<p>This thread IS asking how parents feel about Greek life, but there is a difference in how we feel (keeping it to ourselves), and making sure our kids do what we want them to do:</p>
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<p>Geralization is also a form of “group think.”</p>
<p>Making a decision in whether or not to participate in Greek life is being an individual.</p>
<p>soze, I apologize. I meant no offense. I simply meant to point out that he has a large number of brothers in his frat who are Jewish, it is not all WASPS as was implied.</p>
<p>S’s Jewish frat bros thought it was funny. But I apologize for causing offense, it was not my intention.</p>
<p>@lafalum84: Nice to know that an evening of fun at your house consists of sitting around making fun of Jews. I’m not sure which troubles me more; the fact that you did it or that your son’s Jewish “friends” thought it was funny.</p>
<p>We were not sitting around making fun of Jews. We were playing Taboo. Have you ever played that game? It involves getting your partner to figure out a word without using any of the obvious words as clues. The word yarmulke came up, and it had to be figured out by the team without the use of the words head, Jewish, hat, and a couple of others. H used the word “Hebrew” because he couldn’t use the word “Jewish,” but the way he said it sounded like He-bro. We joked about H’s mispronounciation, which that evolved into a He-bro being your Jewish brother, and S has many of them in his house. There was never any “making fun” of anyone. That’s not how we roll at our house. </p>
<p>I apologize again, but I can see that I’m not going to be able to satisfy you. S’s frat brothers know him a lot better than you do. I’m sure they came up with a couple of Catholic or Christian jokes in return.</p>
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<p>Well I guess that makes it all OK. :)</p>
<p>I’ve been reading this because my S has chosen to join a fraternity. When I went to college my friends and I thought Greek life was uncool, but at my son’s small LAC the Greeks are actually service oriented and throw parties that the entire student body are invited to. They create a living environment that is a great alternative for some, and cheaper than dorms. </p>
<p>The world is not black and white, there are many shades of grey. Some Greeks are elitist, some are not. Each campus has personality, that’s why researching fit for the prospective student is so important.</p>
<p>To make a blanket condemnation of all Greek life is as silly as saying that all women are blonde and blue eyed.</p>
<p>@bopambo
If the fraternity is truly “service oriented”, why not open the membership to all comers?
Then surely they could do even more of their good deeds, etc. </p>
<p>My son’s fraternity slings the same load of BS as well, I’m not a buyer. You can perform all the community service you want without the need to have a selection comittee, secret handshakes, “dues” being kicked-up to the national office for god-knows-what, and all the other assorted nonsense that goes on.</p>
<p>So my D1 graduated from her university in May and is working at a job/profession coveted by many college students. She had an internship at her employer’s the summer before senior year. Her Managing Director, boss, told her–“Every intern has the qualification, they can do the job. But not everyone fits.” My D1 was very happy she “fit.” Some of her fellow interns, Yale and Penn etc. students, apparently did not and were not offered a job.</p>
<p>So, my point is, this whole “accept everybody” and “everyone should be included” is idealistic but not realistic. My D1 did not join a sorority. </p>
<p>Also, my S’s frat was/is diverse. He graduated, so I do not know how diverse it is now. Men of various religions, or none, various races and several gay men were members. I was actually surprised his frat had openly gay men and was pleased and surprised that they were “accepted.” One guy actually sent an email, after becoming a brother, telling everyone he was gay. My S said no one cared.</p>
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<p>For employment, you are quite correct.
for a college social organization, you are quite wrong. In, fact I have empirical evidence that the “accept everybody” policy works, since the college I attended does not allow any organizations that don’t have an “admit all policy” , and a good time was had by all to the best of my recollection.</p>
<p>^^^YOU may have thought good time was had by all, but I highly doubt it because there is no school where everyone is happy. At the same time, people probably chose your school because they didn’t want Greek life, that’s why fit is important.</p>
<p>Soze, we get it. You don’t like Greek organizations because they are exclusionary. Your point has been made.</p>
<p>Others have different opinions. </p>
<p>Please move on. You’re repeating yourself ad nauseum.</p>
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<p>It’s not.
In fact what you just described, when used in the context of employment screening is actually illegal.</p>
<p>I’m not crazy about Greeks because they are pretty much glorified and institutionalized cliques. I’m sure they do have some benefits (as well as downsides) for their members, but I’m not crazy about the impact on the larger community.</p>
<p>At my daughter’s school everyone knows the “ranking” and reputations of the sororities and fraternities, and I’ve even heard instances of members of the higher ranked ones being nasty to the lower ranked ones. Also, even though there isn’t a great percentage of Greeks at her school, especially in the first year she lost friends whose free time was completely usurped by their sorority, not an unusual thing. At some schools where there is a bigger Greek presence, we know kids who joined because they felt they couldn’t have a social life outside of the Greeks.</p>
<p>And although many things in life are exclusive, that seems to be a large cornerstone of Greek culture. The hazing for instance, illegal though it may be, happens at about every frat and sorority I’ve heard about. </p>
<p>That being said, if one of my kids wanted to join, I’d think it was up to them, and that there may be a benefit in it for them that I don’t see.</p>
<p>Mine has no interest in ‘Greek culture’ (which I snobbishly put in quotes because said child is actually interested in real Greek - aka classical Greek.) My contact with Greek life on campus has been generally negative. I’ve seen frats/sororities get money from the general student life fund for ‘leadership conferences’ that were merely parties. I’ve seen boorish behavior, including considerable destruction of property. I’ve seen sororities that ranked themselves and others purely on appearance. I’m not a fan of ‘Greek life’, but as long as 1) college monies are not used, and 2) laws, including college rules about hazing are not broken, individuals are free to do as they choose.</p>
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<p>Your poor son :(</p>
<p>Honestly, why did you not force him to attend your (clearly morally superior) alma mater?
After all, if he attended that school you would not be suffering the anguish you are clearly experiencing, and your son would not have to know how bitterly disappointed you are in his moral standards.</p>
<p>Of course, you could just stop paying his tuition and living expenses. That would show them.</p>
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<p>What 'empirical evidence" was proven? That a good time was had by all to the best of your recollection???</p>
<p>Haha --ok chill. </p>
<p>So some kids choose to join greek (my S), others (D1, D2. me and H)
are not greek joiners/members. But in the real world there is no “admit all policy.”</p>
<p>@soze
“In fact what you just described, when used in the context of employment screening is actually illegal.”
It is not illegal to choose a qualified candidate among equally qualified candidates that fits better into an organization. </p>
<p>Obviously there was something about your DS that made him want to join his fraternity. Clearly he believes in its goals and objectives, or he wouldn’t be a member, despite his parents obvious disapproval. Clearly if you don’t think your DS is scum, you may be able to swallow that fact that lots of nice young adults find value in this experience. It is okay that you don’t, but by being so vocal about your hatred of the fraternity system, you are sending the message to your own offspring that his values are morally inferior. I may not like all of my sons choices, but I would never degrade his choices publicly wither. If my son decides to become a born-again Christian, conservative Republican, I would be surprised, but I would never ridicule his choices, or declare that his organizations and affiliations were full of BS publicly. Of course, that is my way as a parent and a human being. I hope that someday you will be able to accept that your DS has found an experience in college that is worthwhile and leave it at that.</p>
<p>From my observations the greek organizations can be quite different at different schools. I pledged and ultimately joined a fraternity within a few days of being in college. Best decision of my life. The fraternities were “living groups”. We all lived in the house, did our own group cooking (cooks were a paid position), cleaned (sort of sometimes) and governed our house. Overall a very good experience.</p>
<p>My son had no interest in the fraternities at his school. They were primarily social groups and he was not into them. So be it, his choice. Given what I saw of them, would have been my choice also.</p>
<p>Daughter, a freshman, is looking at the sororities at her school. She is undecided. Some are purely social while some are residential. I told her it is her choice and I would support her either way as long as her classes are #1 priority.</p>
<p>My advice: You instilled certain ideals in your children. They are the ones who are living the college experience. Trust their decisons.</p>
<p>How about giving the “kids” who choose to try going Greek some credit for knowing what they’re getting into? After all, they aren’t kids at all, but rather young adults. They know “the rules” ahead of the game: some get in and some don’t. Life is full of disappointments, many of an arbitrary and capricious nature, but at least with the Greek system these young people know up front that it’s arbitrary and capricious. And still they choose to roll the dice. What’s wrong with that? Sometimes you win; sometimes you lose. But you take your shot anyway. It’s a life lesson.</p>
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<p>My son’s house does. More than half of the brothers I have met are non-white. My son is on virtually full need-based FA. I do not know if anyone is gay, but I did notice that they have a rainbow flag out front and my S is the reverse of a homophobe. The guys we met this summer did not seem to have any problem hanging out with S’s very obviously gay godfather. Members I have personally met include atheists, Sikhs, and Hindus. The appearance of the guys appears average, to me. I have no idea what their GPAs are, and I get the impression that it is only relevant in terms of not falling below the minimum required by the college to avoid being suspended. </p>
<p>I’m done with you and Soze on this topic. Prejudice and close-mindedness runs in both directions.</p>