or brokerage that they are now the successor trustee of their parents’ account and get control.
To be fair, though, I can see why banks don’t want to accept a POA. A person they’ve never seen before shows up, waves a piece of paper, and says now I control the assets. The bank can’t ask the owner if that’s ok if they’re incapacitated, yet if the POA is phony the bank is on the hook. By contrast when you setup a trust account you must give them a Certification of Trust that says who the trustees and successor trustees are and the rules of succession, their legal dept can review it before the account is established. Banks are probably on much firmer ground if they’re just following terms their depositor already set up and never revoked.
Don’t forget cars, either. Transferring the title after death so it can be sold is a huge headache here in my state.
It’s not hard in Florida. The car title is easily transferable after death through the DMV. I can’t remember all the reasons but one is because of the huge volume. One of the few things made easier.
In Tennessee, financial POAs and revocations of POAs may be recorded with the county Register of Deeds:
"(2) All powers of attorney authorizing the sale, transfer, or conveyance of real or personal estate, or for any other purpose, or appointing an agent to transact any business whatever;
(3) All revocations of powers of attorney; . . . "
Tenn. Code Ann. sec. 66-24-101 (a). Once the documents are recorded, they are deemed to be “notice to the world.”
I imagine that the other States may have similar statutes. It certainly isn’t perfect, but it is at least some place to check.