<p>lateto school</p>
<p>I know several women who have been teen moms and achieved greatly in tough tough circumstances and raised wonderful children. The more I hear about this case, the more I think there was some very nasty stuff going on and it was more than just a question of what wasn’t in the yearbook. I personally think, though, that reopening these wounds may not be highly productive.</p>
<p>LTS~</p>
<p>Were you a teen mom? Your daughter, as you have shared with us, just graduated from college. You have mentioned that you are in your upper 40’s. According to my math, that would have put you in your mid-20’s when you gave birth to your daughter. Having a child in your mid-20’s, imho, is very different than having one at 14 or 15.</p>
<p>The reason why I “clumped” those things together is because all of those things are detrimental to the educational process. Though I realize that this subject is close to your heart, you are by FAR the exception to the rule. Generally, girls who have babies during high school set themselves up for a lifelong struggle, so there is no reason to glorify this behavior in a school publication.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>LTS, your life is always the contrast to the typical story of girls who get pregnant and don’t finish HS. You are just a truly exceptional person, and the more I read about your story, the more I admire and respect you. You are the poster child for succeeding under extremely difficult circumstances.</p>
<p>I still think that the yearbook should not necessarily highlight teen pregnancy as the optimal choice, though I agree it’s not in the same category as bullying, drug use or other negative behaviors. </p>
<p>And I really think the Colorado yearbook should have highlighted those band kids!</p>
<p>I cannot escape feeling enormous responsibility to combat the immediate indictment and degradation of persons who are unmarried and pregnant - regardless of age. Unmarried and pregnant and doomed to undereducation (however temporarily) at 12 or14 or 15, or, as in my case, early 20’s, isn’t pretty, and I won’t pretend that it is, or that it should be “glorified”. But I also do not think it is right or good for society to ostracize and negatively categorize these persons. Many of “us” evolve to become leaders in business and society; MOST of us do not morph into hardened criminals. Some of us even actually pay taxes, and send our children to college. </p>
<p>I agree that it will not resolve anything to dredge this up again, but, on this point, I will be heard: I do agree with the broader concept that a yearbook should be somewhat in balance and certainly the opportunity to highlight the positive, productive aspects of education should be thoroughly mined, however, I think it is wrong to ostracize this specific group: some of those young women may well one day be the mayor of the town, or your son or daughter’s boss, banker, lawyer, or perhaps even your son or daughter’s representative in congress some day: tread out on this thin ice carefully. If you snapshot this collective group a few years out their career and social positions may be astonishing. </p>
<p>Perhaps there is some way - not specific necessarily to Berurah’s yearbook but with yearbooks in general - to include all acceptable groups, while simulataneously avoiding “glorifying” inimical behaviors.</p>
<p>My concern with our school featuring large, two-page glossy layouts depicting behaviors and activities that are detrimental to school success (and sometimes in direct opposition to school rules) centers around the messages that this sends to our kids.</p>
<p>Speaking of messages…
<a href=“http://www.bvsdwatch.org/images/stories/BVSDWatch/priscilla%20transcript%205-2007-2.pdf[/url]”>http://www.bvsdwatch.org/images/stories/BVSDWatch/priscilla%20transcript%205-2007-2.pdf</a></p>
<p>I’m not sure how many of you have read about this story, but recently, in Boulder, CO, the Conference for World Affairs (CWA) made a presentation at Boulder High School. Here are a few excerpts from the panel discussion:</p>
<p>Joel, a clinical professor of psychology at UCLA, told the group of high school freshmen through seniors
</p>
<p>This is from a panelist named Sacre:
</p>
<p>More from Becker:
</p>
<p>From Andee Gerhardt:
</p>
<p>Please remember that the above message was relayed to HIGH SCHOOL freshmen through seniors at Boulder High School during school time. </p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>
LTS~</p>
<p>I thank you very much for your contributions to this thread. As someone who has experienced the struggle of being an unmarried mother, your input is valuable.</p>
<p>Please note that I have NEVER, EVER advocated for the ostracization or negative categorization of young pregnant girls. I would not do this. I have absolutely NO ISSUE whatsoever with the featuring of pregnant teenage girls in the yearbook as long as the entire focus of the feature isn’t meant to glorify this difficult condition. </p>
<p>In other words, I would love to see these girls featured for taking part in ANYTHING school related, along with all the rest of the kids. </p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>LTS, I’d repeat sjmom’s comment about you being a truly exceptional person. Your D, also, is poised to take the world by storm.</p>
<p>I do not believe that pregnant teens should be ostracized. Neither do the groups of parents who challenged the school administration in Berurah’s town. They objected to highlighting the pregnant teens in a special section focusing exclusively on their pregnancies. It is very common for attention-seeking teens, with little in the way of real accomplishments, to intentionally get pregnant. They all aren’t “ooops babies.” Yearbook spreads, baby showers held at school, etc. are feeding into the problem. Had these girls been part of the NHS, ultimate frisbee, or marching band, or prom committee, or any school-related club, nobody would expect them to be left out because of their condition. (The particular girls in this case were bullies, I believe. I think B is lumping together a variety of actions or circumstances that are surely not desirable for teens. Some may be illegal or violent, but I don’t think any of the situtations she mentions are something we’d wish on kids we care about.)</p>
<p>I’m glad you posted because I was actually wondering about your views. Imagine yourself as a pregnant teen who is featured in a yearbook spread about your pregnancy. Whether or not you will go on to great things, or struggle with hard times for the rest of your life, you will be bringing a child into the world. Do you think it is fair to the child that the circumstances of his birth, including the no doubt immature comments of his mom, are out there forever, for anyone to see? It seems like such an invasion of privacy. Such an exploitation of these girls & their babies by the yearbook moderator!</p>
<p>I’d much prefer kind & swift remedial academic help if needed. A network of people helping the girl complete school, continue at the next level. Help getting away from an abusive home or boyfriend, if that is the situation. Help with job skills, etc. Much like what BirthRight & similar pro-life organizations provide. No young woman should need to live out of a car like you did! But I think having the teen featured in the yearbook, a memory book celebrating the positive high school experience that everyone shared, is way out of line.</p>
<p>Berurah, I know you didn’t intend that, and, I agree with you in spirit - the way forward is to highlight positive, productive behavior, especially in what is supposed to be an academic environment, and especially considering that academics, education, adoption of positive behavior is critical to elevating unmarried pregnant women (and girls) out of social and economic poverty.</p>
<p>I’m just always going to be very sensitive to the incremental language that indicts such persons. Nothing to do with you, but, by way of example, there’s a lunatic who writes a column in our home city newspaper, every week for 20 years it’s the same horrible dribble. SSDD, it’s always about a woman who had children out of wedlock, and - (think of this like a “choose your own adventure” book) - she’s sick and cannot pay the bills, or her male friend beat her up and she cannot pay the bills, or she lost her job and cannot pay the bills- or - just whatever negative spin you can think of - that’s what this useless, talentless reporter writes, and, single unmarried mothers are ALWAYS synonymous with criminals and various undesirables and miscreants. I used to telephone her when particularly insulting and degrading text appeared in her columns; I’d tell her how destructive - and inaccurate - her columns were - and I would point out to her how much more effective it might be to instead write columns showing such persons pathways out of poverty and despair - but, she’s hopeless, she’s depriving a village somewhere of an idiot. She doesn’t get it and she never will. “Why don’t you write something USEFUL?” I would ask her, and she would stutter and stammer and make excuses. She doesn’t WANT to get it. And people like me? She desperately, urgently NEEDS to believe we’re exceptions, anomolies, etc. - otherwise it’s just too terrifying for her to consider. Extrapolate this out by lots and lots of media, everywhere; I am going to address this vigorously wherever I find it, even on CC, even though it may not be what the writer intended, or, if they did intend it, pointing is out is probably useless. </p>
<p>I’ll bow out of the thread now. :)</p>
<p>
SS~</p>
<p>YES! This is <em>SO</em> true and it is exactly my concern with regard to reinforcing (by positive attention) getting pregnant as a teen. There is a blog ring that contains the blogs of many kids from our h.s. A quick glance at these blogs confirms exactly what you say. The pregnant girls are always talking about their “jealous” friends. And it is very common for all of the girls in any given small social circle to get pregnant at or around the same time.</p>
<p>There is a great deal of reinforcement already given to these girls. They bring in their babies regularly for the teachers and other students to make over. They bring in sonogram pictures and plan baby showers during some classes. These things are distracting and detract from the educational mission of the school. </p>
<p>The other day, my D was walking into school and saw two girls come in together. One was carrying her young baby, and the other, a friend of the young mother, was wearing a t-shirt that declared, “Proud Mother-to-be.” </p>
<p>Many of these pregnancies are no accident. Or…it’s a HUMONGOUS coincidence that the positively engaged kids (those who take part in positive, school-sponsored activities and ECs outside of school) rarely have these “oopses,” at least in our school.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>LTS, I agree that this columnist is a moron. One other point I’ll make is that as a staunch advocate of pro-life options to abortion, I’d rather see pregnant teenagers than girls who have aborted their babies. But I like the idea of simply including them in other school related activities, rather than just focusing on their condition. Just as I’d like to see disabled kids involved in activities, not just a spread on the kids in wheelchairs. (And I’m not suggesting that being pregnant is a disability, by the way!)</p>
<p>I think the yearbook should be all inclusive. I don’t think the inclusion of pregnant teens glorifies them. They are part of the class. I don’t see why they should be shunned. I don’t think their inclusion in the yearbook means that adults support the choices these girls have made or are celebrating or rewarding them. But they are members of the class like anyone else. </p>
<p>As far as awards, it is true at our school that the book goes into publishing long before awards come out. The awards are recognized in other avenues and ceremonies and in the newspapers. Our schools’ musicians and bands have won amazing awards and these are not in the yearbook. But they have made the front page of the newspaper. Same with vals and other recognition. None of this is in the yearbook. The yearbook is not the definitive document of the school or their educational mission or what they value. It is a student publication of memories of their classmates and their activities. There are plenty of ohter publications and public ceremonies to recognize achievements. The yearbook here is not really a document of achievements but more of a memory of ALL the people in the class/school.</p>
<p>I also am not clear why this controversy in Kansas, which had its own discussion threads at the time, is having another thread, particularly as the issue was resolved in that school already. The only “new” news here is discomfort in the close relationship a journalism student had with this same yearbook mentor, who apparently is disliked by those who pursued the yearbook issue. I would have to agree with BethieVT that it doesn’t seem to be productive at this point to reopen the wounds from the original controversy. I am not clear the purpose in doing so. I think the topic is worthy of discussion, but it already happened in round one.</p>
<p>LTR…I totally agree that while adults would not advocate or promote teen pregnancy, they still need to embrace those who have gone down that path and some of those teens might go on to lead very productive lives, though they have difficult hurdles to face. I am not sure we need to block them out of a class memory book. They are still in the class.</p>
<p>
<strong><em>ROFL</em></strong>!!! Well, if I can throw in our school administration and board members, we can supply the village idiots to quite a few deprived places… ;)</p>
<p>I totally understand your attitude and concerns, and I enthusiastically applaud your efforts to bring some understanding to that reporter and others. In fact, in that regard, your mission and mine are quite similar. Each of us is trying to enlighten and bring about more positives, so obviously I cannot help but admire your determination and tenacity. :)</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>Stickershock, I never thought of it that way, I guess. My daughter attended a high school where the principal expelled the captain of the football team for drink a vodka - AT HOME, on a weekend evening, in the presence of his parents. Trust me when I tell you lots of lawyers got into that one, and lots of press coverage followed, and the principal prevailed. Expelled he remained (and went on to public school, and matriculated at Harvard, but, that’s another story 
) I paid more for high school tuition than many parents pay for college. Yearbook? I paid I don’t remember how much money for a half-page spread, photo montage, together with quotes from a favorite book, with permission from the author, who I had to track down in a foreign country as the stuff was under copyright and I needed permission. There were NO pregnant young ladies in this yearbook, or anything else of the sort, but, there were lots and lots of awards and recognition for positive stuff, and my daugher was in several photographs throughout. So I am having something of a blind spot here. </p>
<p>I do wonder though if such a pristine, perfectly positive high school environment is a good thing overall - some small part of me thinks maybe it’s better for young people to be exposed to the fullest possible range of human behaviors, even those that are highly undesirable, in order to be able to better understand, and eventually work within a world that is heavily populated with people who do make unfortunate choices. </p>
<p>I think there is a positive here though - perhaps this particular yearbook accomplished a journalistic purpose, if it brings to the forefront the issue of negative behaviors and unfortunate choices during high school years, and productive, actionable dialog comes out of it.</p>
<p>Are the young men who are fathers or about to be fathers and are members of the senior being exluded from the year book also? Lets be fair it takes two! Lets not exluded expectant teens from any school activities. Baby showers, just like birthday parties should be done outside of school for high schoolers.</p>
<p>
With all due respect, soozie, you are missing the points brought up by roshke, corona (through the link she supplied), LTS, and me. Though our issue may have been “settled” (although there has been NO feedback given to us parents and community members as a result of all that we presented…NONE, so we are not really sure this HAS been settled. We will not see our next yearbook until August), this issue is generally a current one, and most of the discussion on the past few pages of this thread have not been specific to my kids’ school, but rather to the larger question of what a yearbook should and should not be about. In fact, this discussion is <em>most</em> relevant, especially given the similar recent controversy in our neighboring state, Colorado.</p>
<p>
A yearbook does, indeed, reflect the students, the school, and its community and as such, does speak to what a school values. Our school does NOT provide “plenty” of other recognition for its achievement oriented students. In fact, at the same time that one of our debate teams made nationals (a HUGE, HUGE deal in our school), that was NOT mentioned at ALL, but there was a whole page devoted in our NEWSPAPER to belly shots and sono pics of pregnant teens. Your school is very different from ours, soozie. In addition, for a yearbook that goes to press in the summer AFTER graduation, there is no justifiable reason to exclude ANYTHING.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>
Please realize, LTS, that all of these things (and more) had alreay been featured prominently in our school newspaper over the year. IF they are to be featured (which I’m not in favor of because as an educator who was trained in the ways of B-mod, I realize that attention is attention is attention, and all of it leads to an escalation of the behavior), the newspaper is the place to do it, not a yearbook that contains permanent memories for 2200 students.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>B,
I didn’t miss any points. Also, this thread started prior to the Colorado case in the news. It started over an opinion about the yearbook teacher, who is the same teacher with whom your group took issue with in the yearbook case. I thought your group prevailed. That was my understanding. While you may not have been given any apologies or feedback, I thought you did “win” the case. I am not clear the value in bringing it all back up again, but that is just my opinion. By starting a thread about this again, you are opening yourself up to a myriad of views. </p>
<p>Back to the yearbook, I decided to go look at D2’s senior yearbook as I reported on D1’s yearbook in a previous post. Hers is nearly the same as D1’s. There was one extra page asking a handful of inviduals what they would miss about the school. One boy said he would miss “partying.” That doesn’t bother me as it simply reflects upon this student and not the school. Just like with D1’s book, D2’s book had a two page spread on “Boys and Their Toys” and the photos are of particular boys with their trucks, snowmobiles, kayaks, snowboards, motorcross bikes, etc. I guess I could protest the sexism of the yearbook as there is not a two page spread of candids about anything to do with girls! However, I don’t truly care about the yearbook. I mostly look at the senior pages where each student had a set of photos they chose, along with anything they wished to write, and I also like looking at the many pages of “ads” bought by parents with photos of their kids, sometimes as young children, and the tear jerker messages they have published in tribute to their children. The other thing I love to look at are the handwritten messages of all their friends signing the yearbook inside the covers and throughout the book. I truly think these are the parts that hold memories the most. It is too bad that your book comes out after the students are finished school because they miss out on the signing of personal messages. </p>
<p>Like D1’s book, D2’s yearbook had NO awards in it. I don’t see that as a commentary on the school’s mission or values. I don’t look to the yearbook to document that. I look at what the school’s priorities are, and if they are recognizing academics, and so forth in other avenues. I care about that a lot, but not whether that stuff is in the yearbook.</p>
<p>By the way, in my D2’s year, the music department won a Grammy award. This was in the local paper, but again, these things are not in the yearbook. It doesn’t bother me. These achievements are noted elsewhere. The yearbook is not a record of awards. It is just a memory for the students of who was in the class and their various activities.</p>
<p>Susan~</p>
<p>
You have shared this same opinion in many posts on this thread.</p>
<p>I give up. I cannot explain this any more clearly than I already have. </p>
<p>Everyone has a choice to contribute to a thread–or skip right over it if either 1.) they consider it redundant and as such, lacking in value, or 2.) they don’t have anything to contribute to it (for example, if someone comes on asking for good places to have lunch in NYC, I don’t contribute because I do not have that knowledge).</p>
<p>Some of us here apparently consider this thread worthwhile in addressing some relevant issues. No one is being forced to post to it.</p>
<p>~berurah
p.s. We have <em>NO</em> idea whether or not we “won.” The new yearbook will not be out until next August, and no feedback has ever been addressed to the parents or community members. The <em>ONLY</em> thing that has been put into writing (and this was by a journalism student in the school newspaper) was that the journalism sponsor/teacher will be working elsewhere next year.</p>
<p>Now, I got very curious, so I went to look for other yearbooks in the house. I just found my college one, which of course is not the same as a high school yearbook (before anyone tells me these are adults). The yearbook was similar to our HS one. Photos of every senior. Photos of every activity. Candid photos. No awards. No academic stuff. The candid section has a two page spread of photos on the topic of “Sex” and a two page photo on the topic of “Drugs.” :D</p>
<p>I may just have to dig through boxes in the basement to find my HS yearbook now~!! :D</p>
<p>
Soozie, you keep saying this, but I have yet to see anyone on this thread, or among the parents in B’s group, wanting to EXCLUDE the pregnant girls.<br>
They should be included in all the school related activities that are featured in the yearbook and in which they take part. And in candid shots, just like all the other kids, ranging from nerds to geeks to jocks to emos to preps…</p>
<p>The objection is not to their inclusion in the book, but to the special pregnancy section. Getting pregnant as a teen is not an accomplishment. It is not wise. It will not make one’s life easier. While the baby resulting from the pregnancy may be a joy, it is certainly not the best way to begin a family. A yearbook is for celebrating. Teen pregnancy is not something to be celebrated.</p>
<p>You mention dirt bikes, skateboards, and similar activities in your kids’ books. That sounds pretty wholesome & fun to me. Pretty standard yearbook material. LIke snaps of kids at a fundraising car wash. Or helping out at Special Olympics. Or stocking shelves at a food bank. But I can’t imagine why nobody had a camera to snap a picture of kids celebrating & holding up a trophy when the band won an award. Certainly that was a fun memory for plenty of kids, no?</p>