susan, I have explained this in earlier posts. We do not know what the outcome was/will be. Our district has not and will not communicate with us. I’m talking about the administration and the school board. All we KNOW is that the teacher is leaving, which I prematurely labeled a “victory” even though none of us had this on our list of goals. And a bill has been introduced in the KS legislature. In August, we will see the yearbook, and I suspect that there may be some changes. I suspect the teacher would have stayed if the yearbook was going to be a repeat of last year’s. JUST GUESSING THOUGH.</p>
<p>HH: THe Boulder High assembly is beyond disturning. Sadly, it is not an anomoly. It ties in to this thread’s theme, which is not merely about a yearbook. It is about the coarsening of our culture. The strange desire of some teachers to go beyond the boundaries of teacher/mentor, perhaps as a way to be liked or gain approval (What’s lacking in their lives that would make them seek out teens as peers? I wonder.) The sad push to strip away our kids’ innocence. The mocking disdain for any religion or tradition. </p>
<p>Teach my kids to read, write, and reason. If I feel they need dental dams to prevent STD transmission, I’ll take care of that myself, than you very much.</p>
<p>If people like Berurah don’t stand up & question, then the Boulder H.S. assembly could soon be the standard curriculum in h.s. health class.</p>
<p>B…I don’t think of the yearbook as “advocating” anything. I think of it as kids choosing which memories they wish to document. </p>
<p>In our yearbook, each senior writes up their own text of a third of a page spread. They can write about any memories they wish. Some talk of this or that party or whatever. Those are their memories. The yearbook is a social memory too. I don’t think it is a news story showing all sides of “issues”. I don’t think of it as a teaching device or representing the adults’ viewpoints. I think it represents whatever these kids choose to remember about high school. Unfortunately, some kids aren’t do very wholesome things. Their memories of high school are nothing like my kids’ memories but it doesn’t bother me and I don’t think they are speaking for what is right, good, or for what the school stands for. They are just speaking their thoughts, their memories of fun, whatever.</p>
<p>“My offspring will checkmate yours…” What a lovely sentiment.</p>
<p>By OP I meant “original POST.” The original post was not about the yearbook, if I remember correctly by this point. It was about boundaries between students and teachers. I find it odd that the people who keep proclaiming they don’t want the yearbook issue discussed are the ones who keep coming back to the yearbook issue. They have been given many chances to revert back to the original post.</p>
<p>Thank you berurah for clarifying the outcome. I had gotten the impression that your group prevailed based on some of your statements (and again, I don’t mean the fact that the teacher was leaving which was not your goal and was a recent development). So, you are saying your group was heard but there was no outcome? You did say that a bill went to the KS legislature as a result of your petition and advocating, right? So, your group was heard, in any case. I thought you had “won” based on previous statements but maybe that remains up in the air.</p>
<p>Well, soozievt, if the original post doesn’t interest you much, why do you continue to post here. </p>
<p>The BHS issue is not about “friendliness;” it is about boundaries–strangers being invited into a school to discuss very personal issues with students, which are better handled by parents or at the very least trusted educators. That the adults in charge of the school would even entertain the idea of holding such an assembly is a very important issue of our time. You can’t just ignore the issue in the hope that it will go away. If you read the transcript, you will find that the speakers crossed WAY over the line.</p>
<p>“I respond to the posts that interest me.” Well you keep saying the yearbook posts should not be here, and then you keep responding to them. You might as well admit that the yearbook posts interest you. :)</p>
<p>HH…I didn’t say the OP didn’t interest me much. I responded to the OP in a few posts. Then when the topic turned to yearbooks, I responded to that. Yes, I was interested. I was saying I am NOT interested in the BHS issue. You are right, it is not about friendships between mentors and students. </p>
<p>I don’t find the Bouder High School topic to be on topic. I didn’t want to get into a discussion about that and so I refrained from discussing your views on the speakers. I welcome such discussions in schools and debate on all points of views and issues. In fact, I find it scary that a very small group of parents can and have tried to censor books and topics in the schools. I don’t wish to debate that here as I don’t find that to be ON topic, so I have refrained from responding to your posts on BHS, which by the way was NOT part of the OP. I did respond to the OP and to the subsequent posts by berurah about the yearbook. I choose to respond to what interests me and leave the rest. </p>
<p>I didn’t say the yearbook posts should not be here. I welcome such discussion. I am not sure the rationale for a new thread on this same debate, but it’s here. I will say, yes, it interests me. Are you happy now? I NEVER said it wasn’t of interest. I am not sure why the yearbook controversy is being rehashed but so be it.</p>
<p>Censoring books has nothing to do with the original post–boundaries between students and teachers. The BHS link that berurah posted is on topic, in my opinion, but I suppose that is up to debate; at any rate, it might require the showing of outrage, which, for the most part in these parts, is a dirty word.</p>
<p>Frankly, if you had not kept dwelling on the yearbook topic (including pages and pages of posts about your and your kids’ yearbooks in minute detail) the yearbook portion of this thread would have died out long ago. :)</p>
<p>HH, I am not the one who brought up yearbooks. The detail of what is in our yearbooks is a way to show other examples of yearbooks and also that the academic awards were not included in it. Surely there was no more detail than that which I have learned about the yearbook at a certain high school in Kansas. This thread is all related to the yearbook and the discomfort as well with this teacher and her friendship and mentoring of students. It is not as if this thread is about another school or teacher. I don’t think I am dwelling on the yearbook. I am responding to posts on a topic, as discussions go. </p>
<p>The BHS topic is not on this topic in my view. Discuss it if you wish. I chose not to get into what topics teachers can discuss with students and so forth. I do believe you do not want those things that the speakers discussed at the assembly to be allowed. That is similar to parents here who want certain books or handouts or topics to not be allowed in the classroom either.</p>
<p>soozievt: I cannot believe you read the entire transcript beurah posted. If you do not take issue with the majority of what was said to the high school sophomores by that panel, we have bigger problems here than even I thought.</p>
<p>HH, I have read the entire transcript in the BHS link. Again, I do not think this is ON topic with this thread. I think it could be its own thread and that is why I chose not to comment about it. It isn’t about friendships with students. </p>
<p>The Boulder HS situation has to do with a panel discussion relating to sex and drug use. I understand that you do not agree with the points of view expressed by those on the panel. I am familiar with your point of view. I think you prefer schools to only espouse your point of view which is abstinence. I think some educators espouse a point of view about being informed IF you choose to have sex. Again, I don’t think this is the topic of this thread at all. However, as in past discussions as to what is OK in your view in schools, or not, as the case may be, I think if you truly want a school to espouse your values and viewpoints with regard to these sorts of topics, you may have to choose to send your children to parochial school, which I think you have done. I truly don’t wish to debate all that on this thread, as it doesn’t seem on topic with the OP relating to teachers crossing the line into friendships. I don’t think it has to do with teachers getting close with students and where to draw the line, etc. The BHS situation has to do with which topics and views are off limits in schools, etc. Again, we have had a minority of parents here too who have tried to remove materials or teachers because they don’t agree with what is allowed or not in school, or that it doesn’t reflect their value systems of what is taboo or not. So, going back to what I posted a while back…WHO decides what is OK as far as materials and topics in schools? A minority of parents? I have seen that circumstance come up here where I live. I will spare you the details since you took offense that I gave the details of our yearbook even though I know lots of details of the high school with the yearbook in Kansas. </p>
<p>B…you may have missed it, but I am wondering if your school yearbook won some state award? I can’t recall. I do recall you saying you felt the teacher was motivated by trying to earn awards for the yearbook. Did they win any? I saw that some journalism students won awards for your high school. I’m not sure about the yearbook though. I didn’t even know there was such a thing as yearbook awards but I gather there must be in your state since you said the teacher was seeking such recognition for her group’s yearbook.</p>
<p>Okay, admittedly I don’t have time to read everything on this thread right now, but I am kind of surprised at how antagonized some people seem to be at the idea of including acadmic achievements in the yearbook. Surely those are part of high school life, no? </p>
<p>I cannot find anything where Berurah advocates excluding kids because they are pregnant, tatooed or pierced. I am not finding that she has a problem including all types of kids in the yearbook. That would go against her nature. I believe she is saying that the focus should be on other things, like academic achievements. But I don’t see anywhere that she wants to exclude certain people from the book.</p>
<p>And no, it is not right (IMO) to leave all the academic stuff out of the yearbook. That does not present an accurate portrayal of high school, unless the high schools really are not a place for taking classes, learning academic subjects, – sadly, this might be the case in some high schools. . .</p>
<p>I suppose if one were to really present <em>everything</em> that happens in our local public, the year book could do a big color spread on a lunch room brawl (which has been known to happen, and believe me, is part of the high school memory for some kids!). But what is the point of that?</p>
<p>Parents need to speak up when teachers, administrators get off track. It is the right thing to do. Kudos to those who have the courage to speak up when they believe something should be changed.</p>
The BHS event was extremely relevant and also more than a little related to this thread, at least insofar as this thread has meandered to a variety of subjects around free speech and school propriety.</p>
<p>What the BHS topic and the yearbook topic have in common is the idea of a school’s endorsing with the “stamp” of its name subjects that are inappropriate for the venue.</p>
<p>I don’t think that there are very many parents here who would approve of a panelist addressing a room of high schoolers (which includes 14 and 15 year olds) and telling them to go ahead and “enjoy” sex and drugs in a responsible fashion. That was part of the message that was given to the high school students in Boulder, along with the message that condoms blunt sensation and that it is perfectly normal and natural for all kids to experiment with same-gender sex. </p>
<p>As a parent, these are ABSOLUTELY not messages that I want given to my children. Along those same lines, I felt it that some of the messages in our yearbook violated the principles of responsibility within a school setting.</p>
<p>What someone wants to teach/show/demonstrate with their kids within the privacy of their own home is fine. Where I have the objection is where a controversial message that is clearly NOT supported by all is forced on others in a public school setting.</p>
<p>So, these two things are very much related, and the issue is extremely relevant as there seem to be more and more of these issues arising around the country. </p>
Yes, mstee. We cannot talk out of both sides of our mouth. If parents are denigrated for NOT being involved, they cannot also be denigrated for BEING involved.</p>
<p>By the same token, if we are FOR free speech, we are FOR free speech for EVERYONE, not the chosen few.</p>
<p>By the way, Berurah, I have applauded you for speaking up for what you believe in, whether or not I agree with the views or not. In fact, earlier in the thread I mentioned the importance of parent involvement in schools when done in appropriate ways. I think that was when you thanked me for having a voice of reason.</p>
<p>Absolutely, beurah, and SS made very good points in her post above also about this.</p>
<p>OpieofMaybery2: I feel fortunate that I do not possess the kind of mentality that needs to “checkmate” your kid’s views (which are exactly like yours, I take it) with my kid’s. In fact, my kid is his own person, so it’s very likely he has views that differ from mine. In fact, both my sons are more liberal and less liberal/more conservative and less conservative than I am on different subjects. I teach my kids to think for themselves–something I try to do. My views are not black/white on all topics–far from it, although people here consistently try to paint me as a right-wing, religious zealot reactionary. The attempt by you and others here to paint “the gang of four” as such is either consciously designed to shut down discussion, or is simply indicative of your own limitations.</p>
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