I’m just beginning to explore schools such as Pratt, SVA, SCAD, etc. I’m so surprised to see so many of these schools only have a 50% graduation rate, give or take. Why do so many students drop out of these schools? I realize these schools are expensive, but I assume the students and their families know that when they accept admission. So it is because the programs are more challenging than had been anticipated? I find it a little concerning that the drop-out rates are so high at these schools. Any feedback would be greatly appreciated, thanks!
We’ve seen a combination of two things going on: 1. It’s expensive, and 2. It’s much harder work than some students anticipate. Many of the kids who transferred out during my D’s freshman year did so, because it was expensive, and many ended up transferring to their own state schools. But also, many dropped out, because they couldn’t keep up with the demands of the work, or they expected it to be much easier than it was.
Sad to say but we knew from the start that S could not attend art school. He won 11 Scholastic awards for painting including 2 nominations for American Vision (national finalist) but there was no way we could afford it. A friend who got RISD’s highest merit award still could not go there, because he decided that $80 K in loans for a BFA was not a good idea. Some kids start the first year thinking that the money will magically appear…but realize they can’t maintain it. If you pay for art supplies or if you can’t do much work-study because of time expected in the studio you will have even less $ than you thought.
Of course if your family can afford it it would be an exhilarating time. MICA, RISD, etc are amazing places for artists. This is assuming that you already know you want a BFA.
S decided not to do the BFA, or at least not exclusively. The options we explored were combined or dual degree BA and BFA at larger places like Wash U, Carnegie, BU, Cornell, and Brown/RISD. Taking an entirely different route, for a BS or BA we looked at liberal arts schools that have strong art dept’s (tho these were often disappointing in terms of quality of work produced since students are starting from the basics).
It is important to start sorting out what degree you want, and what your future might hold. For a student who wants to live, breath and sleep studio art, and can’t imagine doing anything else for the rest of your life, and IF your family can swing it financially, it could be heaven. If you can imagine yourself doing other things you might consider options. Yale Grad School of Art for example does not require a BFA to get into their MFA program.
Best of luck!
At the (classical realism art) ateliers that I’m familiar with in Florence, Italy, many or most first year students drop out. I’m told that many students are simply not prepared for the rigor and very long hours that the successful artists put in. Some students come thinking that they are “artistes” and can party and take evenings off. They either don’t last or don’t do well (ateliers are much cheaper than Pratt, SCAD, etc., so financial reasons are not the main reason students leave). Many students come to ateliers after having obtained BAs in art in the United States, and a number of them don’t do well either; again, they weren’t prepared for the very hard work they would have to do, and don’t advance.
Thank you for your responses. It sounds like there is a combination of factors. I wonder if the employment opportunities are better if you graduate from an art school like Pratt, SCAD, etc. versus a state university. Or does that depend on the university?
I would think a flagship state university would have a good program and enough highly talented kids to provide a good experience at a more reasonable cost, as well as options to add some practical courses, double major, or minor in employable fields to your BFA or BA.
50% graduation rate is not bad … many students do not complete their 4 year programs or even a 2 year program … but I would really be hesitant to be highly in debt until you are sure your student has the interest and talent to make it through and commit to an art career.
@momcinco - where did your son end up … he sounds like he definitely had the talent, hope he found an affordable option with great program …
S ended up at a large university which has excellent fin aid and an art school. However his choice was predicated on NOT exclusively pursuing a BFA. I want to insist that this is the first and priority decision. If you are an artist and serious about art you do not have to do the BFA…but the academic trajectory will be very different if you do a BS or BA. Financial aid of course is the related consideration.
If you do not see yourself getting an MFA but rather stopping with the BFA that would also be important to know early on. So in that case you do want to do a BFA. S may end up completing a portfolio for MFA apps – while majoring in something completely different. But if he thought this was his only chance to study art, well, that might change things.
S went to a high school art institute which regularly has alums report back. They have gotten jobs with google, disney, advertising, small companies, industrial art, a variety of schools, etc. Granted, the ones who report back are the ones who went on to make careers in art. But the point is, it is possible to make a career in art. Like other careers…You just don’t want to embark on it while burdened with unsustainable debt.
Best advice I can give any HS graduate interested in the arts…
- Go to a state college for your undergraduate degree. Discover your passion, and develop your talent at a much cheaper cost.
- Go to a select program of your choice for an M.A or M.F.A, degree to shape your personal vision and learn mature critical thinking skills.
Some universities offer BFAs. My son is working on one @ Tyler.
This information has been so helpful. We have several universities in our state (Virginia) that offer the BFA degree. Of course VCU Arts is the best, but I know it’s very competitive so I’m looking at other options as well. Financially, we are fortunate that we can afford to send our son to an art school without incurring debt. It’s not a money issue. Having said that, my husband and I don’t necessarily want to spend tens of thousands of dollars more on a BFA from, let’s say, Pratt, when a BFA from a state school would be just as good. However, if going to an art school would indeed be better for his job prospects, than we are all for it. I haven’t thought as far ahead as grad school! I didn’t realize that getting an MFA was important for job opportunities.
Pratt also has a campus upstate ny that is substantially cheaper to attend. Many students do two years up state and finish with a gtd spot at the Brooklyn campus. Also, Cooper union still offers the best FA package around and is an incredible school . Very difficult to get in but worth a look.
To clarify - maybe - something I said, where a student graduates from makes absolutely no difference to creative agencies looking to hire a designer. You are hired on portfolio, professional experience, professionalism, and the ability to work as a team member.
However, a masters program at a well-established art college may help the aspiring designer significantly upgrade the quality of the portfolio. M.A. degrees can be completed in a year. M.F.A., two years. M.F.A. opens the door to teaching at the college level since it is the terminal degree in most design fields.
Many artists as they grow up are constantly told how good they are and are usually one of the best, if not the best, artists in their high school. They rarely receive good critical assessments of their art. When you get to college, whether it be a top art school or the art department at a state university, you suddenly realize you may not be as good as you thought. Professors are critical and everyone is very good. A lot of self-doubt creeps in to many young artists. I saw this self-doubt in many of the artists I started college with. Some were able to work through it and use the critiques to become better artists while others couldn’t get past it and decided a career in art was not for them. Students need to realize before starting art school that they are not going to be praised like they have been their entire lives and they need to be able to accept and learn from constructive criticism. There is also a huge time commitment in completing projects for class. Most of that time is outside of the scheduled class time which means many late nights finishing that sculpture or drawing. Many who have always found art to come easy will realize they have to be more focused and committed in college. Some are not willing to give that level of commitment. They just want to do art for fun.
As comicdude said, where you attend has very little impact on your job prospects. Your portfolio and attitude is what will get you the job.
The drop out rates are high. A lot of folks on this thread all make very valid points that I have found to be true in my son’s experience. He is still in an art school - 4th year - so I’ll a little more to this discussion.
Many of the students are entrepreneurial - they earn money doing art while in school which offers a lot of temptation. Why stay in school if I can already make money on art and imagine how much I could make if did it full time vs going to classes is the thought. Think about it. Few student accountants or biologists or engineers are able to work and make money in their chosen field before fully graduating and getting certified, licensed, etc to do the job.
Also, art school, as we are learning the hard way, has a tight, narrow curriculum. We have to send our son through a 5th year of school because of 3 classes. This sucks and it’s too expensive. Academic advising was confusing, the 4 year curriculum changed and graduation requirements changed in his sophomore year plus he dropped 2 classes at one time. These things cost us a whole year whereas, when I went to college, I was undecided for 3 semesters then chose a major and graduated in 4 years. The system is rigged to take longer than 4 years in my humble opinion unless you can handle a fairly aggressive course curriculum.
The degree is of value if you choose to be an artist. It will open some doors that would otherwise remain closed. But these schools need to get better at the administration of the program and not put so much onus on 18-20 yo’s to navigate these huge bureaucracies by themselves when they don’t even have it together.
@Madaboutx your experience is a concern of mine, especially after hearing from my D1 about how several of her friends dropped one of their foundation courses around Thanksgiving. “They’ll just take it again in the summer” . . . my hand smacked my head - then I mentioned how unfortunate it was that this option was NOT available to us. Things happen and plans have to be changed so of course it’s a case by case basis in reality - still, I’d argue that if my kid were dropping courses during her first semester at art school then art school probably isn’t a good fit . . .
D2 wants to major in animation and minor in Storyboarding at SCAD. VERY hard to make those fit w/o spending a summer term or something. We’ll have to talk to an academic advisor before she commits to enrolling there. She’s also looking at UCF and I’ve already done the research to know that she’d need to spend at least 2-3 summer terms there in order to graduate “on time”. The sooner these extra costs are known, the better. And ideally before the enrollment fee is sent off.
The main problem is that these schools are just too expensive. If tuition was, say, $1,000 per year, as it is in Europe, we would not think much of attending an extra semester. I also feel that some private schools have cut back expenses on low-level administration–including advising. One of my daughters at a private school got some poor advice recently. Also, many students receive scholarships from high school and private foundations that often only apply to freshman year. When these scholarships are not renewed, the tuition becomes too high.
@Mamelot I agree with @woodwinds except that I don’t know anything about tuition in Europe. I say that because taking summer classes at these schools is really expensive. They cost over $1000 per credit. Look into getting liberal arts courses out of the way at community college which you can do for a few hundred dollars total in most states. Do it the first two summers because they usually limit the credits they’ll accept from outside to lower level courses as well limit the total number of credits you can transfer in.
Also, where we got snagged is that a lot of my S required classes are only offered at certain times of the year and are prerequisites to other classes. So, he had to wait a year to take a required class that is prerequisite to 3 other classes which are only offered sequentially with no way to knock one or two out in the summer.
My son got a half tuition scholarship and it’s still expensive.
And the advising is bad. We feel like part-time academic advisors for our S because the advising is so bad.
I understand the advisors issues. When my S started, there was a new university president that changed the entire curriculum to graduate, then he left and they got an interim president and now there is a new president. 3 presidents in 4 years can mix things up a bit.
And I support going to these schools. His art has improved tremendously. His knowledge has increased tremendously too.
It’s just nowhere near as simple as just sending them to college and letting them find their way though.
@madaboutx sorry if I’m being nosy here - are you talking about RISD, by any chance?
Edit to add: the reason I ask is that a relative of mine also had to repeat a year there because she changed her major. One of the least flexible curriculums, in my experience - my husband and I viewed those departments as a group of little guilds - credits didn’t seem to transfer among them.
If you are discussing another school then we at least know there are TWO such schools out there (maybe three - Pratt seems pretty structured to me as well, although I don’t have any anecdotes yet of anyone having to repeat a year other than for reasons of dropping classes).
@Mamelot - UArts is the one.