<p>
Except one generally has to buy the yearbook sight unseen. The general expectation is that it won’t be too dissimilar from those of previous years.</p>
<p>Sidenote: How often are yearbooks done by journalism classes? I’ve only seen school papers and yearbooks done as ECs.</p>
<p>
opie~</p>
<p>It’s not that I’m not interested in a respectful debate based on the real issues. The problem is, <em>you’re</em> not. Look at your above contribution. I offered evidence from my own life that shows that people DO occasionally look back on yearbooks and show them to their children. Your answer to that was an irrelevant pot shot which, I <em>think</em> (though I’m not certain) was about your believing that I continuously relive my high school glory days. What did that have to do with the discussion? For the record, I went on to excel in college, graduate at the top of my class with a special departmental award (given by faculty) naming me the “outstanding student” in the entire department, grad students included, and then went on to excel in a challenging graduate program, again finishing at the top of my class. My achievements since then have not been as outwardly recognized, but they have been MUCH more valuable. I am raising six amazing kids, each of whom has made me very, very proud. Does that answer your question?</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>B, my point really simply, and yes that wasn’t kind, I’m sorry, was this…</p>
<p>What are you having your kids reach for? How far do you want them to go?</p>
<p>High school should be nothing more than a bump in the road on the way. What goals are you laying out? </p>
<p>Before you get defensive, I know you want the best for your kids. I am sure that you do. High School should never be anybody’s best cause there’s on average 59 more years to go. What’ya gonna do for 59 years? </p>
<p>That’s my point about HS. Most of the “people” that mattered then don’t matter now. </p>
<p>I apologize for the pot shot. You’re right it was uncalled for. I think it might be the only one I’ve tossed your way. I’ve tried to be understanding in my disagreement for the most part. I do disagree with alot of this, as I do see how the thought pattern probably was. </p>
<p>It’s just the waters are getting chummed a bit… </p>
<p>But I’m getting a little more aggressive as the ladies circle me for the kill. I wonder if I poke them in the eye, will they swim away?</p>
<p>
mathmom~</p>
<p>I’m actually glad that you brought this up. I’m not sure how this works in other districts/schools, but at <em>our</em> school, one must take an actual CLASS called “yearbook” in order to work on the publication and contribute to it. </p>
<p>This has contributed to the unfortunate result of generally limiting the yearbook staff at our school to kids who are not “fast trackers.” In other words, kids like my oldest son, who filled EVERY possible class slot with honors and AP classes (well, mostly honors as our school offers very few APs) would not have the room in their schedule or the interest in taking a class like yearbook. IF these kids could have contributed to the yearbook WITHOUT being a part of a formal class, I suspect that some of them would have.</p>
<p>It is not at all surprising, then, if you look at the type of kid who DOES generally take yearbook, that academics would get very shortchanged. In fact, this is kind of funny. We never got an answer to the question of why NOTHING academic was mentioned in the book, even under the academic SECTION. Finally, one television reporter actually told me that she had spoken to one of the editors about that, and the editor had simply replied, “We didn’t know any of the academic kids.” 
</p>
<p>So, yes, in a school like ours, which REQUIRES you to take an actual class in order to contribute to the yearbook, you are going to see a publication decidedly slanted away from certain types of kids and subjects, even though IMHO it is the RESPONSIBILTY of the staff to make sure that all deserving groups are recognized. </p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>Berurah, that does explain, in part, why the yearbook was slanted to represent certain types of kids. I realize they should recognize all. But I can see them sitting around deciding what candid shots to include and it being heavily weighted toward their own interests and friends. </p>
<p>Yearbook is not a class here. It is an activity, am pretty sure. </p>
<p>It would really help to have representatives working on the yearbook from all factions of the senior class. </p>
<p>The kids who work on the yearbook are going to really shape it. And the way it is set up at your school, it is unlikely that the kids from upper level academic classes can fit yearbook class into their schedule. Thus, those who work on the yearbook are going to slant their “creative” input to reflect their interests and friendship groups, which likely doesn’t prioritize the students heavily into academics. I can see how this might have happened.</p>
<p>In such a situation, it would have been good to have done surveys of all seniors asking what they wanted to include in the yearbook. Also, they could have invited all seniors to submit candid shots or other things, rather than relying solely on what the particular yearbook class came up with.</p>
<p>b, I thought you said it wasn’t about your kids being slighted? </p>
<p>“ids like my oldest son, who filled EVERY possible class slot with honors and AP classes (well, mostly honors as our school offers very few APs) would not have the room in their schedule or the interest in taking a class like yearbook.”</p>
<p>"t is not at all surprising, then, if you look at the type of kid who DOES generally take yearbook, that academics would get very shortchanged. In fact, this is kind of funny. We never got an answer to the question of why NOTHING academic was mentioned in the book, even under the academic SECTION. Finally, one television reporter actually told me that she had spoken to one of the editors about that, and the editor had simply replied, “We didn’t know any of the academic kids”</p>
<p>"earbook, you are going to see a publication decidedly slanted away from certain types of kids and subjects, even though IMHO it is the RESPONSIBILTY of the staff to make sure that all deserving groups are recognized. "</p>
<p>You always seem to gravitate back to your kids not getting the opportunity to be represented… “eserving groups” which your kid is a part of. It really sounds like your mad your kid didn’t get props in the yearbook.</p>
<p>I have a little problem with the use of the word, “deserving.” I think ALL the seniors are deserving to be represented in the yearbook. The ones who do more wholesome activities or are star students are not more “deserving” when it comes to the yearbook. Yes, they are more “deserving” when it comes to academic awards and such. </p>
<p>Yearbook is a memory of all the kids in the class, what their interests were, activities, etc. There are going to be subsets of kids in the class who engage in interests totally differently than other kids. But the yearbook is their memory of that time as well. I would not want to feature any particular group. But I wouldn’t want to shut away certain types of kids either who simply don’t reflect my values. I don’t really have a problem with a memory book including memories for all the different kinds of kids who go to the school. I don’t see the yearbook as honoring anyone. It is really just a way to look back at who attended and what they did during their time at the school, in and out of the classroom. </p>
<p>One thing that is odd at B’s school is that the yearbook comes out the following fall after graduation. That really misses one of the main things about yearbook, which is the signing of one another’s yearbook with personal messages, etc. :D</p>
<p>Opie, this is the last time I’m going to repeat this: read carefully, please…</p>
<p>My son had already graduated, and his class was gone before this yearbook was created. Neither of my daughters were seniors during the course of that year and did not stand to benefit if academic kids were featured.</p>
<p>My efforts were not on behalf of my own children.</p>
<p>The truth is, I have no idea whether or not my children have been shortchanged. I’d never looked at a yearbook before some students brought this one to my attention. Other members of our committee did peruse older yearbooks for research purposes AFTER this came down. I didn’t. I actually don’t have any idea whether or not my son got recognition in his own senior yearbook, and frankly, I’m not concerned about that. The book didn’t contain objectionable material, and that was what I cared about.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>One correction to one of my previous posts…I looked up yearbook on our school’s website and it actually is an elective course. It does not count for English credits toward graduation.</p>
<p>
Outside of having their portraits included, I would have to disagree with this. I added the word “deserving” purposefully. The reason I added it is because there is a small group of students who have not only neglected to contribute anything positive to our school (and by positive, my bar is WAAAAAAAAAAY low here…I’m talking attending class in a respectful manner, etc.), but who have generally been disruptive and negative influences. Take, for example, the small group of kids who terrorize others and bully them (like one of the featured pregnant girls). Then, there are the ones who have demonstrated racist behavior and egregious antiSemitism. There are those whose only purposes have been to show disrespect and disdain for both authority figures and peers. I am old fashioned enough to believe that the mere presence of these kids does not entitle them to coverage other than the senior portrait and any candid shots they might accidentally be included in. As always others are free to disagree.</p>
<p>To me, there is <em>nothing</em> wrong with featuring more prominently those who have consciously chosen to GIVE more positive energy to their school. It’s a natural consequence. IF someone is in ROTC and the marching band and the chess club and the hip hop club and STUCO, logic would dictate that that person would appear in more places in the yearbook than someone who skips classes daily and is not involved in any ECs. </p>
<p>There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with dedication, commitment, and positive contributions being rewarded more than bullying, drinking, getting pregnant, skipping class, etc. In fact, there’s something very RIGHT with it.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>I guess I don’t see the yearbook as the place where certain people are honored. I just see the yearbook as including all the seniors, other classes, faculty, activity groups, and candid shots and so forth. I don’t see it as an honor to be in the yearbook. It is just a documentation of who was in the class and the various activity groups, interests, etc. Our yearbook did not feature the standout positive worthy or deserving students any more than other students. The big candid photo spread was kids on dirt bikes, ATVs, snowboards, etc. There were no academic honors in the yearbook either. It was just activity groups, and candids. Each senior had a third of a page devoted to whatever they wanted to put on it…any types of photos and text. </p>
<p>Awards and so forth are when students are honored. Those who have contributed nothing, aren’t usually rewarded in those ceremonies. When faculty choose to reward students, yes, I would expect them to reward students who have done positive things. I agree that when you are rewarding students, there are standards of what is worthy of an award and recognition. </p>
<p>The yearbook is not really the place for rewarding people or a recognition device for worthy or deserving students. It is just a memory book of the student body, featuring all the seniors, not just “selected ones”, created by and for students. That’s my view.</p>
<p>
EXACTLY. So, for example, if there are pages covering the orchestra, the drill team, the French club, the Seize the Day club, or whatever, those kids will naturally get coverage. </p>
<p>There is absolutely no reason for honors to be left out of the yearbook. Why should they be? I mean, if the football team wins state, should that not be mentioned because it is an award/honor? If someone from the high school went to the Olympics, would you want to leave that out?</p>
<p>Most likely to’s are honors, as are Homecoming Queen and King. All SORTS of honors are included in yearbooks. I am at a loss to understand why these things are not as much a part of the history/record of the year as are candid shots in the lunchroom. There is room for both, provided space is not wasted on inappropriate content.</p>
<p>This isn’t about only featuring those who are exceptional. Not at all. My only point is that there is enough stuff to cover that is SCHOOL RELATED that it is not necessary to seek out NON-SCHOOL related, maladaptive things to feature.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>While I am not opposed to academic honors in a yearbook, ours has none and I think that is rather common. Those kids are rewarded at award ceremonies and such. If anything, when I read the yearbook, I discovered all these kids whose names never come up in activities and in academic award ceremonies. But they are part of the class. The yearbook is all inclusive but the award ceremonies are not and are for those who earn or deserve the awards and recognition. </p>
<p>For example, my child was valedictorian and has won many academic awards at her school. The only places she is in the yearbook are on her senior portrait page (as is everyone else), and in group shots with her activities like sport teams, band, etc. She is in NO candids or mentioned anywhere in the yearbook. I frankly could care less and neither does she. She is recognized when there are awards at award ceremonies and at graduation. The yearbook is not really a recognition of awards. At least ours is not.</p>
<p>Oops, I forgot, she is in the yearbook one more time…in the senior superlatives which are voted by the senior class, she is the female “Teacher’s Pet.” I believe she may also have had the most votes for “Most Likely to Succeed” but they had a rule that you could only “win” one Senior Superlative. </p>
<p>We really do not have honors in our yearbook. There is no homecoming queen or king here. The only honors I can think of is under “clubs”, one club is NHS. And in the music department activities, there is a group shot of those who went to All States. Our yearbook really is not about honors and basically just shows all students and all activities and then candids. The yearbook committee gathers the candids.</p>
<p>I don’t see a need to have to include the academic awards in the yearbook because this recognition happens at other times. It is not as if these kids are not rewarded. Frankly, even the sports awards aren’t in the yearbook either. Again, these are awarded at banquets. So, kids are recognized for doing good things. They just don’t use the yearbook as the avenue for that.</p>
<p>Our yearbook has all sorts of honors. All of the homecoming and prom kings and queens are mentioned as are all successes by school teams and individuals in sports, etc. Given that, there is no reason to discriminate against academics in a SCHOOL setting. </p>
<p>My own yearbook gave extensive coverage to vals, sals, college scholarship recipients, and academic award winners. But it also covered everything else. These things are not mutually exclusive. </p>
<p>I personally do not care WHAT is covered, as long as it’s semi-related to school and is not giving a detrimental message. Really, I’m not all that hard to please. Like I’ve said numerous times, I had never even opened one of my kids’ yearbooks until some students who were disgusted brought this last one to me.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>“My efforts were not on behalf of my own children.”</p>
<p>“this is the last time I’m going to repeat this: read carefully, please…”</p>
<p>I’m sorry the reason you keep having to repeat yourself is you are writing like you did on behalf of your children to deal with some slight. </p>
<p>About four or five times you’ve had to repeat yourself and make the same statement to different people. Are we all reading it the same way? Could it be how your expressing yourself? no?</p>
<p>“I don’t see a need to have to include the academic awards in the yearbook because this recognition happens at other times. It is not as if these kids are not rewarded. Frankly, even the sports awards aren’t in the yearbook either. Again, these are awarded at banquets. So, kids are recognized for doing good things. They just don’t use the yearbook as the avenue for that”</p>
<p>Ditto to this. We spent many nights at awards dinners. Kids were honored in school assembly’s, parent’s nights as well. They didn’t spare the dog or pony all that much. Even have the GW Bush letters ( ever so meaningful to me) and some coffee coaster sized medalions they wore for graduation. Lots of Bling, special recognition ( I think at least 7-8 evening events for each) at different organizations from chamber of commerce, elks, rotory, Kiwanis, moose, squriel (just seeing if your paying attiention) a couple of women’s groups and around 6 or 7 SB meetings. Lot’s of newspaper articles, interviews and stuff. They got enough attiention. </p>
<p>I guess this could be why I don’t see the big aspect of this. I assumed every town treats their good students that way. Don’t they?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Not everyone here lives in Mayberry, Opie.</p>
<p>
In your haste to condemn and accuse me (and twist and turn my words) yet again, you have produced an unintelligible statement. If you don’t mind my asking, were you sober when you wrote this? 
</p>
<p>On a different note, I am sitting here absolutely stunned that I am finding myself in a position to have to offer JUSTIFICATION for the inclusion of academics in the permanent record book (or “memory book”) of an EDUCATIONAL INSTITUTION. But for academics, there would be no reason for schools to exist. There is something vastly wrong with this picture. Wow.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>That is exactly my take on this. I can’t believe that this is the argument. Obviously (at least to me) this is a symptom of some major problems at the schools in question. Teen pregnancy, drug use, alcohol use, being highlighted in high school yearbooks? Let alone the fact that in the meantime the more academic and scholastic achievements are being pushed to the side. In the Colorado case, the concerned parent mentioned that their high school band that had won 3rd place in their state championship, was “hidden” in a small section in the back of the yearbook. </p>
<p>
<a href=“California an “Island Unto Itself” in Education – NBC Los Angeles”>A-List Women Celebrate Their Own In Hollywood – NBC Los Angeles;
<p>Yes, berurah, “there is something vastly wrong with this picture,” and you’re not alone in seeing this as a problem.</p>
<p>I urge caution re the blanket labeling of certain segments of society, no matter how undesirable or unacceptable. I am troubled by the categorization of “getting pregnant” used in the same phrase as “bullying, drinking, skipping class”. Later in life, in mainstream media, these same persons - and their children - will read about themselves in phraseology along the lines of “unwed single mothers, drug dealers, criminals…” etc. </p>
<p>As a person who “got pregnant”, and who furthermore never even made it to senior year of high school, let alone placement on a page in anyone’s yearbook, I can certainly understand how pregancy in high school is disconcerting to some of the parents of those who are higher achievers - teenage pregancy is to most of us unthinkable and unimaginable. However, broadly, the typical NHS members, the vals, those who went on to college, got married, and had children properly within the institution of marriage, THEY now work for ME. I pay their salaries. And, I am not the anomoly that many wish to believe - there are many, many more like me - quite a few, actually. We are motivated by life forces that those who have not been in our circumstances cannot possibly imagine, and therefore can be successful far beyond what the statics prophesy. </p>
<p>Therefore I think it is sometimes better to take the long range view, and consider these persons as still potentially eligible to be a part of the high school, and later, perhaps, to contribute to society in some meaningful way. I can well imagine that three or five or 10 or 25 or 30 years out, some of those who “got pregnant” may very well be the person in charge of the career or financial direction of some of the vals, sals, NHS members, etc. At a minimum, I strongly urge that girls who “got pregnant” not be painted with the same brush as bullys, drinkers, etc. </p>
<p>Having said that, I am wondering if it is difficult to include many or most academic awards in a traditional yearbook, especially if they are distributed at the end of the school year. It seems that a yearbook would have to “go to press” many weeks before final awards are known or decided. The production of a yearbook would have to be quite a process - there would have to be a layout, sending to a printer, blue lines or proofs sent back and forth for approval, and then the printing itself. I could be wrong but it seems like this would have to take several weeks, and many awards especially larger ones probably aren’t decided before “press time”. Perhaps that is why so many do not heavily emphasize academic achievements.</p>