High School Junior, Struggling. Chance me please?

Chance Me / Match Me
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With some recrafting and smart targeting you can have a very successful application season but right now you have a pretty risky list in my opinion. I understand your not liking many of the schools that fit your stats and agree it can be a challenge but they are out there, you just have to look a little harder and deeper, get a little creative and be open to looking at a wide variety of schools and casting a wide net. Your GPA and lower grades in the more rigorous classes hurt you, as does the downward trend (which coincided with the harder classes, at least on paper). Test scores will help but GPA is equally important, if not more so. Overall rigor is important as well. Will they see you as a smart slacker? Maybe. Or just a student who is really great at standardized tests. Either way, being prepared for that is part of the process though. I agree, writing about the D is cliché. You’ve done so many more interesting things!

In my opinion, you may be better off with an EA strategy versus ED, unless you will have a 1st quarter report card that shows a strong senior year trend to include with an ED app to help offset that D (and the B- in PreCalc). Repeating Physics it though, doing well, and including that transcript will definitely help and is a smart move on your part! What does your senior year course load look like, is it at risk for similar issues anywhere?

Your EC’s are very nice. Does your school provide rank? If not that will help as that may hurt you otherwise.

Liberal arts schools will not offer enviro engineering outside of a 3-2 program and I would not advise those. And, given the pre-calc and physics grades I am not sure engineering would be the best choice for long term success. Engineering is a lot of hard math and science, kids who aced those classes in HS struggle with it in college. I would focus on LAC’s that offer the ENVS stuff you want, have music and have Spanish. My S17 is looking for some similar items program wise and music wise (higher GPA and rigor but lower test scores so semi similar) and most of the schools you list have not popped up as especially strong in environmental studies in our research, with so many on the reach side (too many) I’d really try to narrow it down by program fit as well as ones that have the best reachy odds.

I personally think your GC is very optimistic (and giving you some false hope) with her rankings, yes the D killed your gpa but that one grade would not have magically turned all the reaches into matches. Even if stats match, you have a number of lower admission rate schools with which your stats, is not ideal at all. What I mean by that is, even though you may meet the “average” stats, or are in the 25th% or up….if the acceptance rate is only 15-50% your odds are still not in your favor and I wouldn’t count them as safeties. Or even matches/targets in some cases. To be a true safety you need to be in the 75th percentile and/or have schools that have acceptance rates in the 70’s. For higher stats kids, acceptances in the 60’s may due but I wouldn’t count on it personally.

Do you have Naviance at your school? If so look at the acceptance rates and stats for your list and see how you compare. Bard and Hampshire are on the alternative side of things and quite different than some of the others on this list so I’d make sure that is a fit for you. Both were on early lists for us and have fallen off for that reason. What on your list have you already visited? You also mention cost in regards to both BU and Drexel (as being too high), have you run cost models on all of these to see if they are viable financially? Dream schools aren’t very dreamy if you can’t afford them.

I agree with these as potential fits/additions to targets/matches. Muhlenberg, Ithaca, Syracuse, Clark, Clarkson, Temple, College of the Atlantic (not sure it’s a safety though) and I’d add in Ursinus. Syracuse offers the ability to take classes at SUNY-ESF which, from a major standpoint, could be nice. I believe all have decent ENVS and music. Bennington might be a match but again, possibly too alternative and I’m not sure of their music options. Have you looked at UVM? Strong Enviro program, University of Maine as well. Bear in mind a college rep (party, etc) is largely what you make of it and what you choose to be involved in.

Personally, I don’t see a true safety on your list, I see Drexel and Hampshire as both matches stats wise and not the best fit based on programs and environment. You need to find 2-3 safeties that you can be happy at. I don’t know enough about east coast options to offer more than that but agree that at least one with rolling admissions would be nice to have in the mix. U of Maine might be an option on the safety side of things.

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@SpacemanEd

Hi!

It sure doesn’t feel like that now, but I suppose it is better that I struggled for the first time in high school rather than in college.

Experience = Successes + (Obstacles + Remediation) <— I brought this up in my MHC interview, and my interviewer loved it and said it was a very mature statement to make! Thank you for your advice.

Google the Princeton prof’s “Resume of Failures”. Pretty much sums it up. <---- I read this as part of my AP Psych summer assignment. The 2016 meta-failure is quite funny, haha.

Thank you for everything!

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Being the first to attend college in America is an awesome plus. Make sure to play that up in an interview and in your application.

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@shielapathukare In another of your threads, you said you’d gotten a 2330 single sitting (and were even planning on retaking it!). Based on this thread, was that incorrect?

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@eandesmom
Thank you for such a thorough reply! Sorry, I was without access to CC for a few days as I visited some colleges in MA, so I did not see this until today.

I have narrowed my reaches down to TCNJ, MHC, and Skidmore. If I apply ED to any of these, do I have a better chance? Which college would I have the best chance at if I apply ED?

Yes - I have looked at some CTCL schools as well.

Unfortunately, my school is very fast-paced and advanced in the STEM field - more so than other schools. As I am attending the community college physics course over the summer now, I am with students from schools such as UPenn and Cooper Union who are taking the class to meet a pre-req, and my math and physics skills seem week on paper but are actually quite strong. Unfortunately, there is no way I can prove this to colleges until I am in college.

However, I want to mention somewhere that I considered it to be a learning experience, not a failure. I also want to mention that the class was AP Physics 1 and 2 squished into 2 semesters instead of into 4 semesters like it should be.Also, I am taking this entire 7 week course over the summer (compromising on time that could be spent on ACT and SAT 2 prep) on physics so that I can write about it on my essay.

My senior year workload is much more conducive to my academic skills. I am taking AP Bio, AP Psych, a variation on an AP College Composition class for English, some honors classes, and a highly exclusive Spanish class at Princeton University. I am not at risk for any such slips, because AP Bio is much easier for me and my school’s Bio classes are ] less rigorous than their AP Physics and AP math classes. However, will it hurt me that I never took an AP math?
I was thinking of applying ED because I know that I will have a much better first quarter next year. My choices of ED are Skidmore, MHC, and TCNJ. Are those colleges reasonable?

Thank you. And no, thankfully it does not because my school is so competitive, some years ago a lot of parents got violent when their children were not in the top 10%. However, I am at least in the top 50%

I am no longer considering environmental engineering. I am considering environmental policy and eventually want to pursue it in law school as an environmental lawyer. I visited Bryn Mawr just for the heck of it the other day, and they offered a 3-2 engineering program with UPenn. It is too rigorous, and although I am not necessarily bad at physics I don’t think I would be happy doing math all day. Thanks for the advice!

I’ve narrowed it down to this:
Reaches: TCNJ, MHC, and Skidmore (would apply to all ED)
Matches: Drexel, still looking for more… maybe TCNJ falls here? Not sure
Safeties: Not sure… maybe Rowan?

Do these schools have stronger environmental programs than all those schools I listed before?

Thanks, it is good that I am now being realistic. The reaches I am considering now are TCNJ, MHC, and Skidmore. I will apply ED to the one that I choose.

I’m confused about Naviance… It shows me a 24% acceptance rate to Rutgers but a much higher acceptance rate to say, Lehigh. This does not seem accurate. My school is very competitive, and the average Rutgers GPA is about a 3.7-3.8.

Thank you for these options - I will consider them. I am definitely looking at Ursinus. I visited Clark and I liked the school, but it was in a very impoverished neighborhood.

OK - thank you. I will consider other colleges. This is a so extraordinarily disappointing - I know that I am much more capable and I have worked my butt off throughout high school both academically and in my ECs- its not like I’ve ever slacked off. Meanwhile, kids who are naturally smarter than me but who have slacked off will get into much better schools. Oh well, I guess it is what it is. I will never go to a prestigious school, which is very embarrassing coming from the school that I’m in bc everyone goes to top tier schools. Maybe I’ll start considering community colleges because I am so screwed. I can’t believe this - I tried so hard and I was so conscientious throughout school - not a single integrity violation, day gone without studying, or even a social life because I was always so busy. I guess this is my fate. I switched from a small, all girls private school (the PERFECT environment for me) to this giant, ruthless factory of a school and now I can’t even go back to a similar school like my old private school for college because my grades are so abysmal. A combination of godawful teachers, biased teachers, ruthless classmates (only 4 girls in my AP Physics class…), and a raging illness my Sophomore year during which I still persevered - NONE of this is reflected in my grades. I am going to have a breakdown - nothing is worth it anymore. I might even drop AP Bio so I can at least enjoy my senior year - why take a demanding AP Science when I’m so screwed anyways? I might as well spend the extra time sleeping.

But Thank you for all your input! That was a true reality check, but also slightly (very) disheartening. Thank you for taking the time! I would be so grateful if you could chance me ED for Skidmore, TCNJ (not my top choice though), and MHC. Thanks.

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@ambitionsquared Hi, I had taken several practice SATs at home and had received that score. However, clearly it didn’t turn out that way. At home, I’ve been receiving 34-35s on my ACT so I should probably expect a 32-34 on test day. Thanks! Would you be able to chance me ED on Skidmore, TCNJ, and MHC? If not, that is fine. Thank you!

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@GAB444 Haha, I did! Thanks!

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Ed Skidmore or MHC.

Colleges such as College of the Atlantic is well-known foe environmental issues. Warren Wilson or Lewis and Clark also.
There’s nothing wrong Other the colleges listed. They’d probably be more satisfying to you than Rowan since you’re not going for engineering, and they’d take your story into account (which large State schools can’t do.)
It’s not your grades actually - but an unhooked girl applying to northeastern LACs faces higher odds than anyone else. If you want prestigious LACs don’t choose those where everyone else applies, but rather top colleges where you’ll bring geographical diversity (IE., bonus for you) , look at the Midwest and South.

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Definitely look at LAC’s in the Midwest as there are some great schools that fit your profile. St. Olaf, College of Wooster and Denison come to mind.

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@MYOS1634 Thank you. Unfortunately, I’m not allowed to go too far from home, so I have to rule out COA. I had looked at it online a while ago though, and it seems to offer a variety of disciplines in the environmental studies sector, whereas most regular LA schools only offer environmental science.
So I should not ED TCNJ? It really isn’t my top choice, as I really want to get out of NJ and meet international and OOS students, but its always a safe option considering it’s extremely practical tuition (my parents have agreed to pay for 80% of my grad and 100% of my undergrad if I go to a school with a tuition less than 20k!).
So EDing Skidmore and MHC isnt a futile decision? I really want to make sure that I don’t waste my ED on something too out of the reach. Skidmore’s ED is almost 70% while MHC’s is only 56%… 1% more than RD (but a smaller sample size, ofc).
Thank you for all your help!

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@Chembiodad Thanks, but I am not allowed to look farther than the NE. Unfortunately, as @MYOS1634 mentioned, my categorization as a female, Asian with relatively noncompetitive grades looking at NE competitive LA colleges is a big minus. But I’ll try my best to convince my parents! I love St. Olaf - I’ve heard a lot of great things about it. I’ll definitely check out the other two colleges as well. Thank you.

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Would your parents reconsider their stance regarding distance if it meant cheaper schools or more prestigious schools?
You don’t need the Ed boost to get into tcnj. Apply relatively early for the scholarships but without the Ed commitment since you really don’t want to go there.
Any PhD worth pursuing will be funded. Med school will be 300k. Are your parents aware of that?
What do the NPC say?
So, your parents in effect say they’ll pay 16k. What’s your efc?
Because even tcnj costs more than that. It’s quite possible this amounts means none of the schools on your list is possible.

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With a 32 ACT, you’d definitely get into Tulane! Consider it your target school!

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I am confused. If you are looking for schools that have tuition at 20K, most of your list is not affordable. That is a huge issue. I completely understand and empathize with your disappointment but grades aside, if that 20K is a real number you really need to rethink things to factor that in. It is up to you to decide how to approach this. You can be melodramatic and state you’ll just go to a CC as nothing else meets your standards and how unfair it all is because of this or that reason, or you can challenge yourself to find the best school for you, where you’ll be successful, happy to attend and can share that with the world. Unfortunately, you seem very caught up in east coast prestige name hype, versus what may or may not be the right school for you. It is true, you are an unhooked Asian girl competing for the same spots thousands of others want. You can turn this to your advantage, find a hidden gem that the rest of your world is not going after. That makes it yours, unique and not what everyone else is doing.

As for your senior year, no, for your major area of interest not having AP math will not hurt you. However, not having a math class senior year (at all) will. I didn’t see one on your list. For ED, you need to think about when you’ll have a progress report as to whether a more successful senior year first semester can have much impact, or not. Typically, most kids will not be done with that first semester at ED or EA application time so all you’ll have is a progress report (if that) to include in an app. Better grades will help some but it will be noted that it’s less rigorous than your junior year so overall it may be a wash. Not sure to be honest.

So, bearing in mind 20k, your stats and your parents requirement that you stay east coast. Have you run the Net Price Calculators on any of these schools to see if you can expect any offers at all? They are very helpful.

** Your reach list **

TCNJ. 18K in tuition and fees for in state (this is in state for you I believe). Affordable. This is a solid match for you, not a reach (unless there is a different College of New Jersey lol!)

MHC. 48K in tuition and fees. Not affordable. Overall admission rate at 54%, your stats put you below the bottom quartile for GPA and around 50% for test scores. ED would up your odds but it is binding. If you can’t afford it, that makes absolutely no sense.

Skidmore. 50K in tuition and fees. Not affordable. Overall admission rate at 37%. I’d put your stats about the same here as at MHC .

Which for ED? You don’t need ED at TCNJ but given that it is affordable, it would be a very solid way to go. For the others, the overall admission rate is lower at Skidmore so I think MHC has slightly better odds for you and is the better school for Environmental studies so that would be my pick. BUT it isn’t affordable and ED is binding, you can only apply to one and if accepted you must attend. That is a contract both you and your parents will have to sign. Will they sign off on a 50k tuition school binding contract? This does not seem like an option you can consider.
Bottom line is only one of these is affordable. How will you make you make up the difference? You, personally, have limits on how much you can borrow and your parents have only committed to 16K as it is. I assume they are covering the remainder of COA, it’s just the tuition that has a limit?

Specifically:

TCNJ. You’d have to come up with 2k annually on your own. This is within the federal student loan limits, or could even be saved over the summer with monies earned by working.
MHC and Skidmore. You have a 28-30K shortfall at these. You can only borrow 5500 your freshman year, leaving you 22,500-24,500 short. Summer work monies, and/or a job during the school year might net another 3K or so +/- but you are still going to be a solid 20k short. Are the calculators suggesting grants at those amounts? If they are not, the schools are simply not an option for you.

Are your parents really not looking at the finances with you?

A few other things. I would really counsel against focusing on the summer retake of physics as an essay topic. Colleges will see that on the transcript and they have zero interest in an essay that justifies/explains performance. If it is about what you learned about yourself, that can be ok but take a step back. You are trying to prove to them why they should want you and how your grades don’t really reflect that, and that is exactly what they do not want. What colleges want in an essay is an expression of that student’s personality in a way that shows what the student would add to their college. What is it that makes you different, special, unique or interesting? Please do not be offended or discouraged by this but retaking physics isn’t special, unique or interesting. It shows that you care. It shows hard work and dedication and the desire to improve. Your summer transcript showing you took it, with the improved grade, will speak far more to this (and loudly) than dragging it into your essay.

All of this
-dancer since 6 y.o (will give solo 4 hour debut performance summer after senior year)
-cellist since 7 y.o(play for prestigious local youth orchestra & school honors orchestra)
-heavily involved in schools Amnesty International club (but no official leadership role)
-volunteering at local hospital since freshman yr, 100+ hrs
-youth justice advocate at family court since junior yr. Super cool and unique experience where I provide advice and stuff to lower income students who have committed crimes.
-string quartet club at school
-got a job at local market summer before senior yr. Work aligns with what I’m interested in - sustainable agriculture, protecting environment.
-Spanish Honors Society (will hopefully get more next year)

Is SO much more interesting to hear about than retaking physics! Some of the best essays can be about the smallest things.

I am glad you have moved on from engineering as that doesn’t seem to suit your academic skills and policy aligns far more with your self selected EC’s. That said, I’d really reconsider environmental law. It pains me to say this but the legal field is not something I’d encourage ANYONE to go into right now. Unprecedented numbers of law school graduates unable to find work, burdened with huge loans. It’s a horrid state of affairs but it is not a good field in general and enviro is on the lower end of that scale. You can have policy impact without going to law school.

As for the rest of your list

** Matches**

TCNJ belongs here, as does Rutgers. I know you don’t want to go to Rutgers but it is a solid school, and it is affordable within your parent’s budget. You need to apply here.

Why Drexel? It is not known for Environmental and it kind of technical, no nonsense type of school, very different from the liberal arts feel you are drawn to.

Tulane does not seem like a school you can consider if your parents are limiting you to New England. And while your stats might put you on in the match category, it’s overall admission rate puts it into the reach area. And…tuition and fees are 50k.

I have to run but will come back with some NE specific ideas for you in the match/safety area that are strong in Environmental. Can you list what states are ok to consider? Which are maybes and which are absolutely no’s? That will help folks a lot and it sounds like you’ve been given pretty specific guidelines on just how far you can go.
Please don’t be discouraged, there are tons of wonderful people here to help you find amazing options and the more we know about budget and stats, the more we can help.

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OP, have you run the net price calculator on Mount Holyoke and Skidmore, then shown results to your parents ? Would they agree to flip the undergrad /grad school financing ratio ?
Net price may not be what you have to pay. But if your parents ’ income is in the 180+k category then these colleges won’t be affordble.
Also, the Ed contract is binding as long as the college is affordable - you can try to negotiate but unlike the RD round you don’t have any leverage, so no matter how happy you are you for in, if they don’t negotiate and it’s not affordable, you’ll have to take them off the table.
I’d pick MHC for Ed for the same reason as stated above.
100% agree do NOT write about retaking physics for your essay. Focus on something that makes you unique and interesting. Look at examples on the website essayhell, on Connecticut college or jhu or Hamilton websites.

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OP, What is your EFC? That will help determine how affordable or not your reaches are. If your family has non-standard circumstances (owns a business etc) then the NPC will not be of much help but I would really encourage you to run it. Be aware if you had income in 2015, that will be factored in as well. In most scenarios we are a full pay family. Private LAC’s can define need differently and therefore be more generous however the level of generosity will vary quite a bit by school.

By way of example, MHC calculates our EFC about 5K lower than FAFSA does, for whatever that is worth and we are full pay with FAFSA. It shows the difference as a grant (the difference being what MHC defines as “need”). Their NPC does not show any merit awarded, published data shows 10-20k. That said, only 18% of undergraduates received a merit award so it is not at all something to count on, in fact I would assume zero in merit. You would need MHC to come up with about 24k in defined need grants to fit your budget (which means your EFC needs to be 24k or more below MHC’s total COA if that makes sense). You’ll only know that that looks like if you run the net price calculator.

Skidmore came in similar (difference between their definition of our EFC versus FAFSA) though their tuition (and thus total COA) is higher and their merit is worse, only 6.5% received any.

In looking at it more closely, I am not sure that MHC is actually any stronger in environmental studies, I suspect they are relatively equal. Both are ok (not really known for it), but as you’ve a slightly better chance at MHC, it’s slightly less expensive and a bit more generous on the merit side it is the all-around better option.Bottom line is both are very popular schools full of kids and families willing to be full pay at 65+K total COA price tags and that is what you are competing against, as well as stats.For us, similar stat student (higher gpa but lower test scores, higher rigor, your EC’s may be a bit better) and a full pay FAFSA family looking to get total COA at 36K or lower (so not dissimilar from your parent’s 20k tuition goal) neither of these come in as affordable.

However. Theoretically IF you determine that somehow both area affordable, based on their dates, you could try MHC for ED1 and if not accepted, Skidmore for their ED2 and still be ok to try anywhere/everywhere else EA or even RD, I’d send all those in early, before or at the same time as the MHC application. You will want to apply as early as possible across the board to increase your chances for merit monies as well as any defined need aid. to an extent it is a first come first service business for those monies.

MATCHES
As for matches that meet your stats, and your parents budget and geographical restrictions a few thoughts. This is all environmental science or generally based, you’d want to look at their Spanish options and I am not sure if you hope to keep dancing or not while in college. All of these have tuition in the 44-50 range. The question becomes what kind of offer will they make to bring it down. Ones listed, in our research, seem to have the greatest potential in your area.

Allegheny Strong in ENVS, nice LAC, CTCL and is closer to your target $$. Tuition is around 44K but their average award is significantly higher than your reach schools both in need based and merit based. When I run their numbers in our scenario the grant/scholarship numbers are much more favorable and as such, is on my son’s list.

Clarkson Strong in ENVS, generous with merit and aid, wonderful reputation. The only reason it is not on our list is it doesn’t offer music.

University of Vermont is a low reach/match. They do weight class rank very heavily so that could hurt you since your school does rank on what type of award but for a state school it is a much more manageable size than most and known for ENVS.

You may want to keep Clark on the list if you liked the school. Many amazing schools aren’t in the best of general areas and that doesn’t’ negate the school at all if it is the right fit for you. I didn’t find their net price to come down low enough for us but it is strong in ENVS.

St. Lawrence is known for ENVS but it is not likely to come down low enough for you, they will offer some money but probably not enough.

Ursinus. Not necessarily known for ENVS but would likely be sufficient, similar funding options to Allegheny. It is on our list.

Goucher. Also not necessarily known for ENVS but should be ok. They showed a nice 15K scholarship at our stats, my S won’t consider Maryland so it came off but could be a solid option for you both admission and $$ wise.

Temple. Maybe larger than you want but lots of options in your areas. They have not released their new merit info so it’s tough to say financially but I’d keep it on your radar.

Muhlenberg. I’ve not found the net price to come down low enough for it to stay on our list however higher test scores could bring a different result. It does offer nice merit and aid (showing 8k scholarship at similar stats) but has a higher starting price tag and defined our need as lower than the others, meaning the net came in higher than I was comfortable with pursuing.

Hampshire is likely to be potentially affordable, did you tour? It seems more alternative than you want but curious if you toured and liked it.

** Drexel** run the Net Price calculator on it. I know you have it on your match list but I really suspect it is not going to be affordable for you.

SAFETIES. I am quite sure there are more but I am not familiar at all with the reputation of most so hesitant to suggest too many and all should be looked at more closely to see if they are safeties versus matches. Technically a safety means you are in their upper 75% and/or they have a very high admission rate. The reality is most schools where you will fall in the upper 75% aren’t schools you are interested in so I’d focus on high admission rates, making sure you are at least in the 50th percentile and looking at your own schools naviance results.

You should have at least 2 safeties on your list that you could be happy with. A few thoughts are:

Rowan
Seton Hall
Ramapo
University of Maine

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OP I am not so sure that Smith shouldn’t stay on your reach list. I don’t know that I see it as being any more reachy for you than Skidmore and it may offer better aid than Skidmore (though will still be out of price range I suspect). Your odds are better at Skidmore, stats wise but if one is more affordable than the other (though neither seem to be) and relatively equally reachy…might be something to consider.