My daughter, who recently married in the Netherlands, has told me she wouldn’t want to do anyting to her baby( not happening yet) unless the CHILD gave consent…really? We were discussing having a Reform Jewish ceremony (spouse is not Jewish) in the US for the American side of the family to attend. In speaking with a Reform Rabbi, he asked me if the child would be circumcised. I said I would speak to my daughter, who said no. I told her this could be a problem in getting a religious ceremony, which she has stated she wants. Any ideas I could present to her? I am sure we will go through this with immunizations as well.
How about if you don’t have a religious ceremony…have a little meet and greet picnic. No issues.
Your daughter is being silly. A child doesn’t know his you-know-what from his elbow when he’s a child. That’s why adults are their legal guardians until they’re 18 years old. How does a baby know if he wants to be circumcised? How does a six-month-old know if he wants/should have vaccinations? That’s why God gave babies parents.
ETA: Does a baby/child know if he wants to be in a car seat? Wants to go to bed at a reasonable hour? Wants to go to school?
I think that there is a somewhat of a difference between a car seat and permanent (non medically necessary) body modifications…
Is she asking for your opinion specifically? If not, I think I would just let her sound out her thoughts without offering any real advice in any particular direction. You could ask open ended questions like “tell me more?” “Hmmm, sounds interesting.”
I would be careful to not step on her and her husband’s toes when it comes to parenting choices. Of course if something potentially dangerous is being contemplated then I would feel compelled to speak up. But right now, with no baby on the immediate horizon, I wouldn’t say much.
Not that I know too much about it, but I think the intactivist movement believes that male circumcision is almost as barbaric a practice as female genital mutilation. ??? Of course there is probably a spectrum of beliefs in that movement.
I’ve got a sister in law raising kids like this and I can tell you it’s not pleasant to be around.
MODERATOR’S NOTE: Please don’t make this a debate about circumcision, or the thread will be closed.
I’m confused - does she already have a baby or is she already pregnant?
Again…I see no reason to have any further discussion with your daughter about this. None. They will be the parents of this child (when the time comes) and as that childs parents, they will make many decisions you might not agree with.
Have a nice picnic welcoming them for a visit. And when a baby does come…just have a little “come meet our grandchild” event. You don’t need to have any kind of ceremony at all.
You will not be this baby’s parent.
I read the article- interesting!
Is there a baby already? If not, why is this even being thought about? What if she has a girl?
It’s really not your place anyway. They’re already married. They’ve made that decision. What they do with their kids, as long as legal, isn’t really up to the grandparents.
Why not just have a reception that introduces the new couple/family to the US relatives.
That said…of course parents make decisions about their kids before they’re old enough.
Your DD may have been talking about religious-related issues.
NO MORE POSTS ABOUT CIRCUMCISION PROS/CONS! Warnings will be handed out from now on.
Call me crazy, but I think this IS something that should be thought about before there is a baby. I have a less than 10% chance of ever having my own bio kid and it’s something I’ve thought extensively about.
I understand her hesitation about circumcision.
Vaccines, on the other hand, ARE necessary and you can die and kill others without them. It is neglectful NOT to give your child something that will protect him/her and others.
I think it’s interesting that your daughter wants her child to go through a religious ceremony without his/her consent but not do something beneficial for his/her health. Personally, my children will not go through any religious ceremony unless they are adults and it becomes their choice.
Sorry x-posted with MLH! Don’t jail me please!
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I am sure we will go through this with immunizations as well.
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I mean this in the most respectful way possible: “we” will not be going through anything. It is the parent’s child, and the parent’s choice. Your position should be to offer an opinion only if asked, and then be gracious if the result does not match your input.
My daughter-in-law is actually expecting. I am a very bossy, opinionated and nagging parent, but I am doing my very best to just zip my lip for the next couple of decades. So far it is paying off: I’ve been invited to visit, go to doctor’s appts, and tour the hospital. I’m offering no opinions. No one has asked for my opinion! I haven’t even sent any advice books.
Maybe the discussion could become about when adult children have very different ideas than our own. Admire alh for zipping her lips! I am sure it will be hard for me as well.
Zipping my lip is getting me what I want… a supportive role in the pregnancy and future access to my grandchild.
I wonder if this might be affected by the Dutch general philosophy about informed consent. For example, at a relatively young age (12 years old), minors have the right to medical treatment without their parent’s (or other legal representative’s) presence.
I’ve not only heard it, I lived it. Why do you have to do anything? Why not let the parents raise their children however they want? They’re grown people. I’d trust them to figure it out.
I have the right to choose my religion, but my children have just as much right to pick theirs. And we don’t do anything not medically necessary that can’t be undone. My son was actually thrown out of an orthodontist practice at 14 because I refused to “make” him let them remove perfectly good wisdom teeth that he wanted to keep. They’re not my teeth, they’re his. We had to go somewhere else and pay extra to have the braces removed. Now if the children were in some sort of danger I’d say something, but otherwise I’d stay out of it.
I am speaking as someone who is in your D’s position: recently married, kids probably in the picture at some point but not quite yet, etc. Here is my personal line: grandparents can give me/us advice that will protect the heath and safety of their grandkids. Vaccines and the like would fall under this and I’d hope grandparents would fight tooth and nail if their kid decided not to vaccinate their children.
What you cannot do is try to impose moral issues on us. There, we need to find our own way. Mr R’s parents are already furious that we won’t baptize our kids and that they’re getting my last name (either hyphenated with his or not we haven’t decided yet). That is not something grandparents need to weigh in on and the more they push, the further we’ll pull away.