I think the key in setting up your estate planning is using a knowledgable estate planning lawyer….like we did. We did as our experienced estate lawyer suggested. This was suggested to my in-laws many years ago. We hope they listened.
We have POAs, and health care directives. Someone probably has the will, but it’s not my husband who is also NOT the executor. There are two siblings who live in the same state, and we think they will be sharing that responsibility. Which is fine.
Wealthy people tend to favor irrevocable trusts as it lower the estates eventual “taxable basis”.
“Wealthy people often use irrevocable trusts to pass on wealth to future generations and minimize estate taxes.”
People who may need access to assets use revocable trusts.
Yes, I’m guessing most have an attorney - we did. I keep thinking I need to get it updated (it’s 20 years old).
Here are some pros and cons for anyone interested;
There’s so many kinds of trusts…it’s a cottage industry.
Thank you - yeah - he considered it. Another piece of the puzzle is that we didn’t probate because all of her assets are cash in bank accounts that she had named step-sibling as a beneficiary to (she was in assisted living and had already sold her house). We did file her taxes and will do a final accounting and tax filing next year. She had 2 retirement accounts - one that she named step-sibling to and another that she forgot to name anyone to. I tried to convince step-sibling that I should be entitled to the 2nd retirement account payout (it amounted to a fraction of the total cash she already received), but she said no. I suppose I could hire a lawyer but there is so much history with this whole thing - I really just want it to be done so I never have to think of them again. The jewelry thing really bothers me though. What kind of person would withhold someone’s mother’s jewelry?!
ETA - that I’m also fighting for my inheritance on my dad’s side of the family against his girlfriend (had to hire a lawyer for that one). This stuff gets exhausting after a while…
Yes you should. You might get very different advice now than you did 20 years ago.
I’ll tell you why people have to force out a sibling…sib doesn’t work outside the home, has zero income except their share of the estate proceeds. Taxes are high. Utilities are high. House needs work and sib won’t allow “strangers” inside. The other siblings have jobs and demands on their time and can’t take a week off from work to rip up moldy carpeting from the recent basement flood.
The only viable financial plan is to force the sibling out, buy a modest condo which the sibling will be able to afford plus have a modest monthly income for food etc.
Don’t judge unless you’ve watched a million dollar house fall into disrepair with tax liens and mold reducing the value bit by bit. It is heartbreaking but the financially stable siblings often have no choice…
DId he have just a will or trust?
Listen, everyone’s situation is different and they will do what they’ll do for their situation. That’s their right.
My situation isn’t another person’s situation.
But my dad has a trust and the estate will run as the trust mandates
No courts. No probate fees. No infighting.
But - hopefully this is many years off - it’s just morbid. Important…but morbid.
Anyone else? How have you helped the elders in your families navigate this challenging estate process?
my DH helped his sister. A lot.
You asked why…I gave one not uncommon scenario.
My father died just about a year ago. For decades, he had not only made estate plans, but printed out notebooks of information and directions for me and my siblings. Each Christmas, he would collect us and add any updates or changed information. And that was all something we got used to , and was important to him as he came from a family with some difficulties in estate/probate matters.
When he was in declining health, these levels of details availed us naught because he had made no plans at all to be unwell. Like so many elders, he assumed he would suddenly become sick, have time to sum things up, and die conveniently and happily. Not how that worked. But the estate was still very complicated and time consuming and I bless my siblings for helping Mom (who was his executor; terrible thing to do to a grieving elderly widow) get everything done. But thank goodness we had all those instructions and lessons and knew exactly what we should do afterwards, even if it was soooo much red tape.
My inlaws have no will. They have no estate plan. They become sullen and angry if DH attempts to use my parents’ situation to illuminate the deep gap they are leaving. I bought them one of those estate planning workbooks just to show them how unprepared they were; it did have the effect of finally convincing my FIL that an executor and POA are not the same thing, convinced him that hiring an attorney to be his/her POA and executor is unwise. But we don’t know their passwords. We don’t know where they bank, IF they have a bank, investments, anything. They own rental real estate far away – we don’t so much as know the address or mortgage holder ( Yes, at 85, they got a 20 yr mortgage on a piece of property)
Talking to them, etc. doesn’t work at all. They are absolutely convinced that they have all the time in the world to bother with this sort of thing, and my MIL is fond of saying why should she care, she’ll be dead and it won’t be her problem. I said, do you really want your sons to be angry that you’ve left them so much work and expense? (“What expense? If you sell the house, you’ll be rich”) . At that point, we gave up.
He had an old will.
The Cliff Notes version is he sold his house, moved into girlfriend’s house and used the proceeds from his house to do a big remodel on her house. In order to preserve an inheritance they agreed that he would be entitled to a 30% interest of her house. The redid the deed to that effect and attached a written agreement to the deed, all of which was signed, sealed and filed with the court.
He died 8 years ago and the 30% passes to me. He died with an enormous amount of credit card debt and the only asset is that house. We don’t probate because we don’t want force the sale of the house and throw the girlfriend out onto the street. I agree that she can live out her life there (she’s 84 now) but over the years she pressures me to “give” her my interest so she can leave the whole house to her adult kids (they are older than me). That’s not what she agreed to with my dad. The house is on the water and worth a healthy amount. My lawyer has given her a buy out offer at a lot less than the 30%, in an effort to get it done before she dies. They have refused the offer. So we wait and when she does pass, my lawyer will file the necessary paperwork for my share.
The real question for her is “do you want to leave an inheritance to your sons or rather to the government and lawyers?”
As for the lawyer executorship–at least they know where to start and can file all the right papers–in this case you may end doing so anyway.
How do they feel about probate? They are definitely headed there. You won’t be able to inquire about investments or bank accounts without court orders.
They think probate is just an advantageous process where the state takes care of everything and then hands your heirs whatever is left. Seriously. These are well educated yet very insulated people, and in 40 years of marriage I have never seen any of their children manage to change their mind once they “know” something.
I think the only way to persuade them to change course would be pointing out that lacking a will, the state will be in charge of everything, including access to their property. But their interest in actually executing anything is always minimal. All talk, no action.
Well…they are not incorrect. It’s just the State may not leave them (you) anything.
One last tactic…talk physical funeral plans. Start with the most morbid and most concrete thinking first. Rather than paper work … What are we to do with YOU? Got a burial plot? Burial, cremation, body to science? Or is that all your (the kids) choice? If they already told you then ask where those papers are. Is there money set aside? If they shove that aside you can say “you get what you get then!”
At the very least passwords seem easy to talk about afterwards. Sometimes just the shock of the question will help focus thinking.
That makes the “paperwork” portion seem very mundane.
As the in law, I advise you to do nothing.
Because you are not their children. Don’t give advice. Be helpful to your mate and leave it at that.
Signed,
The in law
I refuse to give advice because it’s not my parents and they don’t want nor will heed anything I think they should do. Because they are stubborn and their children are afraid of their ire.
My parents died without any assets. The one I’m worried about is my childless brother. He has 2 houses, a bunch of cars (like 9-10), probably a bunch of bank accounts all over the place with no co-owners or PODs… yeah, details aren’t his forte. He has some accounts that he’s listed the nieces and nephews on. No question, it will be a mess. Colorado law will have the 5 siblings as heirs, but of course my sister and I will have to do all the work as the other brothers are useless.
Older brother has some assets, but also has 4 kids. Let them duke it out. Other 2 brothers don’t have much, one has a son, the other no children. Hopefully, they’ll outlive me.
I was my mother’s only child. When she died, the estate lawyer said, “the good news is you are an only child. The bad news is you are an only child.”
True that. I didn’t have to be concerned about who was getting what, but I also had to do all the work to close out the estate…which really wasn’t a lot of work.
I’m one of four of my father’s kids (3 half sisters from his second marriage). My dad really took care of everything. He really didn’t have assets when he died except a very small checking account. We cleaned out the house the weekend he died…and we all got a little something as a memento. My sister who had always lived there had already been deeded the house. And the four of us agreed on everything!
My brother who died intestate didn’t have much, and it was easy to find - and it was still a huge pain. He didn’t have kids. His beneficiary on his accounts was our mom who had died 8 years earlier. I can’t imagine what it would be like if he’d had the assets your brother has!