If it’s been 20 years since a will or trust was carefully reviewed…that’s a LONG time. 20 years ago, my in-laws were of sound mind and body. One is now no longer alive and the other one has advanced dementia. At this point, we just need to HOPE that everything is properly done.
Even though we declined to be part of the irrevocable trust MIL set up for her family cottage (that’s a whole other thread), we do have a copy of that trust though heaven only knows why. DH isn’t included. But the will? Who knows. AFAIK there isn’t a trust for anything else. But all bank accounts are jointly owned by at least one sibling, and all accounts that can be have beneficiaries designated by MIL.
For us, it’s a whatever situation.
Anyone want a mahogany grandfathers clock? It’s an antique and huge. MIL says we are getting that. We don’t want it. And we won’t remove it from her house either.
Anyone named trustee of your trust can decline to serve for any reason (or no reason). I have one seriously affluent friend who has churned through several cousins and is now stuck with her bank as trustee. She’s a control freak and nobody who knows her well wants to be dealing with her now (constant changes as her whims dictate) or beyond the grave.
Yep. This happened to my cousins. Aunt died at 60, uncle remarried and changed will then died 2 years later. He was married to my aunt for 40 years, high school sweethearts. 2nd wife got everything aunt and uncle worked for and left their 3 kids, 4 grands with nothing.
There are ways to in theory avoid this, at least in part. Many trusts are set up so that upon the death of one spouse, the trust splits and half goes directly to the heirs and the other half to the surviving spouse. There obviously needs to be enough assets for the surviving spouse.
The other way to do it, which used to be more common when interest rates were consistently higher, was to set up the trust so that the surviving spouse lives on the interest/dividends of the trust and the trust dissolves upon her/his death. My husband’s grandfather had this kind of trust where his wife (my husband’s grandmother) lived on the interest and then the trust dissolved when she died. The only issue was that interest rates got very low and she did have to request extra money from the executor at times.
Finally, my parents have a legacy trust where the executor continues to manage the money after their deaths. I think they did it this way because they don’t care for my BIL. The trust dissolves upon my sibling and I’s death, and goes to our children.
My sibling had children with a second partner, so my parents’ grandchildren range in age from 6 to 38. When this bonus set were safely delivered, my dad went back to the lawyer and had the wills redrawn so they were also bequeathed what their elder cousins had been in the previous will.
We just had our own wills updated, and updated our beneficiaries on accounts as well. I think updating – even if it is to simply get the documents out and reacquaint yourself with them — is a good idea.
Old wills can sometimes have old language that isn’t relevant any longer. Our older wills were very simply worded…but really didn’t convey much in terms of who, and what very clearly. Our new wills are much more lengthy but also more thorough.
My husband is one of six kids. Luckily, everyone is very solvent. There are 11 grandchildren ranging in age from 23 to 45. One is still in grad school. Everyone else has jobs, but some are better off financially than others. And one family has three of these grands while the rest have two. One sibling has no children.
Who knows if my in-laws set this up to cover all scenerios.
Absolutely. And since we’re on a college board, a good time to update is when your kids are legal adults. A lot of the guardian stuff isn’t relevant any more but you may want to think about how they would handle your estate at 18 or 21yrs old etc.
One thing that some people I know did is when their first child turned 18, they updated their trust so that the 18yr old would get custody of her younger brothers while a trustee would manage the money. They didn’t trust the guardians they initially had in place.
Dad was very much a take care of each of us in the way that made sense; Mom is still very much a everything should be equal, no matter what. So their compromise was (during every Christmas estate meeting and update) to have the wills divide everything absolutely equally amongst their children – and then we have been/were instructed to do what seemed most fair and most kind for any obvious needs.
For example, the family owns a generational camp in New England through a legal doodad. My father worried that it would become a burden if something catastrophic happened to one of us, grands, greats… we told him that if that happened, we would just sell it and give whatever was needed to whoever was in crisis. Made him feel better, but required a lot of conversation. That’s lots easier to do when the elders are only in their late 60’s, impossible in their 80’s.
I disagree that it disappears. It may be hard to locate especially if the box renter ignores notices that the branch is closing and the safety deposit boxes are being moved to XXX, but federal regulations are pretty strict about it. There are state chartered banks and they’d have their own rules.
I worked for the FDIC closed banks branch and when we closed or sold a bank, one of the teams was safety deposit boxes and how to transfer them or notify the renters.
But no, don’t keep documents you may need in a bank. Buy a fireproof safe and put everything in there. I never understand why people put passports in deposit boxes in a bank. That’s so inconvenient for a document you could be using all the time.
And your family situation is going to be different than it was 20 years ago – you will have children who have reached the age of majority and so don’t need a guardian while they are minors; you will likely have a better idea of how you might want to divide assets among beneficiaries; etc. Definitely get that puppy updated! (And update any POAs, and a living will if you have one!)
@gandalf78 we had everything updated about a year ago.
But there are folks who did their original will when their kids were preschoolers…a LONG time ago. Those need to be reviewed.
And let’s face it, we all have a better sense of our own assets and how we would like to see them go when we are no longer alive.
I will say, our new wills were written to cover contingencies like grand kids, divorces, marriages, etc. Everyone needs to consider all options. I know an estate planning lawyer costs some money, but in my opinion…this is not a DIY thing off the internet.
This thread is about advising elders, but I’ll add, we have advised both of our kids to have wills, health care directives, POA, etc …we hope they listened!
@thumper1 – I apologize for the confusion; I meant to reply to @tsbna44. But yes, everyone needs to update periodically; I am currently on the third iteration of my LWT and my POAs.
Much like @thumper1’s original post, our experience in this area is quite different between my family of origin and H’s. Both of our fathers passed away the same year several years ago. Watching how our mothers have then handled finances in general and estate planning in particular has been fascinating.
I’m an only child of a mother who got very buttoned up and vocal about her needs, desires and plans. The simplicity of her wishes helps: “it’s all going to you so let’s make it easy on you to get it”. And she also had her own experience as an Executor of a complicated estate and so has done everything she can to not put anyone else (me) in that position.
My H is the middle of 3 and pulling info from his mom is incredibly challenging. While some plans were put into place right after her husband died, since then it’s been a bit of a “tomorrow and tomorrow and tomorrow” attitude. And my H will end up with the problem in the end. He was always labeled the financially-minded one of the three and she’s named him Executor. Which puts a burden on him and, at the same time, manages to insult the other two who are now grown adults managing life very well. She has no sense how complicated this could get (her house is now owned equally by the 3 children, there are stocks involved that 1 of the 3 doesn’t know about, and she does nothing electronically. if it’s not written on a piece of paper somewhere in her home, it doesn’t exist). The only saving grace in this will be that–right now–these are 3 good, caring adults who respect one another. But life is weird and I’ve seen estate realities do strange things to families.
I wish she was willing to do some work to save her kids headache and heartache in the future. She doesn’t have to, of course, but I sure wish she would.
That is incorrect. Anything can be challenged, even if the document says, ‘if my neer-do-well kid challenges this document, their inheritance goes to zero’. That said, one needs a really good reason for a judge to over-rule a legit will or trust.
Lots of people with lots of assets do not have trusts. This is an overgeneralization. If you are helping elders with their estate planning, please understand that just because they have assets, a trust isn’t needed.
A good estate planning lawyer can give you excellent advice and scenerios about this. My suggestion…consult one.
You can also avoid probate on most assets with TOD or beneficiary designation (for simple situations). We were told that many wealthy people set up trusts for privacy, since probate actions are public record. Also tax avoidance. Neither would be an influencing factor for us, but in some families it is a big deal.
People with lotsa assets like the privacy afforded in a Trust, as Probate is public. (remember Michael Jackson’s estate issues?)
btw: people in CA with few assets may get a Trust as well. A Trust avoids the CA probate line. My folks had one and about the only thing of value that they owned was their home. (they attended one of those free lunches and got sucked in.). A Trust made it extremely easy for the Trustee (me) to sell their house when the second spouse passed and this was during COVID when the CA courts were barely open as nearly everyone was WFH.