High school teachers: authority figures and mentors--or BFF and "Mom"?

berurah · May 23, 2007, 4:51pm

This was ABSOLUTELY the case in our district. This yearbook was a radical departure from previous ones, and it coincided with the hiring of a woman whose main focus was winning “awards.” There is NO question whatsoever that this woman orchestrated these kids’ “choices” and then called them theirs (and left them with the mess to clean up).

Ironically, there apparently were some valuable lessons learned in this whole thing. One of the girls who co-edited the yearbook came up to my D recently and had a very nice discussion with her. She told my D that due to all that came down this year, she was abandoning her choice of journalism as a major next year because she didn’t care for the general type of people who worked in the field–she felt that they were more committed to riling things up than working with others. Though earlier in the year, she had been a media spokesperson for the journalism teacher’s side of the debate, she subsequently rethought the issue and told my D that she understood my points very clearly and in fact, had come to agree with our thinking. I thought this was extremely interesting coming from someone who had had a responsible position with respect to producing the yearbook. I actually have a great deal of respect for this young lady, who stopped talking long enough to listen for a minute… ;)

~berurah

Opie_ofMaybery2 · May 23, 2007, 5:37pm

“Opie, I feel that you do not make any distinction between adults and children”
Sometimes there isn’t. Sorry.

“While you may think anything goes, that there are no boundaries on what is tasteful or appropriate, you deprive other students of the right to a yearbook that they don’t have to deface in order to enjoy”

Or deprive students of what they want?? It’s not a matter of anything goes, it’s a matter of what they want. It’s theirs, you’re just visiting.

“one that is not intentionally offensive to others.”

So is this where we sew the letter on the poor pregnant girls blouse and strike her from the yearbook? because she’s offensive?

Da ever think a spread on teen pregancy “might” be a deterent?

“Do you not see the role of judgement in determining something that meets the needs of most students”

What I see is a committee of students working together to put together a reflection of THEIR time at school. While an advisor can advise against something… it would really need to be along the line legality. These are also young adults who may not share your or my views on the world. While it is easy to throw your hands up and say Opie doesn’t get it cause he doesn’t see it my way (as many of you do) it doesn’t make it so. It just makes it your opinion, you have one, just as those kids do.

“but free speech is more important than most things, imo.:” Amen! I don’t like forms of free speech, but to enjoy the ones I like, I learn to tolerate the others.

“there have been conflicts where I live as to which books are in the library or assigned for English. A small faction of parents are against certain books.”

Do we also allow parents to ban the “Harry Potter Club” in the yearbook because it promotes witchcraft?

“Even if these were forbidden to be in a yearbook, the activities still exist. Keeping quiet about them doesn’t solve anything. It just puts it in a closet”

Bingo. problem’s not solved, just hidden. Like the girls who used to have to visit the “home” on the hill above my house…All were teens, all were pregnant. They just were “away” visiting their aunts.

“Some things are considered bad taste but I am not sure whose standard of what is bad taste should be the ones used. One thing I would not want to see is a certain group of parents deciding for everyone else. In the incidents in our school, it was a minority who wanted to set the standard for everyone else as to what was OK for the classroom or not.”

Spot on.

B with your stuff I’m confused. Your posts always seem to come back to what wasn’t in there and your offense about that. Would you be as upset if everything you wanted was there AND what you felt was put there in it’s place together? Your writting always seems to come back to feeling slighted.

“I don’t know why pot smoking would be included in a yearbook, unless it is a school activity or club? (sorry, couldn’t resist . . .)”

Did you check the intermurals section?

“In fact, I HAVE shown my kids mine as I was an All-American diver and a high school state champion…and also one of TEN selected out of a class of 525 kids for all-around excellence in academics (I graduated 5th in our class) and athletics, etc. But then, our school VALUED those things highly and showed that valuation by commemorating those accomplishments.”

I’m sure it was a great time… how bout lately?

“As such, to give excessive coverage to kids who are taking part in maladaptive behaviors TO THE EXCLUSION of those who are doing the “right thing” is an excusable manifestation of the faux self esteem movement that is so denigrated here on CC. In short, if someone has chosen to commit himself to positive, school sponsored activites, HE IS MORE DESERVING to be featured in a book that is put out by the institution to which he has committed his time and talents”

So you’re really mad about what was left out or put in? It sounds to me you’re mad because of what wasn’t in there and wouldn’t have gone to the lengths you have IF what you wanted was there. no? And remeber jesus is listening be honest.

Hey, ya know my kids are great kids as I am sure yours are. Where they undervalued by their peers in HS? YES. How long has this been going on? Since the first HS was created. There’s a 1% because 99% value something else. To be upset that the 99% doesn’t appreicate the 1% enough isn’t going to change ever.

Is it fair? not to me. Is it right? not to me. What should I do… live my short life in as much happiness as possible. Our yearbooks didn’t award my kids all they deserved… but ya know what? By senior year they were so ready to get the hell out of there and move on with their lifes it really didn’t matter. They were already trying to figure out how to finish grad school.

Not everyone wants to be AL Bundy in life. HS is just a small step on the rung of a full life.

wharfrat2 · May 23, 2007, 5:51pm

My problem is not really with the appropriateness or inappropriateness of the content. It sounds to me as if the yearbook dealt with some issues that were perhaps better addressed in a different venue, i.e. the school paper.

My problem is that it seems to me that B has been very smug and proud of the fact that she was part of this successful assault on a young teacher’s judgement and/or character.

A young teacher made a mistake in judgement. Should the principal address it? Absolutely. Should the teacher learn some valuable lessons from the mistake? Hopefully. Should she be pilloried, vilified, and run out of town?
No way.

bethievt · May 23, 2007, 6:26pm

At our middle school, the guidance department organized a well thought out presentation on sexual orientation from the standpoint of bullying. They were about to put it on (kids could opt out if parents wanted) when angry scared parents came in (an hour before the presentation, where a gay kid was going to talk about the bullying he’d experienced) and demanded this presentation not happen. The principal folded, but after a lot of community input, the presentation went on at a later date. This was partly a religious issue and I have to come down on the side of separation of church and state. Public schools have to protect ALL the kids who attend. It’s a fine balance, as soozie says. I have never censored what my child could read. He was mildly traumatized by “Where the Red Fern Grows” but I would never storm his middle school and demand the removal of that book from the curriculum.

sjmom2329 · May 23, 2007, 6:54pm

My kids have attended a religious HS, and each grade has presentations on a variety of important social topics by grade level. They’ve had speakers talking about rape, homosexuality, the Holocaust, drug abuse, suicide etc. I don’t recall ever being asked for permission, although we would have given it in any case. They discuss all kinds of issues in religion and ethics classes, and read a ton of literature, some of which might not seem appropriate to some parents. They just don’t address these issues in the yearbook.

kluge · May 23, 2007, 7:38pm

Roshke notes that there’s a First Amendment issue presented, and there is, but probably not the one Roshke was referring to. The first rule regarding freedom of the press is that it only applies to those who own a press - or the functional equivalent. What the students learned here is that the purse strings are held by the people who elect the school board. For better or worse the community gets to decide whether they will support “cutting edge” journalism or require that the yearbook project conform to standards set by the most vocal and persistent parents and others with an axe to grind.

The lesson here, undoubtedly absorbed on one level or another by the students who worked on the yearbook, is that over time the power to determine what will be printed is ultimately not theirs. They don’t own the press. Whatever else you might think about what happened in Kansas, the lesson was valid and valuable.

There’s been a lot of debate here about what a high school yearbook “should” and “should not” contain. Fact is, the production of a yearbook is an academic exercise for those who take the journalism class, the choice to make the production of the item possible is under the control of the school board (which can hire and fire the teacher, as well), and the choice to buy it or not is a free market one. The Constitutional/economic lesson from the flap over the inclusion of pregnant students and tattoos is clear: The people behind the money don’t like it. If you don’t write what your “publisher” wants you won’t have access to that “free press” the Constitution talks about. Journalistic standards may militate in favor of including the tattoo article; economic reality says you’ll get cut off at the knees if you do so. Rupert Murdoch trumps Joseph Pulitzer over what “should be” in the yearbook. It’s a valuable life lesson.

berurah · May 23, 2007, 7:52pm

wharfrat~

I actually truly appreciate your candor here because where I sensed your reaction was a personal reaction against me, I didn’t have confirmation of that until the above post. I really didn’t understand where you were coming from, but at least now I do.

O.K., I’m going to explain this, but I’m not going to take much time because I don’t feel that you are objective enough to read and comprehend and even remotely see things from my side. But, here goes:

Please understand that you are assuming good intent (and a “mistake” in judgment) on the part of this young teacher. This was not the case. Part of our mounting frustration with this set of events hinged on the fact that never, at any time, including NOW, has any person representing our school or our district said that a “mistake in judgment” was made or that anything would be changed/learned from this experience. To the contrary, the only statements issued by a representative of our district stated one thing: that under the KSPA, they were legally covered and that the district was backing the journalism teacher.

You have the scenarios backwards. Where we had issue with the content of the yearbook, we had no personal issue with the journalism sponsor and NEVER, in ANY of our public statements, did we denigrate the teacher or her character. She did not return this kindness. Instead, she stood in front of her journalism class on multiple occasions making personal statements about the parents who had made their dissatisfaction known. This caused untold hurt for my girls and a great deal of strife within the school in general because her loyal students felt it necessary to take my girls to task whenever they would see them. This was wrong…and unprofessional.

This young teacher was not a very good role model for her kids. She led them down one path…to produce an unprecedented yearbook full of controversial material–and then she simply abandoned them when the @#*& hit the fan. The administrators, the school board, and the teacher cowered under their desks and behind the KSPA while leaving their charges to represent that side of the issue with the media. A self-respecting and responsible teacher would have stood by her students and supported them, instead of letting teenagers take the heat for HER actions.

NO ONE had any idea that she was leaving until I saw the school paper a few days ago. No one on our side of the debate asked for her dismissal or her resignation. We hadn’t even considered doing that–and didn’t. Once again, our concern was yearbook CONTENT as it reflects our students and our district, not terminating this woman’s employment.

I still do not know the conditions of her leaving. It has to be one of two things:
1.) Her provisional contract was not renewed. That would mean that this teacher’s administration, which verbally backed her questionable actions all year, abandoned HER at the end and threw her to the wolves…OR

2.) Our administration asked her to compromise and not have a repeat of last year’s publication, and she refused and voluntarily left. This would indicate that she never felt that what she did was a “mistake” as you insinuated above.

I repeat, just for clarity–NO parents asked for her resignation or termination, either publicly or privately. NONE. That was not one of our goals.

About this:

I am going to issue a sincere apology to you and to anyone else who felt that I was being smug. When someone is being attacked with both barrels, one tends to get defensive. I got defensive, and I assumed a stance that is not my typical one. The more you and kluge and opie tried to shame me, the more I wanted to reiterate that I did not then and do not now feel ashamed of my actions. And in my heart, I don’t.

The irony is simply that we NEVER attacked this woman’s character. She did not return this favor. She used her bully pulpit and captive audience to so attack us PERSONALLY that many days, my girls came home close to tears. One kind teacher called up my sensitve middle daughter to ask her if she were o.k. That was the only teacher who showed that concern.

The press coverage HIGHLY favored the side of the school and “free speech.” My associates and I were VILIFIED–in op ed pages, on the radio, etc. The teacher was supported by the only authorities that chose to speak out. In short, you have a very mistaken notion of how this whole thing came down. WE were the ones suffering the attacks–and the young teacher was issuing them.

That is why I have absolutely NO feelings of remorse and regret. It is truly painful for me to recall how difficult it was on my family, particularly my h.s. daughters to have their mother stand up for something she believed in. I’d have really appreciated the ugliness to be kept on a level OUTSIDE of the classrooms of their school, but this teacher did not allow for it.

So, I apologize for any “smugness” that I conveyed. It was offered in defense and truly doesn’t convey my feelings about this all-around very sad and painful set of events.

~berurah

Opie_ofMaybery2 · May 23, 2007, 7:54pm

Really, wasn’t the biggest complaint from kids about how many pictures of the yearbook kids and their friends were in it?

How the faces in the crowd always seemed to have the same faces?

StickerShock · May 23, 2007, 8:00pm

No, Opie. That was YOUR complaint. You criticized the editors of your kids’ yearbooks and said that your kids didn’t get enough recognition. Berurah and her associates were concerned about something much more important.

berurah · May 23, 2007, 8:03pm

If I had to simplify it to this level, opie, I’d have to say that I was more upset with what was included…and WHERE.

When you look in the table of contents of the book and find an academic section (it was entitled ACADEMICS, STRIVING FOR EXCELLENCE) and find not only NOTHING academic, but instead, layouts on teen pregnancy (complete with belly shots and sono pics) and caffeine addiction and study habits that include tacit approval, however “tongue in cheek” it may have been, of cheating from nerds, then this is simply stunningly poor journalism.

I have stated this before, but you really need to realize that NONE of MY OWN kids stood to benefit from the suggestions that I made.

~berurah

Opie_ofMaybery2 · May 23, 2007, 8:08pm

B,

"It has to be one of two things:

1.) Her provisional contract was not renewed. That would mean that this teacher’s administration, which verbally backed her questionable actions all year, abandoned HER at the end and threw her to the wolves…OR

2.) Our administration asked her to compromise and not have a repeat of last year’s publication, and she refused and voluntarily left. This would indicate that she never felt that what she did was a “mistake” as you insinuated above."

You forgot a third possibility B, She found a better gig elsewhere. She isn’t working as a greeter at the Walmart is she? Maybe she found a school district where she can do a good job.

And yes, there is a fourth possibility of maybe not. Not everyone is cut out to be a teacher.

Opie_ofMaybery2 · May 23, 2007, 8:12pm

OH SS, I was wondering when you’d jump in…:)

“No, Opie. That was YOUR complaint”

Nope not it. Not in the least. Don’t care, never did.
“Keep on, keep on, keep on tryin”

I think my complaint was about the music teacher working underage in a bar. That was me wasn’t it? It gets so blurry sometimes… I somehow felt that condoned underaged drinking and promoted bar hopping by 16 year olds. That was me wasn’t it? ;)

berurah · May 23, 2007, 8:16pm

one more thing, wharfrat–a bit of history.

In February, six months before the yearbook was released, the student newspaper chose to cover some controversial content. In fact, two of the precious few pages of the small paper were devoted (full pages, not parts of a full page) to coverage of the pregnant girls, complete with belly shots and sono pics and also to the Holly Ball wedding.

This was the only other student newspaper I ever saw. My girls brought it home, upset that so much of the limited paper space had been spent glorifying behaviors that they felt were not worth the space (my DAUGHTERS felt). Of course, I agreed with them.

At that time, I wrote an email to three people (one email, copied to three people): the h.s. principal, the asst. principal, and the superintendent. In the letter I asked why this material was included and I expessed my mild disapproval. None of the people I emailed chose to answer me. Not with a “Hi, we received your note,” or a “We understand your concerns and would love to speak with you,”…NOTHING. No answer at all. They simply dropped that ball. And I did too…after all, the paper just became stuff to put under our litter boxes and no great harm was done. I never addressed it again.

So, you can imagine that when six months later this yearbook came home, I was quite aggravated. I had shared my concerns in a CALM, decent, and PRIVATE manner, but they had gone unacknowledged, and now, my kids’ permanent memory book contained this same objectionable material.

Please understand that it was THAT aggravation that led me to take my next commentary public to the editorial page. I felt that I had not been listened to in February, and I had NO reason to believe that if I brought another privagte objection, it would be given any more consideration than the first one. So, I chose to express my dissatisfaction publicly, never in my wildest dreams realizing what this would evolve into.

~berurah

hereshoping · May 23, 2007, 8:26pm

This is absurd. You don’t need to apologize for anything, berurah. For anyone with decent enough reading comprehension skills, it had been clear from the start that this had nothing to do with the exclusion of your own kids from the yearbook (and, unlike some, ahem, I read the entire yearbook thread).

You haven’t been smug in the least. You may have been outraged (heaven forbid–to those who wish to kill the very idea of outrage). OpieinMaybery2 is just projecting. :)

berurah · May 23, 2007, 8:27pm

^^THANK YOU, hh!

StickerShock · May 23, 2007, 8:35pm

Gosh, Opie, for someone who claims to not care about how much ink your kids got in their yearbooks, you sure do mention it a lot. Here are just two posts of yours where you tell us how they were slighted:

And this:

Your sanctimony is always good for a chuckle.

Opie_ofMaybery2 · May 23, 2007, 8:35pm

“When you look in the table of contents of the book and find an academic section (it was entitled ACADEMICS, STRIVING FOR EXCELLENCE) and find not only NOTHING academic, but instead, layouts on teen pregnancy (complete with belly shots and sono pics) and caffeine addiction and study habits that include tacit approval, however “tongue in cheek” it may have been, of cheating from nerds, then this is simply stunningly poor journalism.”

As I reread the sentence you’ve done. I actually can see the point they were trying to make. Could it be you didn’t get the point?

If I can get HH and SS to lay off their shout at the devil (opie) crusade for a second… Let me explain how I see what you described. I would hope that you don’t see it as a put down ( I save those for my two favorite ladys) but just another perspective.

“ACADEMICS, STRIVING FOR EXCELLENCE”

"on teen pregnancy " pretty tough odds to overcome a teen pregnancy and finish hs. Maybe for this person at that point in her life finishing HS is striving for excellence? Not what I’d want my daugther to be doing, BUT if she were in that poor girls shoes… wouldn’t you want her to try?

"caffeine addiction "

You don’t have a starbucks? I’m from WA and kids anymore do pound the coffee and jam studies in. During the school year kids crowd our many starbucks and coffee places to do homework and yea, drink coffee…

“cheating from nerds”

Yea, you have to take it at a bad attempt at humor. It simply is.

Most people think bright kids are that way naturally, that they don’t have to work at it. You know it’s far from the truth. I think the yb staff might have gone by the approach of not what the smart kids do to strive for excellence but others. The average kid, the girl who has to overcome being pregnant. etc.

I wrote eariler that I used to live across the street from a home where teenaged girls were sent to “recover” while pregnant. They didn’t get to finish HS, they didn’t get to return to their communities, they weren’t people anymore, they were “mistakes”. Shunned by their church and families. Isolated, left cold and basically alone.

You’ll have to forgive me for not seeing the wrong in the pregnant teen trying to finish HS. You see, I saw first hand how it used to be for these girls. I can’t be that outraged by what was done in a yearbook compared to what was done for years across the street. Those poor girls didn’t make their yearbooks.

This is a reason why we disagree on this issue. I’m sorry I don’t see it quite the same way based on your descriptions. I haven’t googled it to learn more. My opinion might change if I did or it might become firmer. Should I google?

berurah · May 23, 2007, 8:39pm

opie~

Please don’t consider me rude if I choose not to address any more of your posts (serious here, not sarcastic). I feel that we will never come to terms on this issue and that it is a waste of my precious time to try to explain any more to you. Carry on.

~berurah

Opie_ofMaybery2 · May 23, 2007, 8:39pm

OH SS, keep trying you’ll hurt my feelings someday… Meanwhile…

Can I play you a tune on my piano?

What would you like to hear? I got the old biddy blues? I gotta gossip I just gotta share?

I’m here from 7 till close…remember to tip your waitress!

Opie_ofMaybery2 · May 23, 2007, 8:47pm

“Please don’t consider me rude if I choose not to address any more of your posts (serious here, not sarcastic). I feel that we will never come to terms on this issue and that it is a waste of my precious time to try to explain any more to you. Carry on.”

no problem. There’s enough people rude here already. personally, I always thought these places where different opinions could debate. I didn’t know it had to be the total agreement club. You’ve explained, I understand your pov, I disagree and attempted to provide some other possibilities, that are possibilities to consider. I’m sorry I can’t agree with your assement of the situation as you’ve described it. I guess I will google and learn a bit more about it from other sources.

High school teachers: authority figures and mentors--or BFF and "Mom"?

CONNECT WITH US