We have a friend (wealthier than we are) who advocates putting almost everything in irrevocable trust. His reasoning relates heir taxation and shielding money from children’s spouses if they divorce (suprised me… I thought inheritance money goes to child only, unless co-mingled with spouse in house purchase etc).
Based on initial discussions with FA a few years ago… if we do a trust someday, I think it will be set up as revocable (til the first spouse passes). We need access to the funds.
Sorry about the rambling. Interested in thoughts of this group.
The whole issue is yes, your sister and you would inherit her estate (with or w/o probate depending on state laws and what has been legally documented), but then passing things to the next generation will deal with taxes above the gift amount allowable that year.
Certainly worth doing the leg work to avoid taxation to the grandchildren. With mother having mild dementia now - need to get things done while she legally can sign documents.
My mother didn’t want to sign documents until my brother told her she was not losing the money she had with signing the trust papers (she agreed to sign 2 days before my dad’s death).
So, IMHO, get all the papers drawn up that are ‘best’ for the situation/state/agreement with your sister - and then have the people your mom trusts the most be at her side to sign them. Figure out the right way to say it to your mom so she ‘buys in’. My brother knew how to say it to our mother.
Read the whole thread. Lots of food for thought on our own estate planning. We plan to be in current state for maybe another 8 - 10 years. We have wills. Beneficiaries set up with all accounts. ‘The basics’ but understand we should do more. Our parents are deceased and no family elders to need to assist.
Right now we are working on the house, two insurance claims and some projects.
I liked the strategy one had about presenting a lot of ‘hard stuff first’ and then providing things like passwords and where various things were would seem easy to have agreement to comply.
My hat is off to you who have been through this whole process.
My parents’ trust worked out as it was planned. The only downfall was one brother taking jewelry that was meant for me (my two sisters actually got expensive pieces, and loose things were to go to me so even split). At the time, I was still in cancer recovery and grieving the loss of mom, so didn’t confront the items he had set aside but in plain view – his ‘strategy’ worked. Brother was calculating, but he also made a lot of mistakes in life, and he also had to live with those consequences.
A reminder that having a will is not the same thing as letting people know where it is. Dad had a safe with all the necessary papers, etc and gave us all the combination.
My DiL’s parent, despite being mentally ill, did in fact tell her/show her where the will was kept and otherwise we’d never have found it.
My inlaws claim to have a will:
DH : I don’t want to read it, but show me where it is kept.
MIL: it’s inthese files somewhere.
Long bunch of searching, FIL becomes agitated, says that’s not where it is, won’t tell DH where it is, eventually says the lawyer has the only copy.
DH: okay, can you tell me who the lawyer is, then? FIL can’t remember, MIL doesn’t know, eventually they find a business card that may or may not be the right lawyer. BIL is unconcerned bc he says we already know how they want us to divide stuff, so we don’t really need to see the will.
My inlaws are in perfectly sound mind. They just don’t face mortality.
Something to remember…lawyers DO stop practicing, leave firms, etc. When we recently updated our older wills, our lawyer had to contact the firm who did the first one, to let them know that the old one should be destroyed. We had to sign something to verify this. This is important to remember to do!
Our current lawyer does keep wills on file someplace…but she made it very clear that WE should have the necessary copies.
When we had ours done, we mentioned this to the sibling closest to the MIL. Hopefully she has a will copy.
Also, regarding old wills…they need to be updated, especially if done when you had minor children with guardians. There were a LOT of things we needed to update and change in our newer wills (done last year). So if you or a family elder has an OLD will, it would be good to have it reviewed anyway.
Also, if you or the elder move to a new state, you may find different “rules” apply that must be adhered to. My MIL didn’t want to hear anything about that. But I think she eventually did update. But then…I honest,y don’t know about her will and neither does my husband.
H & I met with the executor of my in laws’ estate five years ago. He gave us copies of the paperwork and asked FIL where the originals were. They were in the safety deposit box. There was one document that needed to be included in the paperwork that was in the box, and FIL promised to put it there.
Five years later, FIL is gone. MIL made changes to the will but did not elaborate; we don’t have an updated copy. She also closed out her safety deposit box. Everything went with my SIL, and she & her H claim to not know where various documents that should have been in the box are - rather, they say that they never saw them.
My advice is to make sure that you don’t give important documents to the child who is incredibly disorganized and is a borderline hoarder.
And choose your lawyer wisely. My 90 year old father was still using the same lawyer he had for dozens of years, who was older than he was. Nothing was being done. Best move he ever made was to switch to a younger elder care lawyer.
And don’t keep your will in a safety deposit box. You need the will to get into the safety deposit box. (unless the beneficiary is also a signer on the box)
A Will from a different state will be accepted (Full Faith and Credit requires that) but it may not be interpreted the same way you intended and it may be more difficult for the executor. But it’s still valid.
If all paperwork is in safety deposit box, consider having copy of health care directive at home. It might be needed at night or weekend, when bank is closed.
It seems good practice to destroy an old Will, for odd situations such as the previously named executor being devious. But I assume that in general the rule is that the newest Will has precedence… true?
Depends on the state. Probate in some states is easy and filing fees are inexpensive. (I’ve read that clerks in NJ will even help you complete the required forms.). OTOH, in California it can take months just to get the first hearing.
btw: don’t forget about PoD/ToD which supersedes a Will/Trust.
When we made out our first will 33 years ago, we stored it in my parent’s freezer. It seemed logical at the time, but it was rather crumbly after many years. We wrote a new will about ten years ago, and our youngest was curious as to why (maybe he thought we were writing him out of it?). We told him that it’s because the first will left everything to his brother, as he wasn’t born yet, and the new one added him to it. He stopped asking questions.
For an individual a revocable trust becomes irrevocable anyway after their death. I don’t know the rules for when it becomes irrevocable if it’s a joint trust.
A properly drafted trust can prevent children from receiving nothing. On sites like MarketWatch or Bogleheads you can regularly read stories in which person A dies and leaves everything to their spouse, the understanding being that surviving spouse B will then leave everything to their children. Their wills may even say that. But surviving spouse B remarries. B changes their will to leave everything to their new spouse C. B dies before C, spouse C has their own children and leaves everything to them. The children of A & B get nothing.
Don’t forget state level estate taxes as you help an elderly family member with their planning.
The estate may be too modest for federal taxes to come into play (most are) but some state taxes come as a surprise to the family members who assumed that everything would pass to them after the debts were paid. And if the family member had not kept up with income tax filings in the last few years (not uncommon if the person was ill or declining) those past tax liabilities (on dividends and interest, for example) will need to be satisfied before any distributions are made. And liens on the property before it is sold…
It’s easy to say “Oh, I have a will (and perhaps a trust)”. But some obligations come FIRST before a nickel is distributed to the beloved children and grandchildren!
DH and his brother were the executors for their mom’s estate. She never consulted them about anything. She was very private. Since the brothers were in 2 different states it caused some difficulty. Oh, make sure that the financial institution (bank) has some good rules. There was one piece of paper that both brothers had to sign and have notarized 3 times because them having 2 copies weren’t enough. (Brother-in-Law has since removed his money from that bank because of the difficulties, even though it is the closest bank to him and he has dealt with them for years.) She had a trust that she put things in that didn’t belong (IRA) and didn’t put in items that should have been put in.
DH is the executor for his Aunt’s estate. She is always calling him to tell him something about what she wants done. He has a 3 inch thick binder with information. However, he doesn’t know what is in the will. His aunt (his mom’s sister) is just as secretive as his mom was. Aunt had 5 siblings. One was childless, as is she. Two siblings had 2 children each. One had 4 and his mom had 7 children. The only thing that we know for sure is that there is a $25,000 savings account that he is beneficiary of. It is to help him with estate costs. She lives in California and we live in the mid-west. Even though she has nieces and nephews that live closer, she picked DH because he is Catholic and she wants to make sure that she has all of the Catholic services after she dies. Oh, also, 2 of the nieces and nephews have died. We have no idea whether they or their children will be included. (DH’s brother who has died had 8 children.) Oh, and she is a hoarder of sorts. I keep telling DH that he needs a key to her house and the security code. If she goes to the hospital and dies, there is no way to get into the house. She did have a break in a couple of years back and she is now paranoid. It will be a mess. I love her to death, but it will be a nightmare.
