<p>SS’s son is ten years old I believe. I’m pushing 60 myself (well not quite-a few more years yet!) and I wasn’t even a gleam in my parents’ eye during WWII.</p>
<p>
You would get along well with our yearbook sponsor. She felt just as you did. However, there are many who disagree with you. So, whose views do you represent?</p>
<p>I had never actually looked at one of my kids’ yearbooks. The <em>only</em> reason why I even KNEW <em>what</em> was in that yearbook was because it was brought to me by a group of <strong>STUDENTS</strong>–not parents–students, who were extremely offended by its content (I believe the whole board knows that I have a mentoring relationship with a good number of kids in our community.) These were kids who, even if they weren’t all high functioning academic kids, had spent the vast majority of their personal time in school-sponsored, productive activities and questioned WHY those things seemed to count for little when rule breaking and generally educationally-detrimental activities RULED the publication.</p>
<p>I thought it was a good question, so I asked it publicly via an editorial after having gotten NO response to my private inquiries.</p>
<p>kluge, whether you or ms. journalism sponsor agree, most feel that the yearbook is for EVERYONE. Just as your kid apparently has NO interest in looking back on NMF’s, mine has no desire to look back on a random kid’s tattoos or alterna-piercings, or on who used poor enough judgment to get pregnant at 14 or 15. These weren’t things MY kids did. My kids didn’t get pierced,tattooed, cheat on tests from “nerdy” kids, skip class to make out in the halls, get married at the winter formal, or get knocked up. These people hold NO interest for my children, so should they be left out?? Should every academic student be left out because YOUR kid doesn’t want to look at 'em 30 years later? 
(Every other activity which gave out school letters was covered, except the academic letters, btw.)</p>
<p>So, you see, kluge, we have a problem. Is it YOUR way? Or MY way? Or EVERYONE’S WAY? Should YOU determine what your child looks back on 30 years later (and yes, I’ve pulled by yearbook out just recently out of curiosity when this controversy erupted–our yearbook gave plenty of coverage to kids who gave much into their h.s. careers, whether it be in academics, sports, community service or whatever). </p>
<p>What YOU deem appropriate should be given no more credence than what <em>I</em> deem appropriate. We are, after all, both just expressing personal opinions, aren’t we? ;)</p>
<p>As far as my “gloating” about this victory. Yes, I am justifiably proud that the grassroots efforts I and many others put toward making sure the yearbook was for EVERYONE was heard. I did something GOOD…and beneficial for the students of our entire district. If the journalism teacher is as talented as you feel she is, she will find good, productive work in a place with better “fit,” right? ;)</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>Berurah, how do you square “the yearbook is for EVERYONE” with
Because as best I can tell, your complaint, and petition, were based on the use of four pages from a yearbook to include those kids who aren’t “your kids.” From independent accounts, the rest of the yearbook was typical articles and pictures about clubs, teams and activities common to high schools across the country. As best I can tell, your beef was that the pictures of the clubs, etc., were too small, and the pictures of the people you disapprove of were, well, there at all.</p>
<p>And you’ve missed the point about NMF’s. A yearbook is a memoir - a recording of activities and associations. Who won what award just isn’t a part of the memory of school. I was a NMF. So what? It had nothing to do with my high school experience. Other than (very temporary) bragging rights for anyone who cared to take the credit, it has no place in a memoir of my high school years. My kids’ yearbooks (and we have about ten of them at this point) contain lots of silly articles and pictures chronicling the experience of being at school. Girlfriend and boyfriends, social groups, twins, cool and/or goofy cars are all noted in various books. No awards or honors of any kind - academic, athletic, humanitarian, are listed anywhere that I’ve noticed. And that’s appropriate to the function of the yearbook, as I see it. </p>
<p>You claim to want the yearbook to be for everyone, but your actions look a lot more like you want it to only be for the ones you approve of. I’m not the only one to make that observation - just the latest. And by the way - did the yearbook really advise students to cheat on tests, or are you exaggerating?</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>kluge~</p>
<p>Not every “independent account” is objective. Mine isn’t. Yours isn’t. And the ones you read weren’t either. Each account takes into consideration the biases of the writer, no matter what side of a controversy they were on.</p>
<p>See, you have already been misled. Let me try to set you straight here:</p>
<p>1.) None of <em>MY</em> kids, including my very high-achieving son, were NMFs. Neither was I.</p>
<p>2.) The objections of others and myself went FAR beyond four pages. It was expressed to us parents that there was no room for group pictures of positive, school sponsored activities in the front, so they were relegated to tiny photos next to index listings. O.K. But, there WAS room up front for large, expensive, two-page color spreads on teen pregnancy (including sonogram and baby pics), public displays of affection (including captions that explained that students frequently cut class to sit in the halls and smooch–not a suprise, of course, but also not particularly newsworthy), tattoos and piercings, including captions about going behind your parents’ backs to get a tattoo if you had been denied one by your parents and the financial benefits of do-it-yourself piercings at the cost of a 70-cent needle, the renaming of our winter formal, Holly Ball, to “Wedding Bells” because one student out of 2200 got married and wore a wedding gown there, a spread on how one basically can’t get through the day without a caffeine addiction, and yes, a page on study skills with the ONE quote highlighted (made BIG and BOLD) that said, “The best study skill I know is to find a nerdy kid and make friends with him. It’s a guaranteed A.” Let’s see…how many pages is that? At least 12, and I’m probably leaving out some.</p>
<p>IF you don’t have room for positive, school sponsored activities to be featured in the front, then you need to make sure that you don’t feature maladaptive activities more prominently. It’s really quite simple.</p>
<p>As far as what a yearbook is for…Hmmmmm, well, a memoir of a school is just that–a memoir of a SCHOOL. A school is in existence primarily for academic purposes, or at least it definitely should be. To say that the students’ out of school activities (partying, getting pregnant, drugging, drinking, permanently altering their bodies, etc.) should dominate a school publication makes no sense. It’s like the tail wagging the dog. If some students make the choice of putting more productive effort into their h.s. involvement, then they should be rewarded. That is the purpose of a school–to educate young people and to prepare them for future success, whether that be in college or in the military or the world of work. Why reward activites that are at odds with educational missions?</p>
<p>It’s really unfair (though not unlike your other dirty tricks in this thread) for you to take snippets of my posts and twist them to make me look bad. I was basing what you quoted above on YOUR post…the part where you said that your kid had no interest in looking back on NMFs. I was making the point that everyone has different ideas on what they feel is appropriate to a yearbook. That’s all. </p>
<p>What’s terribly ironic about this whole thing is that NONE of us at the board meeting asked that all of this content be removed. We asked that it be in proportion to coverage of positive, school sponsored events. And whether you believe it or not, we did have serious concerns about the featuring of a pregnancy of a girl who was having sex and becoming pregnant at a legally prosecutable age. Dangerous territory there, and certainly nothing to be “bragged” about in a yearbook. Whether the subject is NMFs or getting knocked up, it’s all about bragging, right? ;)</p>
<p>All kinds of honors and awards are listed in our yearbook…just not any academic ones. That is discriminatory and uncalled for, and it’s promoting an anti-educational bias (in favor of questionable activities that do NOT lead to academic success). Just as “most likely to’s” should be covered, so should those who are high functioning and school appropriate. </p>
<p>You are basing all of your commentary on this issue on extremely biased sources. As an attorney, you know better than that, kluge. When you get a good, up-close look at our yearbook and hear both sides of the issue from original sources, you will be qualified to make the judgments that you have made.</p>
<p>Just to be clear here: Are you really, honestly justifying the publication of a yearbook which omits ALL coverage of academic activities in a high school setting? And if so, why?</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>“SS’s son is ten years old I believe. I’m pushing 60 myself (well not quite-a few more years yet!) and I wasn’t even a gleam in my parents’ eye during WWII.”</p>
<p>The point is oviously lost on you isn’t it? </p>
<p>SS first said he did it to work… Why?? </p>
<p>I dunno maybe…</p>
<p>to save for college
help family with rent
pay for that operation for his cousin Billy
to buy a car
to play piano for pay
to have sex with frogs</p>
<p>All are possibilities no? Some are just a bit more far fetched than others. Outside of the frog thing, all SEEM fairly reasonable don’t they. </p>
<p>Is the forest getting in the way of the trees here?</p>
<p>I don’t care if he did it to save the planet–that’s the point; it’s not appropriate for any teacher to share that story with ten year olds.</p>
<p>Although I must confess it’s not too different from the story my son’s math teacher told his class about growing pot on her windowsill in college. No big deal, I know.</p>
<p>You are willing to make up any kind of sob story to cover for this particular man. You know nothing about his life but are willing to get extremely nasty at just the idea that someone would dare to criticize him–a complete stranger to you–simply because he is a teacher.</p>
<p>I try as much as possible NOT to be in our yearbook. They have some policy of getting everyone once though and sadly they always find me more than once. We don’t really have NMFs often (none this year) so it would make for a pretty bad feature, but I don’t know, maybe they do something when there is one. No one looks at those parts (including other activities and full team sports photos - I HATE when I’m on our team’s page, the pictures are always awful) anyway because they aren’t funny. </p>
<p>Actually this year I was pretty masterful this year because I missed both my senior picture dates. LOL So I’m not even in that section. They probably got me though…they always do.</p>
<p>
ITA, hh, though propriety seems to be old fashioned these days… ;)</p>
<p>
Except I never said that, and you did say the things I cut and pasted. Dirty tricks? you repeatedly written, here and elsewhere, thatthe yearbook provides “recognition for … cheating from “nerdy” kids to get A’s” and “stands defiantly in favor of … cheaters” based on a highlighted quote which said “The best study skill I know is to find a nerdy kid and make friends with him. It’s a guaranteed A.” Have you really fairly presented the issue for the CC community?</p>
<p>Little League redux. But even sadder this time around.</p>
<p>“You are willing to make up any kind of sob story to cover for this particular man”</p>
<p>and there were people who threw stones at jesus as he went by…</p>
<p>Why must you villify this man? Is he truly evil? The devil? Look at what you’re writing about somebody you don’t know. How can you be so bitter?</p>
<p>You are creating hate for somebody you don’t even know. Somebody who came back off retirement to LTS. What this man said wasn’t evil at all, how you can attempt to make it so, is pretty frightening… I feel sorry for you.</p>
<p>“though propriety seems to be old fashioned these days”</p>
<p>You guys do realize your daming a kid for getting a job. </p>
<p>Maybe there’s alot of support out there amognst all the readers for you guys and I hope they jump in. You’ve decided to cruicfy a man for an innocent remark that you don’t know other than trying to make me look bad for not seeing the problem the way you do. He did something to work… to work… to work… he didn’t tell the kids he did it to buy drugs or drink booze (you folks added that implication) </p>
<p>SS changing the story into something evil because it was pointed out it was about work. It had to be changed to make the guy evil… </p>
<p>Shameful. just shameful…</p>
<p>
I can only imagine what you let slide while presiding over Little League…you certainly seem to carry a great deal of baggage and bitterness over such a long-ago experience. I’m sorry that it was so unpleasant for you that it has colored your view of all parents everywhere who want what’s best for both their children and others.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>
Ummmm, no. You inserted YOUR OWN words into one of my quotes. Words that you inferred that <em>I</em> had said when in reality I hadn’t. That is playing dirty, IMHO. But then, you’ve already let your stance on propriety be known to all.</p>
<p>
Yes, as much as I am able to without compromising the privacy of some people on the other side of the issue, and unlike you, I would not do that.</p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>Just letting everyone know that I have made my points on this thread and have come to realize that it is a pretty time-wasting endeavor to try and find common ground with certain posters on the other side of this issue. We’ll simply have to agree to disagree, and let it go. Meanwhile, my beautiful oldest daughter walks tomorrow for graduation! It’s celebration time in our household and time to move on to something joyous and positive! 
Thanks to all who took the time to contribute to this thread, even if it did get WAAAAAY off track very early and never made it back to the original question. <em>lol</em></p>
<p>~berurah</p>
<p>As far as I know, no one used the words–“evil, shameful, vilify, crucify, hate, bitter, frightening.”</p>
<p>This is your hyperbole.</p>
<p>The word I used was inappropriate.</p>
<p>The OP, I thought, was about boundaries between students and teachers. I submit that in many, many cases the boundaries between teachers and students are pretty weak these days. There are reasons for this. It would be nice to be able to try and explore them here. This is being bitter and frightening and throwing stones?</p>
<p>SS offered up one story. You’ll be pleased to know I didn’t even dream of going to my son’s principal with the pot on the windowsill story. I am completely inured to these kinds of comments at this point. As I said, I work in the system. </p>
<p>As for the yearbook, I can’t even imagine why anyone would try to make excuses for the extremely poor judgment of the yearbook advisor. It’s so clear berurah did the right thing. Here again, you complain about the 75% of parents who don’t get involved, and then also about the 25% who do.</p>
<p>I think you both prefer the 75%. Then you can run your little kingdoms the way you want to, without any interference–as it’s so clear you’re used to doing.</p>
<p>I have not read every post, but this topic is of interest to me. My 23 year old son is going to start teaching high school in the Fall. He was a bit concerned with being so close in age to the kids; he feels like high school really wasn’t that long ago, and it wasn’t! </p>
<p>After visiting the school and seeing the kids in class he realized he was older that her thought. He also said it helped that he is a “big” boy and the junior seem so small! I realized how much my son had grown physically and mentally when he was telling me about his visit. He was put off by the kids that were rummaging through their backpacks and playing with their cell phones during class. At his high school backpacks were not allowed in class and phones were only to be used after school hours, not even at lunch. He said all it took was one student to pull out the phone and the other students became distracted.</p>
<p>I wasn’t sure my son would be a great teacher, but after listening to him talk about what he would be doing, I stand corrected. I think he will take with him a little bit of his great high school teacher and leave behind his bad teacher. Maybe he learned more in school than I thought and might become one of those teachers that every parent wants their child to have!</p>
<p>Snowball, I think your son will make a great teacher. Being young can be an asset. He might be able to relate well to the students. Also, he comes to the job with fresh ideas and motivation to do the job well. Teaching is such a dedicated job and it takes special people to do it. Your son will make a difference in young people’s lives. Good luck to him as he begins what I hope will be a rewarding experience.</p>
<p>Maybe I’m missing something, but the quoted comment about becoming friends with a nerd isn’t necessarily glorifying “cheating” is it? It’s unfortunate if more mainstream student activities didn’t get equal time, and I suppose that’s true-- though I haven’t seen the yearbook, just read a little about it-- but this does seem like a tempest in a teapot to me. So much outrage about a yearbook!</p>
<p>A few teachers do cross the line, but I think it’s VERY few. I would save my outrage and activism for them and let the others be. Or make sure I communicated my discomfort directly to them and then move on. I haven’t heard anything yet about this teacher that justifies job loss. Questioning of her judgment, maybe.</p>
<p>Good luck to your son, snowball. It is a tough job, teaching high school. My hats off to all of those teachers who do a fine job, which is most of them! My oldest son had a couple of fantastic young, energetic teachers in high school a few years ago, but unfortunately, they soon left his school (our local public) for greener pastures. Our school district pays lower than the surrounding area, and there are other things about it that make it hard to retain young talent. 
.</p>
<p>Thanks, HH. Only someone with very questionable motives would characterize my description of this incident as an attempt to “crucify” the teacher. Here’s what I said:
As those with no deficits in reading comprehension skills can see, I called it a possible “lapse of judgment” that might require a “bit of guidance” from the experienced principal. I had assumed the guy was a green teacher. Never thought he was a veteran. The guy is a sub. I didn’t even know his name & there is no mechanism in our district for speaking with subs other than through the principal. </p>
<p>Opie, I never changed the story! You clearly have a problem with the truth. The guy used a fake id to sneak into a bar. Whether he was earning $$ to save the planet or blow it up doesn’t matter. He introduced the idea of illegal entry into a bar to a class full of 5th graders. </p>
<p>By the way, my 15 year old D has been working as a musician/singer in bars for a few years. Son is also a musician who greatly admires the sub’s talents. If the sub was trying to inspire the kids, and let them know that music could turn into a career, there was absolutely NO REASON to mention the fake ID. Trust me, my D doesn’t have one & she’s been earning some nice cash. Either H, myself, or other parents of her bandmates are in the bar/restaurants supervising the kids while we enjoy a pint or a nice meal.</p>
<p>soozievt, I don’t think the yearbook issue is off topic. I think the root of the problem is examples of poor judgment in teachers. Whether innocently made or driven by an agenda, it’s something parents have every right to discuss with the teachers or administrators. In fact, it’s our obligation.</p>