<p>I think I’ll wait for his announcement that he has been cured of being a liar and a hypocrite. That his sexual proclivities have been “cured” is of no interest nor ever really the point.</p>
<p>Anyone who thinks he was cured, please agree then to let any pedophile go through the same procedure and if they say they’re well, take them at their word.
I know many folks who think sex addiction, alcohol addiction, gambling etc is “lifted” from people by prayer alone, only to be crushed when it returns.</p>
<p>Amen, bullwinkle and OldinJersey! Maybe some of those wonderful faith healers can cure me of my cynicism… ;)</p>
<p>I am trying to remember here. How long did it take Jesse Jackson and the other spiritual counselors to get Bubba back on track after getting caught shagging the help? And Jesse himself made a pretty rapid recovery from his own little sexual imbroglio.</p>
<p>See it is not just the rubes who can have spiritual transformations in the wink of an eye.</p>
<p>
I find this astonishing. </p>
<p>The analogy here, to being gay, is not only uncalled for but incorrect and I hope offered without thought or meditation. </p>
<p>I would redact this one. In fact I suggest you do.</p>
<p>What’s more, I would not append an “amen” to this none-too-clever analogy.
As above.</p>
<p>Dot–I would take the analogy in the spirit in which I believe that it was intended: oldinJersey was not suggesting that there’s anything wrong with being gay, but that a person’s sexual inclination can be CHANGED by a 3 month course of prayer. Prison officials around the country would like to have cures for persons who are a danger to society b/c of their sexual desires. We all know how successful existing programs are–that’s why all the laws trying to keep track of sexual predators. </p>
<p>I would actually put more faith in prayer curing him of being a liar and a hypocrite, except that he seems to be surrounded by either hypocrites, frauds, or well-meaning ignoramuses.</p>
<p>I am simply astonished that anyone would mention the sexual abuse of young children and the consensual relationships between lovers in the same sentence. Even more that others would sign on to such a despicable analogy.</p>
<p>There is absolutely no analogy between the two.
Neither is there anything to draw from such an analogy, beyond the mindset of those who make it. Freud would undoubtedly make something of it…even a numbskull could—I did.</p>
<p>Being in an adult gay relationship has exactly nothing in common with sexually abusing innocent and vulnerable children. What’s more, one <em>DOES</em> need a cure (child sexual abuse) and the other (being gay) is immune to and incompatible with a <em>cure</em>.</p>
<p>No matter who makes the suggestion, it is a very bad suggestion.</p>
<p>Bullwinkle:
</p>
<p>That was very funny. But it might take more than three weeks. :D</p>
<p>Dotty–Don’t be a numbskull, then. We all AGREE that prayer doesn’t “cure” homosexuality. It doesn’t even NEED to be cured. OK?</p>
<p>We were trying to demonstrate the silliness of the attempt by growing a logical absurdity. Never mind. And this was a silly thread to begin with. ;)</p>
<p>I will then hope that we will all agree that drawing an analogy between child sex abuse and being gay is beyond the pale…even if it makes a Christian numbskull and perchance gay-hypocrite look bad.</p>
<p>Perhaps:</p>
<p>when shooting at Evangelical Christians one should use a rifle rather than field-artillery so as not to bloody everything and everyone in sight. </p>
<p>Even if it does get all your yeah-yeahs out.</p>
<p>I am so sorry I used that example. I should have just used straight!
Let me try again - though took migraine meds and if it’s even more dopey please excuse me!
My original point was that folks jumping on the “woo hoo he’s cured” bandwagon wouldn’t accept the Prayer Fixed Me from someone with a very different orientation OR a very dangerous orientation. Accepting the Gays can Be Cured messages is silly. I was not trying to compare the actions of a healthy adult in consensual sex with a sicko, just to say that all orientations are just that, and if you think one kind -gay-can be prayed away then you have to think all can be changed by prayer and be willing to believe anyone of any orientation that says it happened.
Are you straight? Can 4 gay ministers “cure” you of that orientation? Being gay is a natural orientation, so is being straight. You can’t “cure” it.
imho if someone’s religion is that rigid you might, with years of work with real professionals, be able to control acting on the desire, but the desire is what it is for most of us.<br>
We all have an arousal template that is pretty darn hardwired into the brain.</p>
<p>DPX, I have noticed lately in several threads that when someone uses analogy to highlight the problems inherent in a particular ARGUMENT, you then blithely declare that the poster was making an analogy between the “objects” that were being argued about. </p>
<p>Bad logic. Though, I guess if it works, why not keep doing it, even though I believe you know better?</p>
<p>garland,</p>
<p>Perhaps your analytic assistance would be better directed at those who make either bad analogies or inappropriate analogies, as the case may be. I should think it would be more productive and positive. </p>
<p>Though it is always nice to be noticed, for whatever reason (fwiw, I suggest you simply state that you disagree with me and save the analysis and charity for those in such desperate need of it, as above—I have what so many of your compadres long for, National Health Care, and can receive such treatment at no cost)</p>
<p>Might I suggest that if, for instance, an opponent of gay marriage had drawn the same analogy as above, I suspect you would be less analytic and more argumentative on the matter. But perhaps I misread your playful analysis of an analysis as a serious one, and erred. </p>
<p>I take OldinJersey’s redaction to be honest and sincere, as I expected and hoped it would be. </p>
<p>Had I not mentioned it, I doubt anyone else would have given him/her just such an opportunity to rethink such a caviler and grotesque analogy. I certainly doubt that those who actually cheered such a gaff with an “amen” would have and I suspect you would have passed by, as well, for more political reasons than the logical ones you expound above. </p>
<p>Let’s be honest:
the choir was a bit off key on that last number.
Someone had to say something if only for the sake of the song being sung.</p>
<p>Personally, Dorothy, I think you are making a mountain out of a molehill. Give us a little credit for understanding the spirit of the analogy- that it is as equally absurd to claim that someone can be “cured” (of something that is not a disease) in 3 wks by someone “waving hands” over him (again- this is an analogy-- please don’t attack me for this) as it is to expect that someone can be “cured” of attributes leading to a heinous behavior in 3 weeks. That is what I am saying “amen” to (and to Bullwinkle’s comment, which was funny). You said you didn’t care much about this, but you are spending a lot of time here trying to enlighten us that someone’s analogy was perhaps in poor taste.</p>
<p>By the way, I didn’t read the post in question as in any way drawing a comparison between homosexuality and pedopheia, and it sounds like most others didn’t see this as an analogy either. I think that is what Garland is saying.</p>
<p>d,</p>
<p>You need to change underwear. The current pair seems to be bunched for no reason. </p>
<p>The point was about prayer. Most got it and didn’t compare the two lifestyles, rather they considered the “treatment” aspect of the lifestyle.</p>
<p>Hahahaha Opie 
Thats funny!
By the way, I purposely used “amen” to poke a little fun at the hyper-religiosity aspect of this supposed “cure”. Did anyone pick that up or was I being too obtuse?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>I care a great deal…especially when I am being challenged or confronted. Still, as I say, I prefer not to know the mushy details of every punter’s sex life. They are, in the grand scheme of things, irrelevant to what people do in their lives. Haggard did not lie because he was gay or straight, he lied because he was a dishonest liar. Not because he was in need of seedy sex or romantic love.</p>
<p>The Christian/gay/straight/bi etc hypocrite/victim/sexually-questioning pastor above was caught in a public act of lying. As was, you may recall, another public feminist/secular figure some time back; there was a blue dress and a deposition involved. </p>
<p>In both cases what I found to be interesting in the story was not, to my mind, their sex lives, but their character. I see no need to compound the sexual details by bringing up analogies to child molestation. Others are entitled to disagree. Both of these punters abused their position and lied as hypocrites so often do.</p>
<p>That is, to me, interesting. Their sexual peccadilloes’, far, far less so.</p>
<p>Makes for juicy cover, though. The old bodice/tank-top ripper, as the case may be.</p>
<p>The point stands. The analogy was tasteless. It should have been noted and corrected.
It was.</p>
<p>edit: Opie, if, for instance, HH would have used the same analogy to make her case: a pass?</p>
<p>and, get your mind out of the gutter…my underthings are none of your business, sir.</p>
<p>Gee, Dot, I’m confused. The article proclaimed him to be now convinced that he is “completely heterosexual”, not “completely honest”. So what did they “treat” him for? Dishonesty? Unfortunately they didn’t “cure” him of that, as he is lying to himself now. All I can say is… we hear you…lighten up.</p>
<p>Haggard had a bully pulpit and he used it to gain power and part of his preaching was putting down homosexuals</p>
<p>If he was just a preacher who didn’t rally the troops by preaching what he did, no one would care, BUT because he was a very public leader of the Evangelical Movement who often have a mission to take away rights from a segment of the population because the bible tells them so (what, we are talking less than a paragraph of words that could have been put in by a lowly scribe)</p>
<p>His actions before the lie hurt people and he got power from his preachings, so when it comes out that he was the very type of person he so publically and his friends and his collegeuges and his parishioners so publiclaly demonize, it matters.</p>
<p>And THEN when he comes out and says he is CURED and that well, he wasn’t really gay or whatever, that HURTS other people because his being a very public figure in a community of people that hate gays and gay rights, they will use his statements, which he DID NOT need to make to say, see, no one is born gay and you can be FIXED!!!</p>
<p>The analogy wasn’t the best, but I understood the intent…</p>
<p>I guess some of us can see the damage that can be done to a whole community by the pronouncements of this man, while others brush it off</p>
<p>It is my understanding that many people are in fact “bi-sexual”.
Not sure abouth the occasional “cure” rate between the ebbs and tides, as the case may be, here.</p>
<p>Food for thought.</p>