I think GPA is a better correlation than SAT but again still has its faults (as explained by XoxDreamerXox). To me “smartness” is about applying yourself and giving your all. I respect a 3.8 or less who worked hard and challenged themselves rather than a 4.0 who just crusied along. While saying this, Im not discrediting any 4.0 ers because there are definitely some people with 4.0 who work extremely hard
@jdschooled5 rofl
@qwerytiop Not true. I didn’t even break a sweat for a 3.78 GPA…getting it to a 3.854 was another story.
My GPA is lower than I feel it should be because I’m so bad at math/science and that’s half the core curriculum lmaoo
@XoXdreamerXoX Maybe its just how we view classes. I have more problems with homework than tests; I almost never study for tests, but homework is really hard for me to focus on.
I have a 3.78 with a really large number of AP’s and honors classes. I can get it to a 3.81 by the end of this semester pretty confidently.
Relationship between income and SAT scores: not simple. Not just a matter of poor students not having resources. Far more complex than that. Consider the parents of the students now taking the SATs. Sometimes people who are poor are poor because they did not go very far in school. And although it is not PC to say, those who dropped out may include those who were doing poorly because they were not as competent/smart/quick. There is a genetic component to IQ. But it is more complex than that too. Parents without education are more likely not to get prenatal care and are more likely to have smoked and used other substances before and during pregnancy. Then they are more likely to live in a community with failing schools and to attend school with students who are less engaged in school than those in other communities. It is a complex issue.
@lostaccount While SAT is related to genetics (parent’s IQ) and resources (family income), I would say one’s SAT score is greatly related to one’s hard work. I have friends whose parents have paid tens of thousands for SAT tutors and college consultant, yet their kids still do poorly on the SAT because they would rather party than study. I also have friends who have never had SAT tutors even though their parents are capable of paying for it because they simply don’t have time or don’t feel the need for them.
The generalization that every well-off person with a high standardized test score achieved it because their parents paid for it is incredibly unfair and untrue. Before I took my ACT, I spent a week with the red book and got a fairly decent score, but the fact that people believe in the positive correlation between “income and SAT scores” worries me that admissions officers will see my test scores and attribute it to my genetics and private tutoring rather than my own hard work in school.
This is in no way directed at you. Just my rants caused by this stressful time. I understand you’re trying to make the point that one’s SAT scores is not just related to income.
Oh my God this thread has gotten so annoying. Nobody is going attribute your high test scores to the fact that you’re rich. And the argument that school and life in general is easier for rich people isnt a novel or shocking idea, it’s easily supported by facts and in almost every major analysis on inner-city schooling. If you have access to better schools or testing services, obviously your score will most likely be higher.
Nobody is treating you “unfairly” because you’re rich. The simple fact is that it’s harder for poor people and people from poor schools to succeed. The correlation between income and test scores is simply true, they aren’t “believing” something that isn’t real, it’s an obvious fact.
Not everything is “hard work”, there are obvious barriers to entry, and there’s a reason why different groups are held to different standards. If you really think that “hard work” is all it takes to score well and that your achievements are not at least indirectly related to your schooling and upbringing, then I’m sorry to say that you’re severely out of touch with the less fortunate members of the high school community. Rich people goimg “woe is me” really isn’t fun to see.
@TheAtlantic If you assume that academic achievements are related to schooling and upbringing and “hard work” is not all it takes to score well, then how would you explain poor/inner-city kids who do score extremely well on the SATs? If not everything is “hard work”, then how do people from inner-city backgrounds end up becoming CEOs of major companies etc.?
I agree with @kuriosmind - I think that SAT scores are predominantly relative to effort/“hard work” rather than income. My parents’ (and my) expectations of my achievement and the effort I put into getting good grade have always been high from the time I was younger and we were living paycheck to paycheck to now, when my family is considered middle-class.
Also, one last thing: if people say “you can’t understand what it’s like being poor because you’re rich”, then please don’t make assumptions about what it’s like to be well-off. Being rich does not solve all your problems. It might solve some (like consistently having a roof over your head), but it creates other problems too.
A lot of people disregard the fact that there are a lot of mental health problems at pressure-cooker schools because they figure “oh, they’re rich; they can afford treatment”. But the truth is, many well-off families refuse to believe in mental health issues and often dismiss them as “a phase” or “a quirk”, so the kids are left to deal with it themselves. I mean, a lot of people in my school start drinking/smoking pot in 7th grade and get addicted to it, but it isn’t really talked about despite the fact that it has serious physical and mental consequences.
TL;DR: I think that we should all try to be more understanding of each other’s problems; putting down other people’s problems as somehow lesser than your own just because you’re rich and they’re poor or you’re poor and they’re rich is very narrow-minded.
Also, it is hard to succeed when there is no expectation for academic success in the household. This can hold true whether you’re “poor” or “rich”.
Obviously there are going to be exceptions to this, but I’ve seen this happen a lot.
I got into all the Ivies. Also, I have a 8.0 GPA and got a 40 on the ACT.
GET ON MY LEVEL!
@TheAtlantic =D> =D> ^:)^ ^:)^
Just adding my 2 cents:
There is probably a correlation between low income and low SAT scores because most that live in low-income households are first generation and therefore have parents who are either not supportive or not knowledgeable enough to be supportive. I know my parents couldn’t care less if I go to college or get a good score on the SAT, much less my rank that I’ve been working so hard on the past year and a half.
@TheAtlantic If no one is going to attribute students’ high test scores to the fact that their families are rich, then why are people excusing students’ low test scores based on the fact that they’re poor?
You’ve even said and I quote:
“Not everything is “hard work”, there are obvious barriers to entry, and there’s a reason why different groups are held to different standards”
Even if you’re not penalizing students for being wealthy, if the system favours some people based on their background, then it would be unfair for other people who do not fit the requirements.
I have never said poor people have lesser problems. My family went bankrupt when I was young and I had to not only face years of poverty, but also fear for my safety everyday. You can’t just assume someone has never experienced poverty. I don’t dwell on that time in my life, and I would never exploit my story for pity, but I’m more than happy to share the hardships I went through.
I know poor people also work hard to achieve a better life but never got the chance to succeed. I never said it was wrong for them to want to accept a system that works in their favour in balancing out wealth inequality.
The fact is: (most) rich people benefit in their resources, and (most) poor people benefit in the standards they’re held to. Doesn’t that even it out for everyone (in terms of college admissions)?
It’s hard to convince people of my point when they have already chosen to believe that “they’re losing out” based on their own backgrounds. I only shared my opinion because the subject was brought up by another user and I was tired of the one sided arguments on this site.
On a lighter note, I think ice cream tastes so much better when the temperature is sub 40 degrees 
For many families, poverty and the student being first generation actually means the parents give more support to the kid and encourage them to do well in school.
@QueenN22 No way! The prime time for ice cream is in the summer! The only benefit of winter is that all the ice cream is on sale!
@kuriosmind Everyone is hot and sweaty and cant really enjoy the ice cream flavour. Now I can take my time and quit worrying about the ice cream melting too fast
Just realized I spell flavor using the British way. I think I prefer it though
How exactly do we know if colleges received our stuff if they are sent before the deadline. So if I order my SATs and my guidance counselor and teachers mail out the recommendations but I don’t submit my app through Common App until November 1st, how will I know if the college received the stuff.