<p>Yes, I’m sure there are many Greek houses which WELCOME plain looking, average student, poor, non-white, gay, non-Christian pledges. So many, in fact, that it’s shocking that the involvement in these organizations nationwide is so low.</p>
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<p>There is a subjective component to all of these types of activity. Haven’t you ever been surprised when someone makes/doesn’t make a specific tryout. I sure have. I don’t know why fraternities/sororities are singled out.</p>
<p>Right out of college I became friends with a girl in my internship program.She was from and had attended college in the northeast and disliked the Greek system and the people in it. I and another friend (different college,different sorority)in our program were the first sorority women she had ever actually met and she admitted that we were not at all what she had expected. She was pleasantly surprised.</p>
<p>Denise515, you should see my son’s frat. I believe it is dominated by Jewish students and engineering majors. They also have students of color. S is far from rich. They have a couple of kids from the track team, and a couple who are active with the musical theater group. In other words - they are not all good-looking athletic rich WASPS. In fact, if there are any in his frat who fit all those stereotypes, they’re in a very tiny minority.</p>
<p>Once when S was home and our family was playing Taboo, H had to get someone to come up with the word yarmulke. Out of this exchange we developed a new name for S’s many Jewish frat brothers: He-bros. When H was in a frat, they had a bunch of international students, including 3 from Peru. Whenever they were playing a sport or a game and someone got caught cheating, they’d say, “I’m not cheating! It’s Peruvian rules!”</p>
<p>Consolation is correct. Houses vary. Just like students vary, and colleges vary - so do houses. At a college with a tiny percentage of Greeks, perhaps all the houses fit the rich-jock-WASP stereotype. But at large colleges, and those with larger percentages of Greeks, there are jock-frats, rich-kid frats, geeky-frats, and no-one-can-quite-put-a-label-on-this-one frats.</p>
<p>@Lafalum84, @Consolation:
You claim that your experiences are the “exceptions”, but there is no denying that the vast, vast majority of frats do not have open membership to all who want to join. This is the crux of my objection. You can couch it any way you like, and describe the process using colorful and cryptic terms like, “rush” and “bids” and all that, but they bottom line is that it’s simply a bunch of 19-year-olds sitting in judgement as to the “social acceptability” of a bunch of 18-year-olds. That’s not what the college experience should be about. After you graduate, you have plenty of to to go live in a gated community and join a restricted country club.</p>
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<p>So “most” are not excluded? Why not “all.” Why should ANYBODY be excluded?
The college I went to has never allowed fraternities. The policy they have on this is succinct, clear, completely fair and I agree 100%. It’s as follows:</p>
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<p>Please tell me what’s wrong with this?</p>
<p>Who is to define what the college experience should be? How is it suppose to be different than the real life? People form cliqs from the day they are given a choice. When kids were younger, we could force them to invite everyone to their parties, but once they are older they choose who they want to associate with.</p>
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<p>Sorry, but as a Jew, I find this offensive. I’m not sure what sort of point you were trying to make, but your failed, epically.</p>
<p>@oldfort: Well then, I guess we just disagree on what college should be like. I think it’s a wonderful place to meet and socialize with new people from varied backgrounds and interests (one of the few times in your life that you have such an opportunity). You clearly think differently, so be it.</p>
<p>Soze, you are under the mistaken impression that being “socially acceptable” in the Greek world is hierarchical. A group of 19-year olds are choosing people in which they wish to share their time, their traditions, their experiences. Look, in order to join, the aspirant needs good grades, heavy involvement in extracurricular activities, a winning personality (which varies from house to house, campus to campus). In short, they are deciding would they like to live with this person. The process is open to anyone that pays a registration fee and goes through recruitment. It is true that not everyone gets a spot on some campuses. The organizations are about lifetime memberships and members generally take it very seriously when choosing someone.
Look, I know that you think that anyone who wants to join should. I say that anyone who wants to join is given the opportunity. Not every kid gets a part in the play, or on the team. And to discount social skills as a “talent” is live in a fantasy land. </p>
<p>For those who think all fraternity boys are rich white guys and all sorority girls are blonde Christians should look at the actual member photos on the chapter websites. Heck, I was a scholarship student, Pagan, political activist and I pledged at a competitive school. My sisters are a diverse group of women that came together for a shared experience. My openly gay nephew is in a fraternity at a Big Ten school and is completely accepted by his brothers. At the schools on my son’s list, the fraternity members are reflective of the campuses as a whole. After all, the Greek life at Beloit is not going to attract the same members at an SEC school, just as the two colleges attract different types of students.
All groups that are social in nature mutually select their members. Am I upset that my son was not allowed to be a Boy Scout because he didn’t meet their religious memebership? No, he found other activities. Is Greek life fantastic at all campuses? No. But I have been involved as an advisor at chapters on the West Coast, South and Midwest, and what I can say with confidence is that their is no such thing as a “typical” Greek member.</p>
<p>soze - your are very idealistic, and that’s fine, because you chose a college that was right for the experience you wanted. People in this country have the right to form any association they want. </p>
<p>Many Greek houses are not able to admit everyone who wants to join due to space (size of the hosue, number of manageable membership). It is no different than when you couldn’t get a reservation at your favorite restaurant, but you didn’t want to settle for another restaurant. </p>
<p>I don’t think we are going to convince one another on our views about Greek life. I don’t really love it or hate it. It is just one of many college organizations my kids could choose to participate. I just don’t understand why some people are so against it, or think it is the greatest thing.</p>
<p>I would just like to point out, it is now our kids’ college experience. We’ve had ours and we probably should allow them to choose theirs</p>
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<p>Really? It’s “no different” than that?</p>
<p>Really… are you sure?</p>
<p>Interesting… because most restaurants (that I frequent anyway) take their reservations on a first-come, first-served basis. In fact (and I’m not a lawyer, so I’m willing to stand corrected) if a restaurant was to use the same “criteria” for assigning tables that fraternities use for membership, they would be looking down the barrel of a big-time lawsuit.</p>
<p>Maybe we go to different restaurants, what can I say? I have been able to get a reservation when a restaurant is “full.” They give better tables to their favorite customers. How often do people get to choose where they want to sit in a nice restaurant?</p>
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<p>Perhaps, but I think that when sonny boy is spending north of 50 grand a year of my money, I’m at least entitled to opine on the subject. (and I did, and he disagreed with me).</p>
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<p>Yes, but if their definition of “favorite customer” was based on the same criteria that fraternities use, would you be ok with that?</p>
<p>@mizzbee
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<p>Yes, but in the case of a play or a team the assessment is being done (or at least should be done) by qualified professionals with protocols in place to insure fair and equitable assessments. Not a bunch of kids evaluating another bunch of kids to see if they are “our sort of people” using a process that by definition is veiled in secrecy. </p>
<p>If someone doesn’t qualify for a sports team, it’s because their athletic skills are falling short, not simply because the other kids didn’t “like” him.</p>
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<p>Favorite customer comes down to ability to spend at the restaurant, amount one tips, sometimes it is how good you make the restaurant look. Many restaurants even valet park the most expensive cars in the front, and put cheaper cars in the back. I am ok with it, some people may not be, but not everyone needs to eat at such restaurant. There are plenty of choices.</p>
<p>We don’t live in a socialist society. We have the right to choose who we want to associate with, where we want to eat, and how we want to eat (my idea of a good time is not eating at self serve restaurant or sitting next to someone with a dirty T-shirt). We don’t have to like everyone or everyone’s life style.</p>
<p>Okay, so it appears that you wish to discount these “kids” for having opinions of their peers, yet we allow them to choose their school, their friends, their jobs, etc. And how is it different from a job interview where someone decides if a candidate is “Our kind of people”? Surely you are not so naive to believe that the social part of an interview does not play a part of the job application process. Also, how can I discount the opinion of an adult (18+ years old- most admission committee members are juniors and seniors) only in this one particular instance? If I trust these childrens to make their own choices, I need to trust them to know their own organization well enough to choose people that they believe will positively reflect the values of the organization. I can meet someone, enjoy their company, like and respect them and still not think they are a good fit for an organization. </p>
<p>And since you may not understand the computer matching process that is used in sorority recruitment, I may think that a person is a good fit, but the other candidates are listed higher on the list. The sorority makes a preference list, the applicant rank their preferences, and sometimes the quota is met before the match happens. In other words I was the fifteenth highest on the ranking for ABC sorority, but I ranked them third, so by the time that the matches came up for ABC, they had met their quota with girls that ranked ABC higher. Depending on the ranking process, I may not get my first, second of third choice. if the women keep their options open, most will be placed (at all but a few places with bed quotas). I can’t expect a company to hire me just because I am qualified, I can’t expect to be a friend with someone just because I have many admirable qualities. What I can do is try, and not allow this decision (good or bad) shape my life.</p>
<p>An alternative to a Greek system would (to me) look something like the house system at Rice, in which every student is assigned to a residential college. (Caveat - it seems that with a shortage of spaces in residences, a minority of students live off-campus for one of the four years.)Parents and students turned off by recruitment policies at schools with Greek life, yet wanting the experience of belonging to that type of group, might want to look at Rice. </p>
<p>I myself can see many advantages of Greek life, yet I am turned off by the “popularity contest” involved in joining, in which (at most schools) some (including those who can become good friends but do not make the greatest first impression) are left out in the cold.</p>
<p>@ Soze, not to mention that the OP asked PARENTS how they feel about Greek Life. I assume that meant they wanted parents feelings about Greek life. I could be wrong.</p>
<p>As far as allowing our kids to choose, I’ve always encouraged them to avoid “group think.” That might be why this sort of ‘life’ does not appeal to them. They resist the idea of others defining who they are or what they believe. I love that about them.</p>