<p>This is why the safety school is the most important on the application list.</p>
<p>There is an old thread on CC about Andison. <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/192395-no-acceptances-one-kid-s-story-a-year-later.html”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/192395-no-acceptances-one-kid-s-story-a-year-later.html</a></p>
<p>ucba I mean that everyone looks at the available data and agrees that the 3 schools are in fact “safety” schools. Grades stay the same but child is not admitted anywhere. I sometimes think that “safety” schools probably know that they are safety schools after reviewing a student’s file. So, isn’t it possible that all 3 could think applicant will not attend and reject accordingly? I know colleges are concerned with yield.</p>
<p>OP asked how common it is for a student to be “shut out”. Everyone has posted a story of a someone they knew who had that experience or something close to it, but anecdotes don’t tell us much. I don’t think there’s any way to answer OP’s question. Assuming high schools even keep that kind of statistic, it’s seems unlikely they’d disclose the information. </p>
<p>I think ucb should rework this (as advice) and get it on the hs or chances forums. Statistically, yes, you can get shut out from a list of competitive schools. Especially with holistic. How often, no idea. </p>
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<p>Well, that is the whole “level of applicant’s interest” game that makes schools using that as a criterion for admissions risky to use as “safeties”. (But not all schools use “level of applicant’s interest”.)</p>
<p>Re: andi’s son at <a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/192395-no-acceptances-one-kid-s-story-a-year-later.html”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/parents-forum/192395-no-acceptances-one-kid-s-story-a-year-later.html</a></p>
<p>Risky move applying to lists with no safeties the second time after getting shut out the first time (the less selective schools on the second list – Rochester and Case Western Reserve – consider “level of applicant’s interest”). Fortunately, he got lucky the second time, but I would not consider such an application strategy with no safeties to be a wise one (for either the first or second time).</p>
<p>Is the “level of interest” criteria on a college’s Common Data Set?</p>
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<p>Wow, we can have this discussion AGAIN. Yes, Harvestmoon1, look in section “H”. If students DONT show interest, they run the risk of getting shut out of those schools. But there is nothing stopping students from showing interest in a safety, and then the school can STILL BE USED AS A SAFETY. There are many ways to show interest. Obviously visiting, but if you can’t, then getting on the school’s email list, stopping to see the college rep at a college fair, going to a presentation if they have one in your city, or emailing admissions if you have questions that aren’t answered on the website are all ways to show interest that colleges notice.</p>
<p>I really can’t understand why you keep promoting the myth that a school that takes interest into account can’t be a safety. That is no more true than a school that takes standardized test scores into account can’t be a safety.</p>
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<p>Hmmm, perhaps that can be sifted out of the PVPHS results list found here:
<a href=“http://www.pvphs.com/pdf/CollegeAcceptance.pdf”>http://www.pvphs.com/pdf/CollegeAcceptance.pdf</a></p>
<p>Looks like some shut outs (for four year colleges) were:</p>
<h1>91: 3.50, 2280</h1>
<h1>229: 3.02, 1920</h1>
<h1>264: 2.70, 1380 (rejected at non-impacted CSUs despite meeting the minimum eligibility index – may have been missing an a-g course)</h1>
<h1>298: 3.05, no test scores listed (two waitlists out of two applications)</h1>
<h1>306: 3.31, 2250 (applied only to UCLA)</h1>
<h1>346: 3.15, 1550 (probably like #264)</h1>
<h1>352: 3.49, 1220 (applied only to one music conservatory)</h1>
<h1>354: 2.70, 1480</h1>
<h1>355: 3.16, 1590 (one rejection, one waitlist)</h1>
<h1>403: 2.29, no test scores listed</h1>
<h1>405: 3.20, 1500</h1>
<h1>416: 2.16, 1290</h1>
<h1>429: 3.70, 2040 (applied only to UCLA)</h1>
<h1>443: 2.73, 1580 (applied only to UCLA)</h1>
<h1>446: 3.62, 1760</h1>
<h1>465: 2.90, no test scores listed (applied only to USNA, waitlisted)</h1>
<h1>485: 2.16, 1700 (CC admission listed)</h1>
<p>There are also some others who appear to have gotten lucky despite application lists with no apparent safeties (such as those who applied to just one very selective school like Berkeley or USNA and got admitted).</p>
<p>But this high school may not necessarily be representative of other high schools in terms of how often students get shut out. In California, one can “shotgun” a lot of applications to UCs and CSUs with minimal effort (beyond additional application fees – no recommendations or transcripts needed, so there is no additional workload on the high school).</p>
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<p>Section C7 of the common data set, or the admissions tab for the college on <a href=“http://www.collegedata.com”>http://www.collegedata.com</a> .</p>
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<p>But it does seem that a lot of students treat their safeties as last-choice throw-ins that they are only marginally interested in, so they may not be the ones who will actually show interest.</p>
<p>But you give that advice all the time to students who do have time to show interest and in fact are out here asking about safeties. You make the blanket statement all the time that they can’t be safeties. Every one of my kids’ safeties took student interest into account, and they were admitted to them all. You are tarring all schools that take interest into account when in fact there are many great safeties in that pool.</p>
<p>You can’t phone in your application to a safety that does any kind of holistic admissions, but I never worried a bit about demonstrating interest at my kids safeties. We looked at our school’s Naviance data, they were comfortably in the green zone, no one with their stats had ever been rejected, and I considered them safe. I think the problem comes when people do dumb stuff like think Tufts is a safety for Harvard, or Emory is a safety for Duke. I haven’t heard of anyone not getting in anywhere from our high school, but I don’t think I would have heard about it if it happened.</p>
<p>Impressive data collection ucba. Mathmom, we are using Naviance as well and picking schools where there is only green around D’s data point. And the green is deep and plentiful. But the results are giving me pause as these are not schools that I would have thought, going into the process, would be safety schools. To me they are highly sought after schools (not Ivy’s) that have acceptance rates of 30% and under. We are working closely with CC at D’s school as well. Thinking we will add in state flagship after reading this thread. </p>
<p>Yes, I did also look at acceptance rates. The year my older son used RPI as a safety its acceptance rate went from something like 75% (self selected group) to 40% (Newsweek named it a New Ivy). But he got in, and he had a second safety which was not named a New Ivy. Younger son’s safety had an acceptance rate of 40% or so. He had another safety he was going to apply to, but then got into a very selective school EA, so he dropped it. 30% is uncomfortably low. Usually the state flagship application is pretty painless, so for many it may be worth putting that in the mix.</p>
<p>And how hard is demonstrated interest in the internet age? Nobody is telling you to get on a plane from Sacramento and show up in Storrs, CT to prove to the adcom’s at U Conn that you’re not “using them” as a safety. Write an email to admissions explaining “Why CT” and expressing regret that you cannot visit; ask if they send a regional rep to Sacramento and if so, can you meet with him/her, express your thanks when they respond that no, they are not taking their road show to Sacramento this year.</p>
<p>Jeez. Not so hard. Total investment- 10 minutes tops.</p>
<p>The only person I ever sort of heard of this happening to was someone who wanted to major in voice (opera) and so was applying to music conservatories. She was a good student from a private school and she had thought she had some safeties but surprisingly failed to gain a spot in them via auditions. She did have an actual safety at a four year school where she was majoring in some related field.</p>
<p>The guidance counselors I’ve known or heard of all seem very careful to make sure everyone has at least one state school on their safety list. Two years ago, I heard a Philadelphia suburban Catholic high school was telling many of its average students that they should no longer consider West Chester University (a nearby Pennsylvania public) a safety as some students were getting denied. It seems the recession had suddenly made West Chester much more competitive. The students were told they needed to add one of the others in the state system - e.g. Kutztown. </p>
<p>We met recently with our daughter’s GC. D attends a private school where most of the families don’t qualify for financial aid. The GC made some polite reference to finances and we confirmed that we wouldn’t be applying for financial aid. She then bluntly asked us if we had considered what the top amount we’d like to pay would be (we had and we gave her that number) and so we proceeded from there. I would think any GC worth her salt would do the same. </p>
<p>Our GC’s are pretty good at seeing that students have safeties,and preferably rolling admissions safeties, even though sometimes they (or, more likely, their parents) are shocked to hear that Penn State - UP or main campus at Pitt cannot be one of them.</p>
<p>I think what is much more common than the total shutout is the kid with too large a gap between the reaches and the safety. It’s not a tragedy to go to your safety, certainly, but I’ve seen lots of lists, both on cc and among my kids’ friends, that simply didn’t have enough match schools. Some people do seem to have the attitude, “If I can’t get into Harvard, I might as well go to State.” But that’s far from the only option.</p>
<p>A few years ago, due to budget constraints here in CA, many schools heavily constrained freshman admissions into the CSU and UC system. This hit many applicants by surprise and resulted in lots of ‘shut outs’. I saw lots of bright kids, sure they’d get into Cal Poly, SDSU and CSULB scramble to ASU or UNR due to their late application window. Most though went to their CC which was suddenly over-crowded - making a timely transfer difficult. With hindsight, I’m sure they’d have applied more broadly. </p>