<p>^^I hold high school yearbooks (and newspapers for that matter) to a completely different standard than I do college publications. One is dealing with 14-18 year olds, the other with 18-22 year olds, generally. No comparison in my mind.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>
BINGO!!! THANK YOU!!!</p>
<p>Wow, <em>someone</em> has been reading what I’ve taken the time to write! :)</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>B, you are welcome to bring up any topic you wish as a thread. And yes, people can skip threads that don’t interest them. I didn’t say it wasn’t of interest to me. I just wonder the rationale for rehashing it all. I am not sure the value in starting a thread about something else you don’t like about this teacher. But it is OK. I am simply expressing my view. When you start a thread, you are going to garner many viewponts and they may not all agree with yours. I think as long as discussion is respectful, it is fine. Some of the discussion appears contentious and I do find that unpleasant. If anything, I was hoping for you to avoid having that happen to you once again. </p>
<p>As far as your winning the case, I would have to go back to where I read where I got that understanding. I thought you said your group had prevailed. Did I read that wrong? I have to go find where I read that I guess.</p>
<p>^^The teacher is leaving, but that was not what our goal was, nor did we ask for either her resignation or her termination. Don’t get me wrong. I’m DELIGHTED that she’s leaving because of her cruelty to my family during this set of events (trashing me in front of my kids’ acquaintances AT SCHOOL DURING CLASS), but our ONLY goal was to restore our yearbook to something which focused more heavily on positive, school-sponsored activities, and in that regard, we will not have the “results” until August.</p>
<p>~berurah
p.s. There was also a new bill introduced in the state legislature in an effort to bring back a little more guidance to the student publications process in KS, and that <em>was</em> a victory.</p>
<p>B,
I certainly HAVE been reading what you have “taken the time to write.” It doesn’t mean I have to align my views with everything you write. I agree with lots you have written on CC. I have supported you many times. I think you know this. I think it is OK if friends have various perspectives on something. I mean are we only supposed to post if we agree with everything you have written? I already appauded you for advocating for something you felt strongly about. Does it really matter if I agree with every aspect?</p>
<p>B,
In no way was I comparing a college yearbook to a high school one. I even said it was different. I just mentioned what was in it. Nothing more. Should I then ask if you are reading what I wrote?? If you go back and read that post, I said of course it was not the same and they are adults in college. </p>
<p>SS,
Of course teen pregnancy is not an accomplishment! It is not a good thing. I surely don’t think it’s a good thing for teens.</p>
<p>However, I don’t totally agree that a yearbook is for “celebrating.” I don’t agree that they should only put in the yearbook the kids who have done things worthy of celebration. I think all kids should be in the candids. Whatever was important to some may not be to others. And so it is.</p>
<p>I surely was not comparing boy toys with teen pregnancy. No way was I saying these should NOT be in the yearbook. I was saying that certain students and their interests were chosen to be displayed. Their interests don’t mirror my kids’ interests but that’s OK by me. Just like tattoos don’t interest my kids but I realize there is a segment of the school where this is meaningful in their lives. I could care less about photos of any of these kids and their interests. I was also joking that if we have a boy toy page, maybe I should protest that there is no girl toy page. I’m not against the boy toy page whatsoever. I don’t really care if some kids’ interests are not as wholesome as other kids’ interests. Whatever memories they have of high school might be different than my kids’ memories. So be it. They are all part of the class. It is their yearbook too. </p>
<p>I don’t mind that there are no photos of the many academic, arts, and sports awards in our yearbook. For one thing, the yearbook goes to the publisher long before that year’s awards come out. It might be nice to have the awards in the yearbook but the yearbook simply isn’t the place where the awards are documented here. They are covered well in the local paper and such. Just because they are not in the yearbook, doesn’t mean kids doing great things are never recognized. I think they are recognized. The yearbook isn’t the place where our school does that, however.</p>
<p>I hope people take the time to read the link beurah posted to the controversy at Boulder High School. It relates directly to the OP concerning the judgment of teachers and administrators concerning the lack of boundaries. It is really the most shocking example of egregious behavior in this regard that I’ve read for quite sometime.</p>
<p>It did not surprise me that it was a student who questioned the content at the assembly:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Apparently there was applause from the kids in the audience to this comment. Mr. Becker responded by saying that he thought it was admirable that the audience was accepting of other viewpoints; but, however, he personally fears religious viewpoints because people who hold such views might attempt to influence students’ free choice to have sex and use drugs.</p>
<p>It’s pretty amazing when the kids show more maturity than their educators.</p>
<p>Berurah, </p>
<p>I found a couple of things you said on THIS thread that led me to believe that your side of this issue “won” or prevailed. I haven’t bothered to go back to the original yearbook controversy thread where I had also gotten the same impression. </p>
<p>On this thread, you wrote:</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>You later wrote:
</p>
<p>I may have misunderstood something here. I thought your group, which represented numerous community members who signed a petition, had “won.” If I am wrong, please clarify my misunderstanding and inference drawn from your statements. </p>
<p>In post #77, you thanked me for my “voice of reason.” That must be because you agreed with something I had written. Sometimes I agree with ya on some things and not on others. I would hope that is OK. I mean …is it all right with you if not everyone on this thread supports each point of view you hold?</p>
<p>
Umm…a yearbook’s entire purpose is to celebrate. Celebrate that you graduated. Rember the fun times you had. I’ll repeat AGAIN, that all kids should be included in candids & scattered throughout the book’s pages. A celebration moment could be being presented a plaque when she scored the 1000th point in a basketball career. Or it could be doing a cartwheel in a random hallway when hanging out with one’s friend. Happy, positive memories. Both big and small. Why exclude a celebratory moment just because it got some coverage in another venue? That’s silly. The newspaper gets tossed in the recycling bin, The yearbook is a lasting momento.</p>
<p>"In your haste to condemn and accuse me (and twist and turn my words) yet again, you have produced an unintelligible statement. If you don’t mind my asking, were you sober when you wrote this? "</p>
<p>Is disagreement the same as condemnation? And I guess we’re even at the pokes as no I was sober. Good shot though. If I ever have the need to join AA, I can use it as an opener.</p>
<p>Sometimes I respond in a nonsensical way because quite frankly it’s the only way to respond to some of the nonsense the gang of four puts out there.</p>
<p>I googled your story last night and I do think your fibbing a bit to win an audience. For that I just feel sorry for you. No condemnation, no anger, just a good feeling that our towns are thousands of miles apart and your attitudes towards toward young pregnant teens doesn’t prevail in my hometown. Your like the person who while saying "no " is nodding “yes” at the same time.</p>
<p>“I mean …is it all right with you if not everyone on this thread supports each point of view you hold?”</p>
<p>Careful Sooz, you getting very close to joining me on the dark side. Do not question, do not reason, do not attempt to find a middle ground, just march in lockstep and endorse what we do without question. We know what’s best for all.</p>
<p>Susan~</p>
<p>The fact that the teacher is not returning is a victory of sorts, though it is not one that we sought specifically. Pardon me if earlier in this thread I could not contain my joy at her departure. Her unprofessional attitude in the classroom brought a great deal of grief to my girls, by way of the ugliness she promoted IN CLASS in front of acquaintances of my kids. So, yeah, I did consider that a victory, even though it was not on the list of things we asked for at the board meeting.</p>
<p>You are free to disagree with me on any- and everything, and surely we do have a great deal of disagreement in this thread. What I’m having a harder time processing is your continued questioning of the <em>value</em> of the thread. If you don’t find it to be valuable, you are not compelled to contribute. If you <em>are</em> contributing, I might assume that you are finding some value here.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>SS,
You may be misunderstanding my point of view. I am not saying to EXCLUDE celebratory moments because they got coverage in another venue~! I already said that I would welcome awards in the yearbook. I was merely stating that OUR yearbook has no awards in it, but that doesn’t bother me. Many awards are too late for publishing the yearbook. I was saying that the yearbook is not the definitive statement as to our school’s values and priorities and levels of recognition for worthy endeavors. I was merely stating that those things DO happen here, just not IN the yearbook. These kids are surely recognized. I wasn’t say to exclude that from the yearbook, however. It simply is not in our yearbook but that is OK as they are still recognized in ceremonies, publications, and in our local paper. I am NOT advocating for excluding this coverage in the yearbook, but only saying it is not covered here and so it is not all that unusual that it is not covered in berurah’s yearbook either. </p>
<p>I don’t think the yearbook should pick and choose who to celebrate. I think it should include a wide range of kids from the senior class and their interests, even if not all those kids are the types we normally recognize with awards and things of that sort. The yearbook is the only place I have even heard about some of these kids, frankly. A yearbook is a documentation of the class and all who was in it, the good and the “bad” kids both. The yearbook belongs to them all. And so, yes, I am for including anyone you think was excluded from the yearbook (the academic stars or whomever you are upset were not included). But I do not think we also need to exclude the kids who are not the shining stars or who are not the ones to emulate. If this was some award ceremony, I surely wouldn’t expect an award for the pregnancy or the tatoos, but this is simply a memory book about all the kids in the class. I say include them all. Yes, include the academic stars like you want. But not to the exclusion of those on the “fringe”. </p>
<p>Berurah, did you say that this yearbook won an award? I recall you saying you though the teacher supervisor for the yearbook was only interested in winning awards. Did this one win? Just curious, thanks. I couldn’t tell.</p>
<p>OpieofMaybery2: You need to get out more if you feel so persecuted by four people who hold different views from yours. Maybe spend some vacation time in a red state? Really, we’re not that scary.</p>
<p>
Yes, of course. What is NOT O.K. is to continuously MISrepresent what I’m saying. I have NEVER asked that the pregnant girls be excluded from the yearbook, only that a feature not HIGHLIGHT the pregnancy in a positive light. In other words, I am all FOR inclusion of the pregnant girls, as long as they are shown doing the same positive, school-sponsored activities as other student or if they happen to be included in candid shots.</p>
<p>You have continuously charged me with wanting to exclude the pregnant girls. None of us who spoke in front of the board asked for that. </p>
<p>You are free to disagree…but no one is free to misrepresent.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>Berurah,
If you didn’t “win”, then what was the outcome? I thought your group prevailed. And I was never referring to the the fact that the teacher is leaving. I was talking about your discussing winning this case in and of itself. Perhaps you can explain the outcome as I am confused.</p>
<p>It is not that I think this discussion is not of value. Yes, I am joining in the discussion. I just did not see the purpose of rehashing it and it appeared to be brought up again in relation to what else about this teacher was dissatisfactory. You are welcome to discuss the whole controversy again here. It does open you up to those who don’t agree with everything and if you are willing to rehash those wounds, that is your choice. I know you feel strongly about this issue and continue to advocate in your community, as well as on CC.</p>
<p>I didn’t say YOU wanted to exclude the pregnant girls. You did not want them featured, as I understand it. It was OK if they were in school EC photos or other candid shots. You also didn’t want the academic honors excluded. </p>
<p>My point of view is to have all types of kids represented as the yearbook is a documentation of the class and their varied interests, even if those interests are not the ones the school typically honors otherwise. There are factions in the school who want to feature certain things. That wouldn’t bother me so much. I agree that other factions should also be represented and featured as well.</p>
<p>soozievt: I tried to widen the discussion, and direct it back to the OP by pointing out beurah’s link to the BHS controversy, which you have ignored, as you’ve ignored other attempts to redirect the thread back to the OP. 
</p>
<p>
I am not against wholesome interests of all kinds being featured, but in proportion to the interest of the student body. For example, there was a two page, color, expensive spread on myspace and xanga sites. There was a display on the skate park, etc. No one objected to those. BUT, in the tattoo/piercing pages, there were messages that were detrimental. One of the pieces of text suggested that if you were underage and your parent didn’t give approval for a tattoo that it was fine to go behind your parents’ backs and get one anyway. Additional text suggested that self piercing with a “70-cent needle” was a good idea if you could not afford a professional piercing. We simply provided statistics to the school board on the incidence of hepatitis from tattoos and infections from self piercing to show that these were not good messages for a SCHOOL to provide to young people.</p>
<p>If there were a two page layout on kids’ cars and in it kids advocated driving without a license, I’d feel the same way about that message. Those types of messages are already out there…they do not need to come with a school district’s approval attached.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>“Really, we’re not that scary.”</p>
<p>Actually you are. </p>
<p>Some of the issues you rail in outrage about simply aren’t that outrageous. When pointed out, there’s an outrage over that and so it goes…</p>
<p>I just figure my offspring will checkmate yours and so on and so on…</p>
<p>HH, I am totally confused. Berurah WAS the OP. </p>
<p>I responded in the second post to her original topic and in a couple subsequent posts. </p>
<p>Later, the topic turned into a discussion of the yearbook controversy. I believe Berurah is participating in discussing the yearbook controversy, too. I am responding to various posts on the topic being discussed as it morphs. Both topics, by the way, discussed this same teacher. </p>
<p>As far as the BHS controversy, I am under no obligation to discuss it and it doesn’t interest me that much. I think you oppose the views of that speaker. I didn’t think that post had to do with how friendly a teacher is with the students he/she mentors. It seems to be a different topic. </p>
<p>I am not ignoring attempts to redirect the thread back to the first post about friendships between a teacher and her students, with the example being drawn from this yearbook teacher. I discussed the topic when it was on that and now with the discussion on yearbooks, have responded in kind to that topic. I have no interest in the BHS controversy and have no obligation to discuss your post. I responded to the posts that interested me.</p>